How to Never Get Angry or Bothered by Anyone

How to Never Get Angry or Bothered by Anyone Fawn: [00:00:00] How do we not let people get to us? How can we not get angry and what's the MATT: thing? Just don't let 'em bother you. Don't get mad. Fawn: Well, it's hard. . I wonder why we do this as people, or am I the only one that does this? You could have a whole crowd of people say wonderful things about you. Things would be great. Things are great, but one person comes along who is terrible, and you just glom onto that vibe, right? Or what that person said that then will ruin everything. We had a garage sale a long time ago. We had a garage sale. Hadn't really had one ever. Ever. It was beautiful. I made it great and we put up huge, beautiful signs everywhere, like works of art MATT: with fringe on it. Fawn: With fringe, yeah. To get people's attention. And it is remarkable, like the culture around garage sales in America. I don't know if it's changed, [00:01:00] but like there is serial garage sale people that know what they're doing, like they try to come a few days before to scout out your house to see what you have to see if you, they could get something before you start selling it. There's a whole, like, they have strategies, anyway, um, I was selling something for so inexpensive. But one of the things I did not want was I didn't want any coins. I didn't wanna do change. Because, we had a baby. I was terrified about like, um, choking hazards. So everything I think was a dollar or more. Right? Mm-hmm. And this person came and it was such a successful garage sale. Everybody was so great, super kind, wonderful. But there's this one person that shows up and she was like, I'll give you, what was it, like 20 cents for it? I'm like, it's, it's a dollar and it costs like $30. [00:02:00] And she's like, I'll give you. 10 cents for it. I'm like, just take it. She's like, no, I'll give you 10. And I'm like, look, I don't have any change. I'm not dealing with coins. I'm like, just take it. If you really want it, it's yours. And she started to fight with me. And I asked her to leave. And then you come back with the baby because you went for a walk. 'cause of course I'm MATT: never there for these things. Fawn: You are never there when you're never around when, when people like, are crazy. Like, anyway, um, so you come back and my whole mood had changed and I was like, this is a disaster. I wanna just shut it down. I'm tired. I I'm, I'm done. I don't wanna deal with people. You're like, what happened? I'm like, I, I don't even. I just, I'm done. But, and I finally told you later, arch, he's, and you're like, you, so you let one person totally dictate your whole experience. I'm like, I don't want to, but I can't help it. Like, [00:03:00] so anyway, today's show is about that. How do we deal with that? The difficult person, when you get angry, when you allow yourself to get angry. When someone like that, who just is a, a very negative person. Someone who wants to fight, they wanna pick a fight. 'cause she, when I said, oh, it's yours, it's a gift, take it. She was so mean to me. Matt, she started yelling at, she just wanted to pick a fight. That's it. Um, and I said, get out of my home. Get off my property. You are in my space. Leave like it. It got ugly over nothing because she just wanted to fight. And I think I also wanted to fight back, you know, uhoh and I think that's the problem. I should have just been quiet and had silence and said no. And move on. Ignore [00:04:00] her. Leave. Bye. Like, I know, I know that, but when you're in the heat of the moment, it's really hard to deal with people when you're emotionally triggered, or if you are just, um, yeah. If you have a charge, if you, if you connect with that charge. Anyway, turning it over to you. MATT: Why are you turning it over to me? Fawn: Because Matt's been talking about, he's now a stoic, it's been two years now, I think, and he's like, yeah, we're gonna do a special series on the podcast. We still haven't, it's been over two years. I wanna say your whole stoicism kick. Well, MATT: it's hard because there was a lot of stoics, lot of different thoughts, lot, a lot, a lot of, I mean from the guy who was a slave. With a lame leg to the emperor of the Roman Empire. At one point, they were all stoic stoics. And I have to say stoics. What? And that's not what, I dunno. What're talking about, actually, I don't know what you're talking about. Epictetus Hepatitis was the first stoic, okay? And he was a slave. He was born a slave, [00:05:00] and he was lame in one leg and he got freed. He was the first, he was the first stoic. He is the one