Episode Transcript
FAWN: [00:00:00] Hello everybody. Welcome back to our Friendly World.
MATT: My Lord. I am such a dork sometimes.
FAWN: Why do you say that?
MATT: To just, we always do a soundcheck before we start, and my Lord, and then we hear back and I'm like, okay, really?
FAWN: What do you mean?
MATT: Well, just what I'll say in the inside of a quote unquote soundcheck, hello, hello, hello, hello.
FAWN: Like those answering machines. You know how people would get so awkward about their answering machines? I still one of my friends. Thank goodness she changed that. Even on her voicemail, she would shout and it hurt my ears to the point where I would never leave her a message like right before that, you know that message comes up about, please leave me a message.
Mm-hmm. I had to hang up quickly because it pierced the ear like she was shouting from mountaintop to mountaintop, and it sounded stressful Also. But you know how, remember how mm-hmm. People get funny about their [00:01:00] voice, but people also get funny about their image, you know? Hello Casey. Point me. People get funny about
MATT: their image, my lord, to the point where like, I've now gotten to a point where if I'm going to leave someone a message, I'm not gonna listen to it again.
Period. I know I, I, if I screwed it up, I'll rerecord, but other than that, I'm not gonna listen to it. I'm not gonna listen to it to make sure that I'm sending the right nuance. No, forget it.
FAWN: It's different over here on my end because I have to edit everything. Mm-hmm. So I have to hear my own voice. I had to, I had to go through a lot.
Like, I just almost as bad as not wanting to see pictures of myself. It was, listening to my own voice was hard. But I wish I could do it with my image, because now I'm totally fine with hearing my voice. I mean, I have to be, because that's mm-hmm my profession. Not the podcast, but voice acting.
Anyway, so today we're talking about, another episode we did a while ago. We did a show,
MATT: a, a vignette
FAWN: we talked [00:02:00] about, be interested, not interesting. And it was all about when you are meeting people, when and when you're together with someone, a friend, any anybody in a relationship. Any kind of relationship. Mm-hmm. It could be a new relationship. You just met someone, a stranger. They're all relationships to me.
Right. I consider them any contact, any interaction you have with another being. It shouldn't be all about you. I used to give them the whole spiel of exactly who I was, so like me or leave me like, let's just get it over with. So I told them everything about me, right. And it was all about me. And then I stepped back and I'm learning to ask questions.
Mm-hmm. To be way more interested in them right. Than about me. Right. So, really. [00:03:00] Really getting to a point where you're almost loving them, right, Matt?
MATT: Right.
FAWN: To the point where you just, you are interested in everything they have to say and asking them questions. And that's a beautiful way to interview somebody.
MATT: Right? Right. And and I was in a very similar state. I was like, you know what, if they are super into chess, take me on a ride. But what if they're super into, I don't know, let's, let's go way out there. And so I'm, I'm, my pendulum is sliding back and I wanna be Interesting. Well, not necessarily interested.
FAWN: Okay, so now we're coming to something in between. Maybe by going to the opposite extreme today. We've been thinking about it, and this is my perspective, Matt, let me know what yours is, but we've been talking about the nosy neighbors. Yes. Throughout [00:04:00] all the different cities and places we have lived in the nosy, nosy neighbor who really doesn't care about you, but just wants gossip.
Like they wanna know Guilty. No, you're not like that. Matt made me laugh so hard the first time I heard him say that we lived on Bainbridge Island. I think that's where it was Matt, right? Mm-hmm. You called yourself Mrs. Kravitz. Yes, I did. From Bewitch. Abna. I like, we, um. We, we made this beautiful house.
Like we made it as in like we bought it, we like completely redid it, and it was this beautiful, modern looking. We didn't have curtains on the windows. We had huge windows. We lived in the forest, but the neighbors were pretty close. And there was one particular, a neighbor who would go to the edge of the pop property line and totally listen in on.
What was going on with us, and then we'd go to the coffee shop in [00:05:00] town where everyone went and totally gossip about us. And so one day I, I point blank asked him, do you gossip about us? Do you talk to other people about us without, I mean, he looked kind of like shocked, but he didn't wanna lie. So he's like, of course I do.
Of course. So he did say to me the truth, you know? Mm-hmm. Because when I have
MATT: nothing to talk about. I feel small, so it's good to have something to talk about.
FAWN: Oh my God. I mean, please. So I forgot why I brought this up, Matt. Um, oh, we've been talking about nosy neighbors and then we ran into, then we lived near people who saw us in dire, dire situation like ambulance being called, blah, blah blah.
Never came out to help ever, but later on. Came out to ask what happened like a month later.
MATT: Mm-hmm.
FAWN: [00:06:00] Just, you know, so that kind of neighbor led us to talk about recently, like on our podcast about how they ask all these questions, so they're interested in you. But it, it, it, it became a gossipy thing. So now for me it's, it's a, it's a point of contention.
