Episode Transcript
Resistance and Isolation
[00:00:00] FAWN (2): Hello.
[00:00:01] MATT: Hello.
[00:00:02] FAWN (2): Hello. Welcome back, everybody. I'm going to read a little chapter,
[00:00:07] Ready?
[00:00:07] MATT: Ready.
[00:00:08] FAWN (2): The War of Art by Steven Pressfield. Resistance and isolation. Sometimes we balk at embarking on an enterprise because we're afraid of being alone.
[00:00:19] We feel comfortable with the tribe around us. It makes us nervous going off into the woods on our own. Here's the trick. We're never alone. As soon as we step outside the campfire glow, our muse lights on our shoulder like a butterfly. The act of courage calls forth infallibility, that deeper part of ourselves that supports and sustains us. Have you seen interviews with a young John Lennon or Bob Dylan? When the reporter tries to ask about their personal lives, the boys deflect these queries with withering sarcasm. Why?
[00:00:54] Because Lennon and Dylan know that the part of them that writes the [00:01:00] song is not them. Not the personal self that is of such surpassing fascination to their boneheaded interrogators.
[00:01:08] Lenin and Dylan also know that the part of themselves that does the writing is too sacred. Too precious, too fragile to be redacted into soundbites for the titillating of would be idolaters, who are themselves caught up in their own resistance.
[00:01:28] So they put them on and blow them off.
[00:01:31] FAWN (2): It is a commonplace among artists and children at play that they're not aware of time or solitude while they're chasing their vision. The hours fly. The sculptress and the tree climbing tyke Both look up blinking when mom calls Supper time.
[00:01:48] Okay, I'm done. Okay So again, that was Resistance and Isolation from the book The War of Art by Steven Pressfield
[00:01:57] MATT: You know, maybe it's because I was [00:02:00] young and naive way back in the day, but we're talking about nervous being on your own I can remember so I went from high school. I went to UC Santa Cruz now Apparently my high school has had a Nobel Peace Prize winning or Nobel Prize winning Laureate or whatever
[00:02:18] FAWN (2): really,
[00:02:19] MATT: but I don't believe it I went to the site recently enough and they were bragging about that.
[00:02:25] I don't believe it because we were all dummies You And maybe that's just the condition of, like, the 17, 18 year old, but we were all dummies. But, I went from my high school to UC Santa Cruz. I swear, it's still a singular moment frozen in my head, when, like, they had you fill out, where are you going, and then they matched, you know, then they printed out a list that said everybody was going to the same school as you.
[00:02:49] I was so happy nobody was going to my school. Oh my God, I was happy.
[00:02:55] FAWN (2): Yeah, you want to get away from that. I mean, for me, that was prison. I was trying to escape. [00:03:00] Well, it's,
[00:03:00] MATT: it's not that it was prison, because I had my, I had my friends, but everybody who I was in my little college prep classes with,
[00:03:09] mmm,
[00:03:10] MATT: I didn't want to hang out with these people.
[00:03:12] I didn't want to be close to these people. I didn't want to be even in the same city as them after I got out of high school.
[00:03:20] FAWN (2): Was your school the same as mine? I mean, we're both technically from LA, but you're not really. Very LA. Thank
[00:03:26] MATT: you. No,
[00:03:27] FAWN (2): you're so not LA. Oh my
[00:03:28] MATT: God. You can't be more L. A. than me.
[00:03:31] FAWN (2): No, I was more L.
[00:03:33] A. than you.
[00:03:34] MATT: No, you were West L. A. You were not L. A.
[00:03:36] FAWN (2): Well, that's just it. West L. A. is, it's its own phenomenon.
[00:03:40] MATT: And I was L. A.
[00:03:42] FAWN (2): Yeah, but you're in L. A. that doesn't really count.
[00:03:43] MATT: Hectic.
[00:03:47] FAWN (2): No, because people from West L. A. think it's the center of the universe, right? Yes. And that's why it has such the bad rap that it has.
[00:03:55] But anyway, what was I saying? Oh, I was gonna ask. [00:04:00] Did you Were you all pumped and primed to go to all the big UCs and the Ivy League? Nope. See, in West LA we were. Yes. So, if you didn't go to the UCs And the good UCs, not the party UCs. Like the one I went to. And for those listening in other countries, like, the ones that were ideal were like UCLA, USC.
[00:04:22] MATT: UCLA, UC Berkeley, UC Davis. UC
[00:04:25] FAWN (2): Berkeley. UC Davis was still like a party school.