who lectured on the patio, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But he is the one who laid down the initial thoughts, but then they got adopted by other people and extended, and extended, and extended. It's not a, it's not an easy process to follow it because a lot of the works are very fragmented, but at the end of the day it's about what I have control over and what I don't have control over because I adhere more towards where James Stockdale was about being a stoic because he was a modern day stoic. So it's about things in my control and things out of my control, and as it turns out, sadly enough, there is very little in my control. It's really almost daunting coming to this conclusion, realizing how little control you have over anything. One of the lessons likens it to you're an archer and [00:06:00] you're gonna shoot an arrow at a target. Well, you have control over the bow. You have control over how much you practice. You have control over the arrow that you choose to use. You have control over everything that happens until you release the bow string. And from there, nothing is under your control. So the setup is all you. How it, how it is received is not, there could be a gust of wind, the target could blow over, um, you know, et cetera, et cetera. Fawn: And as far as people, then I have to, I can't control others. They are who they are. And I think, I think the fight comes in when we, um. We, we feel the need to be right. Like, in my case, I'm in the right. I'm like, this is a $30 pot. I'm charging a dollar. You want 10 cents and then you want change for it? No. Do you know what I'm [00:07:00] saying? Like, I can't, I don't have change, first of all, right? I don't have any coins on me, but, and I, and I had to prove her, right? So I, like, I engaged, I should have disengaged, I should have not try to prove I was right. All I could have said was no. So disengaging. Right. And also realizing again that you can't control other people and also your expectation of other people. I expect people to behave, civilly. Mm-hmm. I expect people to have some grace about them. I have these expectations of friends. Like, this is how a friend should behave. This is what a friend should do. This is what a friend is. And a long time ago, shortly before we started this whole venture with the art of Friendship, I had to come to terms with the fact that I expected more from people in terms of friendship than they had the capacity [00:08:00] to be, to give, to have. MATT: Right. Fawn: I had to let go of that expectation completely. People are the way they are, I can't control it. And if I want some peace in my life, I have to not engage. I have to let it go. MATT: Which is pretty darn difficult, to be honest. And I'm still working on this too. I mean, it's Fawn: sad. It's sad, really, MATT: Mm-hmm. It is. It is. It's really hard to stay disengaged. 'cause it wasn't just this woman coming up to you and saying 10 cents or 20 cents, it was probably Hmm hmm. And you were tired. And you were, you know, ready to call it quits, and she was looking at something, maybe other people had picked up and people had put back down. Fawn: I was a brand new mom. You were had just given birth. You're, you know, like you're, you're, MATT: you're under an interesting amount of stress and survival mode and everything else. And I also Fawn: took it personally like, this is not worth anything. And what, and she was, she was, [00:09:00] um, arguing with me over the fact that how dare you not have change? How dare you not have change at a garage sale. Right. This is your job. I'm like, no, I, I didn't, and, and I think I started to explain to her why I didn't wanna deal with coins. MATT: Mm-hmm. Fawn: I didn't have to, I, I could've just said, no, MATT: you could've. But oftentimes we strive to be understood. Fawn: Exactly. And isn't that the whole point of connecting to one another and having relationships is I wanna be heard, I wanna be understood. Mm-hmm. I'm hearing you, lady. You want something for 10 cents? I got it, but I can't do that. So. Isn't that counter counterproductive as far as having a relationship, having friendships? Well, what relationship were you MATT: ever gonna have with this Fawn: woman? Well, you never know what can, I'm just saying you can't be. Okay. This was my thinking back then. Mm-hmm. This is how I'm working now, is like, I'll just say no and be quiet, hopefully. [00:10:00] But, but the thing is that. You wanna be open with people. You never know where your best friend is coming from. Do you know what I'm saying? So my view back then was to be open to everyone. And I think that's what we've been saying over the past few years on this podcast, is you can't do that with everyone. You can't, MATT: you can't even do that with most people, Fawn: right? MATT: Surgeons law, 90% of anything stinks. 