Like if you are more interested in me rather than being interested. Interesting. I'm sorry. If you're more interested in. Gossip rather than being interesting yourself is a total deal breaker. It's a major turnoff. I have nothing to do with you. I will have nothing to do with you anyway. So today we're talking about the opposite, right
MATT: and right, but, but by the same token, it's like I'm feeling very me-centric when I say.
Be interesting. Like I need, well, that's what I'm getting to. I need to be interesting.
FAWN: Yes. No, but that's where I'm, that's what I'm trying to say is you also have to be interesting [00:07:00] because if all you're doing, if all someone is doing, not you guys listening, but if you know, if all people are doing are asking questions, it just becomes a one-sided interview process.
Right? Right. Yeah. You're interested in me, but why? I feel we have to get back to talking about the other side, about really, you should be an interesting person for it to gel. For it to mix well. Right, right. Well, I don't know. That's what I have to say about it. I'm gonna turn it over to you, Matt.
MATT: Right, and, and I won't make
any, yeah, it's hard to argue with that. Absolutely. And certainly, at least in my world, if somebody wants to start talking about European chess and they're really into it, I can go on a ride with them because I like to think I'm broadly spectrum and I really enjoy, I used to really enjoy playing the Chinese variant of chess.
Who cares? But still, I [00:08:00] did, my Lord. And that might make me boring, but. I'll only talk about that with somebody who's really into chess or really into games or really into, no, that's probably about it. That's probably the only two instances I'm ever gonna talk about that with you.
FAWN: Well, it could be someone, it could be an example.
You could use an example of what's going on in that chess game as a life example, right. To someone like me who has no idea what this game is about.
MATT: Right. Or maybe as trying to explain part of maybe what I view is the. You know, the big differences between, you know, let maybe the western world and the eastern world.
Who knows, you know, who knows how this might come up, but yes, but I would be very careful to not necessarily show that out. But where I came to it from is I read an article, gee Gee Willickers. That's where I seem to get a lot of interesting ideas. But I read an article about this woman who was just started just sparking conversations [00:09:00] by asking people the most
not necessarily random questions, but she was asking them questions that were interesting to her instead of asking about something that she could perceive from the person she was talking to, just to see where it would go and she got like a 75% like engaged in really interesting conversations with people by literally whatever was top most in her mind.
So it was a very selfish conversation, which I thought was interesting 'cause it was selfish and yet giving because I'm now asking you a question that you respond to or not, or you just look at me like I'm just insane, and I've been on both sides of that. So one of the ones that sticks out is she literally walked up to somebody and said, what is your astrological sign?
Boom. It was like, let's run down a rabbit hole. But like there was nothing about this person that led her to believe that this might even be a good question to ask them. And what's interesting [00:10:00] is what I'll notice myself doing oftentimes is when I'm surrounded by people who are either nervous or uncomfortable or I get super comfortable, I get super chill, and then all of a sudden I'll start doing exactly what this woman was doing.
I'll start asking people really bizarre and interesting to me, questions to see what'll spark and what won't spark. So it's fun. I literally, sometimes I'll describe it as like, were you drunk when you were talking to these people? 'cause I wasn't. But sometimes when I start talking, I'll start getting ahead of myself like a little dog.
Ha ha ha, I'll, I'll start getting ahead of myself. Or I'll start thinking of, you know, boom and, and ping ponging and trying to infer and not infer. Traditionally tech, this usually happens in a world where I'm surrounded by people who are in my profession, very technical people who are all feeling very like, oh.
Uh, because [00:11:00] honestly, I think on some level there's so much imposter syndrome that runs around that people have lost the art of just trying to be comfortable with what they know and more importantly, don't know. And so when somebody literally comes out and says something they don't know. When I'm with my, when I'm with my little group, um, my little techie group, I'll say, these are the things that are I'm questioning today or these are the questions I have.
Does anybody know anything about dot, dot, dot? Do I, I find that leads to much more interesting conversations than just sitting back and saying, well, yes, uh, yes. My name is Matt and I do this and I work for at this company, and these are the tech stack and blah, blah, blah. It's very boring people. I'm not offering someone any real opportunities to connect with me, but I'm merely protecting myself is how I feel about it.
How do you [00:12:00] feel about it, fawn?
FAWN: I already told you how I feel about it. I used to hate, being around other photographers because it was all just tech, tech, tech, tech. And there was no substance to it. There was no emotion to me other than, look what I can do. f-stop this shutter speed that, um, you know, getting to I guess the math of it, which bothered me.
Mm-hmm. Because I was never good at math. You know, like right there is math involved. You have to do fractions, like complicated fractions to me between the distance from the shutter to um, the, it just, right. I. You know? Mm-hmm. I, I, I, I don't know, I don't know how to answer your question.
I mean, what do I think about it? I already told you what I think. Okay. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not a good person when it comes to [00:13:00] asking questions. I'm trying to get better. Mm-hmm. Because I'm trying to put more focus on the other person. Right. As far as with words? Mm-hmm. Because I'll, I'll do it quietly.
I've always done it quietly. I've always, um. Embraced people quietly. So for me it's different. You know, other people would say, well, you, that's why interviewing people was always, um, a very laborious thing for me on the podcast, I really dislike interviewing people or having people on because then they expect to be interviewed.
