Episode Transcript
FAWN: [00:00:00] Hi everybody. Welcome back to our Friendly World. Hello. How's it going?
MATT: It's going okay.
FAWN: Hmm. Um. Matt, can you repeat that phrase? Whether it's our wedding cake or some website we're looking at, or computer program, what is it that you always say,
MATT: okay, this is what I say now it's delicate and you gotta tear it apart, and I just throw it out there, I realize.
But the best user interfaces are invisible.
FAWN: At the beginning of our relationship, you would say this all the time. I would. And over the years we've been together, there are more and more examples of why this is so beautifully perfect. What you say?
My simple examples, a non-techie would be of our wedding where everybody kept saying, don't worry about it, which now to us are fighting words because it means definitely worry about when someone says, don't worry about it. Like [00:01:00] seriously. They ended up being people who we totally had to worry about their ethics, their work ethics.
Everything was not okay. And you used the example of our wedding cake, our wedding baker, because we never had to think about him. We told him what we wanted. We tasted stuff. Yes. And we're like, oh, this is lovely. Thank you. And we never had to worry about it. He was invisible.
MATT: And I remember when we said, oh yes, we're getting married here. He's like, I know it. That was it. That's all he said. I know it.
FAWN: There was no fuss. There was no drama and it was seamless and quiet.
MATT: I have no idea when how. But
FAWN: he got the job done. He could use a
MATT: Star Trek transporter to send it. Doesn't matter.
FAWN: Like he just took care of everything. There you go.
MATT: Somebody going down the road in the moped, doesn't matter.
FAWN: We don't even know. But he took care of everything. We didn't have to worry. And then how do you explain it with techie stuff? Please be patient. This comes back [00:02:00] to relationships and friendships.
Okay.
MATT: Well, every once in a while I'll get really annoyed by something on my computer because if it's not immediately evident how to do something, you done screwed up. And some things are hard and there are steps you have to go through, be it because of legalese or whatever, but, and this just happened to me recently, I have to unlock my phone and enter in my unlock code from my phone to connect to work two times at least.
Same code within 30 seconds of one another. Things like that annoy me because you already know it. Just ask me for it. Leave me alone. Mm-hmm. It's unnecessary. It's like it should just, it should just be there. It should just work. It should just be easy to do and I shouldn't need to think or get frustrated.
FAWN: Well, we were having this conversation at three 30 in the morning. Just a couple nights ago because I had the best session of my life working with someone that [00:03:00] was coaching me with voice acting, and she's amazing. We were talking about everything, photography, voiceovers, but we were talking about how really, like you do your job when it's not about you.
MATT: In voiceovers for sure.
FAWN: Right.
MATT: It's like being a good extra on tv.
FAWN: Oh my God. That's what she said.
MATT: You're not,
FAWN: wait Matt, I didn't even tell you that, but she brought up this example of a bartender. If you're being a bartender and if you're a little too much being a bartender, you're taking, you're stealing the scene.
You are, see, you're so psychic. That's, she totally brought up that like as an extra. That has his eyebrows raised, like mm-hmm. Well, I
MATT: just read an article about a guy who has been literally an extra on everything, and at one point he was the doctor on three different soap operas in England. Like every soap opera filmed in England.
He was a doctor. As an extra.
FAWN: Mm-hmm.
MATT: Because he didn't steal the scene. He wasn't [00:04:00] too pretty, he wasn't too ugly. He just was there.
FAWN: Right. And I was talking about, as a photographer, I reached a point in my career where I was like, you know what, it's not about me. So let me be all business and photograph for amazing architects.
Amazing. Whoever it is. And it's about them and their work, not about. How stylistically and artistically I can create a photograph. It was about their work and getting their stuff done.
MATT: Mm-hmm.
FAWN: It goes with everything though, right? A baker, you're here to nourish someone, give them something that their body needs.
MATT: Yes. But there are points in time where it needs to be the showstopper. Needs to be the thing. But yes, I totally agree.
FAWN: Yeah, for special occasions,
MATT: right?
FAWN: But for the most part, we need to be there and it shouldn't be all about us.
So now taking it to having a good relationship with someone, whether it's family, well, I consider friends, [00:05:00] family, but when it comes to our people, how do we do that? Do we stay invisible in a way
without giving up our identity and our uniqueness and what we have to offer creatively? I in, in a way, you have to be selfless,
MATT: right? I see it as there needs to be an interplay where when, when Harry met Sally, neither Harry nor Sally dominates the scene. They interplay, they mix, they mingle. They, there's no, this is the star.
It doesn't happen. They need to play off of each other in the same way friends need to play off of each other, and when one friend clearly dominates that's where things start to get not as friendly as they should be, in my mind.
FAWN: Right.
MATT: So when I was young. Because I'm still young, but when I was young, you know, I, my friendships in like elementary school, in junior high school, at the [00:06:00] beginning of, of even high school, it was very much I was. I was more in the background. I, we did what they wanted to do. We explore, the subjects we talked about were generally the subjects they wanted to talk about.
And, you know, that's what I thought, that's what I thought, I guess, friendship was. 'cause I didn't really spend a lot of time thinking about it. It was always like we went to their house or they had an idea and so we went ahead and did that as opposed to it, having that interplay and the older ish I get, the more I really appreciate the interplay.
It's like you're coming to meet me where I live. I'm coming to meet you where you live, so that we can really understand each other. So we can really then enter into much more of a, as symbiotic and growth-based relationship. Because one thing I have to say, which is almost sad, but like friends, I had an elementary school that carried on into junior high school and high school,
I wouldn't say [00:07:00] we grew, which is absurd on the, in the face of it. Because there is so much growth between like the age of like 10 and and 15, but we didn't, you know, it was only after I was almost free from that relationship. Oh my goodness. Free from the relationship I was able to grow and be and realize who I was and grow into more of a me thing.