[00:04:28] MATT: They were a little farmy, but they were, they were, they were serious. They were serious. Yeah, but
[00:04:32] FAWN (2): Davis was not. They were agricultural. I'm just telling you from my perspective of my high school, the way they were like pumping us to go into these things.
[00:04:40] You didn't
[00:04:40] MATT: want to go to UC San Diego, UC Santa Barbara, UC Santa Cruz.
[00:04:45] FAWN (2): Well, UC Santa Barbara was like not even spoken of. Exactly. That's
[00:04:49] MATT: how much of a party school it was.
[00:04:51] FAWN (2): No, it was not a party school. Oh my God. Isla Vista? Oh my goodness. No, UC Santa Barbara. No. Santa Barbara? UC Santa Barbara was not considered a [00:05:00] party school.
[00:05:00] San Diego, yes. I don't even know because I, you know, I escaped all of that, but, but it was just interesting. Anyway, what were we saying?
[00:05:10] MATT: I said I was not nervous to embark upon a new adventure all alone.
[00:05:15] FAWN (2): Well, also those people who were primed to go to these things and they were taking all the classes to that group of friends or that group of that culture.
[00:05:26] Was definitely something I didn't want to be around because it was so, um, What's the word for it i'm looking for they had you had an arm's length like You didn't belong.
[00:05:38] MATT: Right. Yeah, it was very territorial. It was very clicky. It was very
[00:05:41] FAWN (2): perfect description, Matt. Territorial, right? That whole, fighting for a piece of bread.
[00:05:47] MATT: Right. And the thing is, is it was also scarcity mindset. Exactly. Because if you got in, that means maybe my friend didn't, and my friend didn't get in. It was your fault.
[00:05:56] FAWN (2): And also the elitism that came into it. Like, I'm [00:06:00] better than you. Right. So I just automatically was like, I'm not even gonna try right.
[00:06:06] I don't even want to play play that so, I went my own way But I think what Steven Pressfield is talking about Is kind of like what we were talking about last week, you know the bad voice that comes in to discourage you and the more success that you find whether in relationships or Doing your heart's desire in the world like your creative endeavors You And again, it has to do with friendship too, like when you meet someone or your significant other, like your partner in life, there is that voice that comes in and says, I'm not this enough.
[00:06:42] You know, I'm not enough or I'm not, I'm a bad person or I'm not, I'm just not good enough or whatever, whatever voice to distract you and to, intimidate you and to discourage you from following that highly. vibrant path that is [00:07:00] in you. It's discouraging you from going there. Why? Because isn't that the world we live in?
[00:07:05] It's very black and white. Yin Yang. There's the spiritual, and also the physical, right? There are always two opposing things.
[00:07:16] MATT: Where there should be three, but yes.
[00:07:18] FAWN (2): Well, I mean, you're a spirit body and you're, you're also a physical body and both compete for one another. Yes. Right? The good and the bad.
[00:07:27] All of that. So, it's a natural thing that occurs, you can't, you, what you were saying last week is you can't, no, I was saying you can't get rid of it, so you have to say, hey, you're going to be in the back seat, the voice of fear, for example. You're not allowed to drive, you're not allowed to touch the radio, right?
[00:07:47] But you were saying, get that thing out, and I'm like, yeah, you're right, let's get it out of here, right? So then I, I was talking to the coach after that, my business coach and she [00:08:00] said I'm sorry, but it's impossible to get it out there you can't and you know what she's right because like, looking at it religiously, there is, like, we're spiritual beings, but we're in a physical body.
[00:08:12] Yes. It's not like you can get rid of one while you're living. They coexist. So you have to figure out how to deal with it. I don't know. It's a conversation, because every time I listen to you, And your argument, I'm like, yeah, you're right, Matt, and you're always right.
[00:08:27] MATT: Hey o! Okay, first of all, there's a, there's not a dichotomy, it's a trichotomy. There's a body, a mind, and a spirit, and we need to cultivate all of these things. However we cultivate them. No,
[00:08:40] FAWN (2): no, no, I'm talking spirit and mind. Well, and then there's
[00:08:43] MATT: physical.
[00:08:45] FAWN (2): That's the body. What did I say? I'm talking spirit and physical.
[00:08:48] You were talking spirit and
[00:08:49] MATT: physical, but you ignored the mental. People always pick two, they don't pick three. Okay?
[00:08:55] FAWN (2): I don't know. Ooh. You know what, I have to talk to And the thing is,
[00:08:58] MATT: it's about [00:09:00] re I hate saying reframing, because everybody likes to say that, but if you're afraid, what does that mean? And you have to really, investigate what it means.