Mm-hmm. Quote, unquote interviewed rather than just having a conversation. Right. And then of course it has to be about whatever product they're selling or you know. Mm-hmm. Uh, and I'm not into that. I just wanna have a conversation. And they get offended if you don't. You know what I'm saying? Yes, they do.
So that's why we don't have really a lot of guests on, and when we do, they're pure friends. [00:14:00] Right. That are willing to just hang out with us. Um. I forgot what I was gonna say.
MATT: I just wanted you to answer it. It just felt like I was monologuing for too long, frankly, you know, and I took it to a professional viewpoint.
But even just, you know, be, be interesting. Being, being interested isn't in my mind, at least, it's not enough.
FAWN: I agree. I agree. It's, it's sharing and if you're just going to be one sided about it and be interested in them, then how can their, how can a relationship form when it's just all about them, right?
When
MATT: you're just interviewing?
FAWN: And then how can it keep on moving and growing if you are not growing? You are not interesting because let me tell you, if you tell me the same story twice, [00:15:00] I start looking at you like, is something wrong with them? I know, and I've,
MATT: over the course of 20 years, I've told you the same story more than once.
FAWN: Um, and I'll, and every time I'll tell you Matt. 15 years ago, stop. No, because it, it freaks me out. I'm like, is something wrong with this person? Like, why are they reliving the same thing and then genuinely starting from scratch with the same body language, with the same emphasis on things and the same pauses in the same exact
places that, to me, I'm like, am I hallucinating? Like is this deja vu? Do they think I'm stupid? I'm,
MATT: I'm guilty of this. And then,
FAWN: no, you're not that guilty. I do have a few stories, set pieces, but then it pieces gets to a point where I'm like, there's a problem here. Either they think I'm stupid or they don't remember, or the sad thing is they have rehearsed, they've rehearsed everything and this is their [00:16:00] only go-to.
To sound or look charming or whatever it is that they think they are by having this kind of conversation, it's very methodically planned and there's nothing behind it, so it makes me immediately. Stay away from that person. Right. And I mean, your family's like that.
MATT: My family's very much like that. And I can, I'll pray to it.
'cause I do have a couple of set pieces that are
FAWN: brilliant. No, I mean, I, I'm guilty of it too. I mean, how many times have I told the kids, Hey, like, I'll tell them about like when we see something I'm like. We lived there. They're like, "we know". Oh my Lord. Yes. Um, sometimes it's for emphasis, but that's not rehearsed.
It's like just bringing something up again, like as nostalgia, but it's not a full blown story. Right. That's different. And I don't think you'd totally go into the same [00:17:00] story with the same pauses and the same inflections, Matt, you don't, you don't do that. You better not do that. If you do, if you do, I definitely will be like, immediately I'll jump on it and say, what are you doing?
Why? True? Um, but let's see. I don't know if I answered your question.
MATT: You did. You did. But you know, just remember that there is onus on you if you take to heart, be interested. If you take that to heart, realize that it is still a conversation and there's still two sides to it, and that's important and, and, you know, be interesting,
FAWN: well then that's to me, one of the big reasons why people, uh, their relationships disintegrate is because you're not growing together.
You're not interesting. After a while, you're like, ugh. You wanna move on to something else, (Matt exclaims hayo) to someone else. [00:18:00] It's true. Ouch. What is that? Is that not true? No, it's, I'm talking about substance here. I'm not talking about leaving someone for superficial reasons, right? I'm talking about after a while, don't you feel like.
You are just occupying space or they're occupying space, right? And, but that kind of
MATT: starts to open up the, uh, a perhaps next subject, which is, you know, always be learning, be growing, you know, challenge your boundaries. Aren't they all challenge your beliefs and intermingled? They are. All of
FAWN: these things they
MATT: are.
But there's, there's a lot inside of that to unpack as well.
FAWN: That's all. Alright, well I can keep on going and I'll probably digress into other subjects. So is there anything else you wanted to mention? It's because
MATT: you're so darn interesting, darling,
FAWN: get outta
MATT: here.
FAWN: Stop
MATT: it.
FAWN: Oh, see, I know when you're also BSing me.
Oh,
MATT: I was actually being sincere. I'm a little hurt now. Really? Yes. Only a little. Because yes, I realized that it did come across as a little. Twisted.
FAWN: I don't know. It sounded sarcastic to me. [00:19:00] I'm sorry, babe. Sometimes you have that sarcastic tone, so I can't tell. 'cause you're always messing with me. Now.
You've got the tra, you've also got the kids trained to do the same thing, so I'm like, I don't know if you guys are for real or not. Oh, and you know what? I don't have time for it, so I'll, I'm just like, okay, I'll just walk away.
MATT: Fair enough.
FAWN: All right.
MATT: All right,
FAWN: well, don't end it like that. Love you sweet pea.
Love you. Um, love you guys out there. Thank you for listening. Let's see. Anything else? Okay. Have a beautiful, every day be well.