I wouldn't say I wasn't growing before, but it wasn't the rapid fire, it wasn't the the big leaps and bounds I think personally.
FAWN: But taking it back to the user interface.
MATT: Yes. Ooh, so you're taking it to the computers?
FAWN: Well, no, not not just the computers, but when something works, it works so beautifully and invisibly that.
You forget. You forget that it's valuable and something that is mastered and something that is a well-oiled machine in a way. And it goes with [00:08:00] our relationships too, and stepping back, thinking and appreciating the people that don't offer such chaos. And are simply almost invisible.
I mean, you can say that about certain parents, like everything gets done and you tend to not appreciate the people that do so much for you. And it's not just parents, but like friends sometimes it's the silent heroes. It's the quiet. The quiet ones that do stuff without asking for much fanfare with the, you know, there's not a parade
and in a, in a very noisy world at the moment.
MATT: True.
FAWN: I think it's really important for us to look around and find the quiet user interface, interface, or, how do you Say it again? Yes. User
MATT: interface. How you interact with the computer, with the program, with the person, with the world. Mm-hmm. Being, being in a quiet space because, you know, you're right.
'cause you
FAWN: only notice the things when they stop working or they don't work very [00:09:00] well. Right. That's when you notice them.
MATT: Yes. And, and honestly, it, it seems like I'm always surprised, um, you know, whenever I'm in an interesting situation. Let's leave it there. But it's, it's the quiet people I've, I've met along the way
who are the people who reach out? Who offer help, who tangibly offer help. Mm-hmm. Be it friendship, be it just an ear, be it a lot of things. And it's usually those people who aren't flashy because there's no, it's, it's, there's no, not necessarily no, but there's little style, lots of substance.
Again, that's what a good user interface makes. Lots of substance. No, on some level, no style. You don't notice the style.
FAWN: We can take that back to our martial arts training, right. The most skillful martial artists were the quiet ones. The ones that didn't have the flashy muscles. Right,
MATT: right.
FAWN: The ones that didn't move with like [00:10:00] fancy movements.
But in the slightest lift of a finger,
MATT: right. Threw down. I mean, Bruce Lee was just as fast as you can.
FAWN: Well, I'm also thinking about O'Sensei
MATT: Right. That is true too.
FAWN: An old short little man that could throw all these big grizzly guys across the room without barely moving, right. To the point where it looked comical and staged.
But again, quiet. Without flash or fanfare.
came across a, a portion of, um, this book that I was reading, I thought I was getting like a super heady book on. Life and investing. I wanted to learn more about things and I ordered this book from the library and it comes and they called me. They're like, your book is here. I'm like, oh boy.
Oh boy. I thought I was gonna go pick up this like 600 page book, like a heady book. [00:11:00] It's a children's book. Sweet. It's like a children's picture book, but it has like 160 something pages in it. So it's not quite a children's picture book, but that's how it is. That's what it looks like. It's Principles of success by Ray
dalio. I don't know. Do you know who he is? No idea. He's very famous. Anyway, Ray, and there's this one page and it said, if you can look at things with the help of others who can see what you are blind to, you'll see much more than you can alone.
I know we're talking about user interfaces and the quiet things that work, but, veering a little bit off subject I also wanted to bring up that in this moment where everyone is experiencing a lot of confusion and fear and all of this, and uncertainty. Which happens all the time.
We go through waves. Life has waves. Right. But it seems like we are [00:12:00] experiencing similar waves as as a whole planet,, because we can hear each other's news. Mm-hmm. From across the planet, on the other side of the planet. So we're all going through the same things at the same time, and we can all feel each other's pain at the same time.
MATT: Right.
FAWN: so in moments where we're all experiencing some sort of hardship and we can't see straight,
it's really good to open yourself up to find the right people so you can see together because everybody sees something that you don't see. You're seeing something that someone else can't see, and sometimes it's something that you think, this is the, this is the way it is, this is the truth. And you think, well, maybe they're being brainwashed.
You may find that you are being brainwashed and they're seeing the truth and it, it will flip the next hour or the next day, and it'll be the other way around. So now more than [00:13:00] ever, I think it's really important for us to find your people and all. I believe what you have to do is just wish to find the people and they will come to you like a magnet and you can see together.
I know this is, a different subject than we started off with, but it's all about seeing and not seeing, sometimes not seeing is good because you're not distracted, but sometimes you need to see something that you should be seeing and you aren't able to see it and you need to see it
MATT: and you need to get out of, sometimes you have to get out of your own way to see it, and sometimes you have to lean on those around you to help you see it.
FAWN: You're in a room surrounded by books, but they may not be the language that you, you know, the answers are right there, but you have to step into them.
We can talk about it next time. We need each other.
MATT: We do.
FAWN: But we need the right each [00:14:00] others. Right, right.
MATT: And we also need to be open to the things that they might or might not be telling us.
FAWN: Some people are just wrong though.
MATT: Pray on it.
FAWN: Yeah, that's what I was saying. You have to ask for the right people for you to come together with the right people, whether it's, you know, wishing for your true love to come in, your best friend to come in, your family, that you've always wanted to form all of that.
If the desire is in you, it's going to happen. It's coming. You've probably crossed paths already, but again, like you're in that room and you're not able to see it. But in the perfect timing, it will happen. That's it for me, you guys. I apologize for my low energy. I'm really beyond tired.
MATT: I'm sorry, sweetie.
Okay, everyone. Okay, be well.
FAWN: Have a beautiful every day. Bye.