[00:09:09] And one of the best definitions that I've seen is you're afraid because you're doing something you've never done before. How exciting.
[00:09:17] Dang, rock on. That's just it. And, and, uh, thinking back on my life, I mean, I should have been terrified to go to university. I was hours away from home, I didn't know anybody there. Oh my goodness.
[00:09:32] FAWN (2): So you were not afraid to embark on an enterprise. Let's go. Because you were going to be alone.
[00:09:38] MATT: Yes.
[00:09:39] FAWN (2): Yeah, me too.
[00:09:40] MATT: Because I was about to open the next chapter, and I knew it was the next chapter.
[00:09:44] FAWN (2): Do you think most people are though? Like you and I are, are, maybe that's why we are together, because we like, and always ran towards the being alone and going against what [00:10:00] the normal masses in society are into
[00:10:03] MATT: well, attitude has a lot to do with it, and also a history of previous successes have a lot to do with it.
[00:10:09] So, you start to run into, of course, as we've talked about oodles of times, the blockbuster trap, which is just because you've been successful doing this thing since the beginning of time doesn't mean you should continue doing it. However, in this particular instance, Running towards the new Wow, even if it's a failure, it's a spectacular one
[00:10:28] FAWN (2): But you know, it's interesting you're saying this Matt because a few weeks ago you were saying Because you don't look at social media because you're not aware of what's going out there that you feel like Maybe am I inadequate because I don't know what's going on out there Do you know what I'm saying?
[00:10:44] Cuz you're not following all these trends and all these things that are constantly popping up, right? And that is true, but but that's just it though. Like can you be truly comfortable with stepping away from the [00:11:00] campfire and having that thing on your shoulder light up that's the genius that's saying hey do this now, something that no one else has Done or that's not the consciousness of the tribe around the campfire.
[00:11:15] You're out in the woods Completely in the dark and you have to rely on Your genius if you will, you know that that spark that little spark What do you call it? Like a little deity or, no, not deity, but. Muse. Thank you, the muse that will light the way for you. But you have to go in the dark first, right?
[00:11:35] Right,
[00:11:36] MATT: and you have to have faith.
[00:11:38] FAWN (2): Right, and that's what we were talking about last week. You were saying. And that's
[00:11:41] MATT: just it. So even when I expressed my, nervousness or my uncomfortableness, it was a moment, it was a moment for me to reflect as to, Okay, so is this real? Is this not real? Question the first.
[00:11:55] Then question the second is, if it's real, what are you going to do about it? Because we always have choices [00:12:00] and options, it's usually a matter of understanding the situation you're in. And sometimes it takes a friend showing a mirror up to your face, and sometimes it takes you just Realizing, but
[00:12:13] As soon as you notice, as soon as you pay attention to even your own self and your own feelings and try and figure out why, and the problem is, is we're so scattered and diverted, it can be so hard to have a minute to think through something. Because, oh my god, I'm hungry.
[00:12:27] Or, oh my god, I've got to get to work. Oh my god, I've got to dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. And, and being able to, I call it spending a brain cell, spend a brain cell on a problem, which means basically take carving five, ten minutes to just think about this thing that maybe you don't even want to think about.
[00:12:43] FAWN (2): So the isolation you're saying could be within ten minutes?
[00:12:46] Yes. And that's what we need?
[00:12:49] MATT: That's a lot of what we need.
[00:12:51] FAWN (2): Yeah. But, Isn't it interesting that much like how there's not a whole lot of friendship happening because there's no [00:13:00] time There's not a lot of time for you to even have that with yourself. Yes to have that isolation that's needed
[00:13:08] MATT: It is scary and I'm like 25 times as guilty as anyone else because it's like even when I have a wonderful free day It's like I want to do this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, and this, and then I have no time.
[00:13:21] FAWN (2): Right? I know. I was just saying, because, you know, our whole family had the flu, and I was taking care of everybody, and then I got the flu, and I was just saying, well, ugh, even though I'm, I'm meticulous, and I'm on a, on the daily trying to take care of everything, like, always making sure the house looks good, and it's clean, and, you know, we all do our part.
[00:13:44] Taking care of the laundry and all of this. Yes, Matt. Matt takes care of the laundry. Every morning. And that's it. Stop it. So, but the thing is that when I do, when I am forced, not when I do, when I am forced to sit down or to lie [00:14:00] down Oh dear, here it comes. Cause I mean that, it never, it never happens, right?