90% of people stinks. 90% of the things you do probably stink. I mean, welcome, welcome to life on some level. Right? But Fawn: that's very, disheartening when you're trying to make friends. Yes. And you wanna have a culture of, a community of friends mm-hmm that are family. If you have that thought, it's like terrible to say it's, is it Sturgeon's law? Sturge, yes. St. MATT: Theodore Sturgeon science fiction to say Fawn: that most things and people are. Terrible. Mm-hmm. 99%. 90, 90%. That's terrible. It [00:11:00] is MATT: terrible. But it also keeps you, to some extent, a little bit emotionally distant from the things you would be attempting to connect to. I mean, I'm very careful about the things I attempt to connect to because sometimes I connect to sorrow and I'm not happy about it. It's hard to get outta it. I do not accept delivery. Yeah, yeah. You know, and that can be, that can be a hard thing. We were, um, I was with our youngest and we went to, um, a place we normally go and, and the guy behind the counter, we know we were bantering and he told us a very sad story that had just happened in his life. And I was very careful to express to my youngest that, you know, we express sorrow. We're sorry this happened for him. And Fawn: you express compassion and MATT: we express a lot of compassion 'cause we really like this guy. We really like this guy. And then I said, but we don't have to carry this for him. We are not carrying this for him. Fawn: Yeah. And if we do carry it, then everybody is feeling bad. If you want to lift someone up, [00:12:00] you can't be in the depths with them. You are there to pick them up. So if you're all in the depths, it doesn't do anyone good any good, MATT: which takes us back to anger. We don't have to emotionally connect. At, at every moment with everybody, even the people that we like. And this was not somebody you liked shine them, Fawn: right? Right. They were very negative and again, wanted a fight. And probably because she wanted connection. Remember how long time ago we would, talk about martial arts? Yes. And we, we had this epiphany that every strike is an outreach for wanting connection, right? So the people who even abuse or you know, like that physical action unfortunately it's misguided, but it's the need. It's a primal need to be connected. It's a total complete, messed up disconnect Yes on how to do it properly, but [00:13:00] the only way they know is to hurt and, and that touching hurt, that, that strike right, right of violence is really on some really messed up level is a desire for connection, right with another human being, unfortunately. Mm-hmm. Like it's the most messed up way to achieve connection. It is connection nonetheless. Right? MATT: Yes. Fawn: So we don't choose that. We're gonna go the other way. So anyway, um, as I was. Trying to take notes for what we're talking about today. Mm-hmm. I heard you tell the kids, oh, mom's becoming a stoic. Mom's becoming a stoic. And I didn't have the time, but I wanted to like, take off my headphones and go, I am not, but it just, I did take some notes here, so like. Uh, another thing to do [00:14:00] I realized is like I was taking notes on what stoics do to detach your worth from other people's opinion, right? Because MATT: what do we have control over? We have control over how I feel about myself and the things I know about myself. Mm-hmm. That's it. I don't have control over how you feel about me and I don't have control over. I can influence maybe, but that's it. Fawn: And so there's opinion. There's words. Others' words, do not define your worth, and that's where you get emotional freedom is when you don't care. It's, it is liberating. Like who cares if someone thinks you're ugly? Who cares if someone thinks you're overweight? Who cares if someone thinks you're stupid? Whatever. I don't care. It is quite liberating. Then you can like just be comfortable and keep going. When you care less, when you're kind of careless in that way. Mm-hmm. [00:15:00] It is quite liberating, like. I, I breathe better. Yes. And I have more, energy. Mm-hmm. To focus on what I'm supposed to be doing. Yes. It is amazing. It's really liberating. A part of me kind of wants to get into that situation so I can say I detach, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm gonna stop caring. I'm gonna stick out my gut and walk around. Hell. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, ah, I'm comfortable now. Thank you. I have things to do. Focus my, all my energy on what I'm supposed to be doing. Right. Um, so that was cool. So I guess if that makes me a stoic, then I'm kind of going in. Mm. Um, and also I was learning to separate fact from opinion. Oh, is it a fact you're overweight? No. Is it their opinion? Yeah. Who cares? That's their opinion. We stupid. MATT: Then take it to the next [00:16:00] level. And you know, all of a sudden, you know, they think you're stupid. Okay, fine. What does that even mean? What does that not mean? Can I take an intelligence test to prove something? Fawn: Do you think though, this is happening because of, um, the need for connection? Like if people, um, say, oh my God, what you are this way, in that way, who cares? Why do you care? Is that kind of like the strike, like we learned in martial arts, how like people want to get into fights. Do you think that's a verbal version of wanting to connect? MATT: Yes, absolutely. I absolutely do. People, were genetically predisposed to wanna connect. We, we need to understand where you're coming from because if you're running away from a saber tooth tiger, I need to know, I gotta go run with you or something. I'm not gonna go running the way you just came from. So, yes, we do need to connect. Fawn: And then I wanna talk about, [00:17:00] speaking only when necessary, the whole concept of silence. Ooh, you know, silence for me usually is like fighting words or fighting silence. How do I explain this? Like, there are certain members of the family, whenever I speak. They say nothing. I ask a question. Crickets. It can go on for two minutes and then I'll say it again. Nothing. Or I'll say something and I will be completely ignored. So they're giving me silence. So is that their stoic version of not engaging with me because they, there's such hate towards me that they don't want to engage. So they give me the silence treatment, and then if I do say, Hey, you know, they're like, oh, we can't hear you. Like, oh, our, um, my hearing is aid is not working yet they hear everything else. It's always, always me [00:18:00] that they're not hearing, you know what I'm saying? Or if they do hear me, it's when I'm in another room and it's an on a phone call and they heard me in another room very casually talking to one of our kids. They're like, fawn, what did you say? I was in another room, Matt, MATT: that could be them trying hard not to engage or not deep in, Fawn: but that's what I'm saying. It's kind of like for me. Mm-hmm. That is fighting right there. Right. So then I started to do the same thing. So now quite literally, they haven't heard from me in a very long time. I don't speak ever, so I don't know. To me that could be. Fighting as well, and, and there's energy involved still. Even though you're silent, even though the stoics were saying silence is key, just be silent. I don't know if I agree with that, Matt, because in that silence there's lots of, animosity, there's lots of triggering, it is like speaking like if you're silent when [00:19:00] someone you love needs to be spoken up for, protected, that is just as bad as being an evil person doing terrible things to this person. MATT: That's true, but we're not, you're not talking about that. You're talking about how when you're in the midst of a confrontation, they're quiet. Fawn: Not even a confrontation, just something you don't agree with. Is that, is that also a confrontation? Anything can be a confrontation if it's not pleasant. Is that right? Right. Yeah. Okay. Alright. MATT: Yeah, and And they don't wanna make more comments to get you more upset. Maybe they're withdrawing. I mean, for me, Fawn: but to ignore a person completely every time. MATT: Well, now you're talking about the in-laws, right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I don't know what's going on in their heads. Because I've chosen a long time ago to disengage from that. So if I try and connect to that, [00:20:00] it's not ultimately gonna be healthy for me. And I know this because having tried to connect when I were younger, Fawn: right? MATT: So I don't connect, you know? And I only tell them things that have no power over me. Fawn: And that's another thing that I was learning, trying to figure out stoicism. Mm-hmm. Is that, and this is what you do really well, you try to understand the other person. Right. That's another, trick is, okay, one of the things you can do is be quiet, not engage, remember your self worth. Okay. Not attach, but try to understand the other person. Mm-hmm. You do quite well and yeah, I mean, I usually try to do that, but it doesn't stop my rage sometimes, MATT: and that's just it. Where does the rage come from? Fawn: That's a good question. I don't know. Like, okay, so the other week we were talking about how the neighbor, the [00:21:00] kid, MATT: mm-hmm. Fawn: Who's not a kid, he is like a fully ground man, goes into our mailbox and then pound our door really hard. And then I called, I said, please stop this. And they hung up on me. Mm-hmm. And so it happened again and again. And then finally I saw them in the yard. And from across the way I was yelling, you need to stop this right now. Mm-hmm. MATT: And so Fawn: it, it turned into a, a, a shouting match. 6:30 AM 6:30 AM So, I don't know, I don't know where the rage really comes from. We're you, you look like you have the answer, so can you tell me? I MATT: don't have the answer to that. Fawn: You MATT: look like you knew the Fawn: answer. MATT: No. I know the zen parable that talks about anger, but that's beside the point. Fawn: What is that MATT: master and a student are talking and, and the student is talking to the master and, and, and kind of the zen Buddhist world, we're living in a world of illusion. Nothing is real here. Which is a fun kind of area to walk through. And so the student is trying to say, Hey, yeah, we're living in a world of [00:22:00] illusion and everything's illusion. So, you know, what are we doing? Why are we bothering? And then the master says something to piss him off. 'cause they do that sometimes. And, and the student is, is getting all like heated and the master's. Like, if this is a world of illusion, where's your anger coming from? And ultimately when I dwell on that, 'cause it's a cone, you're supposed to dwell on it. It comes from me. It only comes from me regardless of whether or not the world is illusion or not. I can't pierce that, but I know that anger comes from me. Fawn: That is true. I normally would've not shouted at this neighbor, but I was dealing with a lot and I was on overload. And I really was about to blow. Mm-hmm. Either crying, having a meltdown, and yeah. And, and it's like a volcano eruption. It's just building it, it's a force that needs to be released. Right. [00:23:00] And if, if we don't have the opportunity to take care of it, to let little puffs of smoke come out mm-hmm. There will be an explosion. Right. Okay, that makes sense. MATT: See, and there you go. And what happened? So of course I came out blustering as I do, we already talked Fawn: about this, the other episode, MATT: what I said, I afforded her the opportunity to express herself. And she's like, well, we have a reward board. And you know, we're trying to watch him all the time. And she wanted me to say, oh, okay, that's good. You're doing good. 'cause she wanted validation. Mm-hmm. And I said. I don't care. Fix it. And she said something else and I said, fix it. And I walked away because ultimately speaking, I control me. I do not control her. She understands how I feel. She understands my desires, and I don't care about anything else with regard to her. And that sounds so callous. I sound like [00:24:00] such an a-hole, but guess what? Oh, well. Because I can only control how I feel about me, how I am, Fawn: and we're also trying to fix our stuff in our circle. So now what we, we have to deal with your stuff. I'm not taking responsibility. Right? But then it, but then her household, right? Anyway, I don't wanna talk about it. We're, but anyways, we're, I don't wanna bring that in. We're, we're MATT: doing our best to not be a-holes here, but you know, there are limits. Fawn: Welcome to our friendly world, but how do we make it friendly? MATT: But knock on wood. Things have gotten better. She heard me and she understands that this is a problem for our family. So Fawn: it's interesting she heard you but not me. Interesting. I'm just saying. Okay. Matt's smiling. Alright, I think that's it for me this week. Anything else you wanna add? MATT: Nope. I think I'm good. Fawn: Okay. I hope that helps you guys control MATT: what you can control, which is only your own [00:25:00] perception of you. So in my mind, again, inner Popeye have a clear understanding of who you are, what you are, what you can offer, what you do offer, regardless of how the world receives it, and regardless how the world reacts to it. Those two things are unimportant. All right. Fawn: Can I add one more thing? MATT: Uh, add whatever you wish my love Fawn: people are who they are, not who you want them to be. MATT: Truth. I Fawn: mean, I had to learn that the hard way. Okay, that's it you guys. have a beautiful every day try. Talk to you soon. MATT: Be well.