[00:14:04] Like no matter how tired we are, we have to Keep going right
[00:14:08] MATT: until we who
[00:14:09] FAWN (2): takes naps
[00:14:10] MATT: until we exhaust ourselves
[00:14:12] FAWN (2): Beyond
[00:14:13] MATT: and then we sleep
[00:14:14] FAWN (2): and then that's on the daily, you're just exhausted by the end of the day But like when i'm so sick that in the middle of the day, I have to actually lie down And my head is down on a pillow and i'm looking i'm like, oh my god That bench has so much dust on the bottom of it Like the bot you know the bottom of it.
[00:14:35] Mm hmm You I gotta get up and clean that. So that's what I end up doing even though I'm in pain and I'm like, totally sick. And my head is throbbing when I bend over. I'm like, uh oh. Do you know what I'm saying? I'm like, I'm on the verge
[00:14:49] MATT: of passing out. In my world, what it means is that, I was downstairs, I was spinning, and I saw the puzzle box, and I opened the puzzle box, and I was like, Ooh![00:15:00]
[00:15:00] And I found two pieces that went together, and I was like, Excelsior, I am king! And then we did a puzzle.
[00:15:06] FAWN (2): Matt found this puzzle, we got years ago, ten years ago, we've had this puzzle.
[00:15:12] MATT: And it's an heirloom style puzzle, it's wooden, it's half an inch thick. It was from a shop
[00:15:17] FAWN (2): in Colorado, right? Liberty Puzzles.
[00:15:19] Liberty puzzles and they do puzzles that are made at I don't know. Are they still in business? They're
[00:15:24] MATT: still in business Yes, I don't think that shop exists. I went to their website. I don't know but I went to their website now I want to get another one.
[00:15:30] FAWN (2): They had a retail shop and so These pieces are made out of wood and they're done with a laser cut.
[00:15:38] Right.
[00:15:38] MATT: I don't know how they cut them, but it's, it's, it's done with a laser. It's like half an inch thick.
[00:15:43] FAWN (2): But the each little piece is an art in itself of
[00:15:47] MATT: there are a lot of pieces. Yes. And there are each pieces that look like stuff too. Yeah. Each piece of puzzle dancing Ladies and
[00:15:53] FAWN (2): Yeah, each piece, it's not a normal puzzle.
[00:15:56] Each little piece, each little puzzle piece is [00:16:00] its own. art shape so like matt said a dancing person or
[00:16:05] MATT: there were sunglasses that were
[00:16:07] FAWN (2): like it's really amazing and then when you put everything at And it's wood and they're tiny the pieces are small like honestly each little Puzzle piece could make a beautiful necklace on its own maybe right?
[00:16:22] So anyway, we've had this puzzle for 10 years because the kids were too small for it and we've always been too the four letter word busy to do anything
[00:16:32] MATT: and Also, we were afraid we'd lose pieces and etc. And this was not an inexpensive puzzle. This puzzle was like It's like 90 bucks now.
[00:16:41] FAWN (2): It was a gift.
[00:16:42] Jesus. It was gifted to us, but it's beautiful Yeah, and so anyway, so you put together two pieces, and you came upstairs all boastful. I am king. And you were like, hey kids, don't even bother trying, it's impossible. And they're like, I'm like, Matt, you [00:17:00] forget that I was the one homeschooling the kids from the beginning?
[00:17:03] You don't know. Like, you'll say things, I'm like, say it was impossible. You said, don't even bother kids. Yes, I said,
[00:17:11] MATT: don't even bother kids.
[00:17:12] FAWN (2): And I know, since these kids were babies, Matt. They, they're like you, they see patterns. Unlike me, I'm looking at something for 30 minutes, I'm like, what is this?
[00:17:23] Like, if it was me, mind you, I did not put one piece together because I would have gotten a hammer and hammered it in and gotten so upset. Well,
[00:17:32] MATT: it was really bizarre because you'd look at it and say, okay, this piece has to fit here. And then you just delicately had to figure out exactly how it fit.
[00:17:40] FAWN (2): I love how patient you guys are.
[00:17:42] We're totally digressing. But anyway, what happened was, you're like, kids don't even try and you left the room.
[00:17:47] MATT: Look at that hill head tilt.
[00:17:49] FAWN (2): What? What do you mean? You did a little head tilt on that, jeez. Well it was funny, and I knew, I'm like, to this day you still don't know. what happened in our [00:18:00] homeschooling.
[00:18:00] Do you know what I'm saying? Yes. I think once the panhandle happened. Dang it, it
[00:18:04] MATT: happened.
[00:18:06] FAWN (2): Thank you. Like you came in, you're like, what do you mean we're not doing calculus right now? You know, like you were so book, not that I wasn't book oriented, but you are very much like, we got to get calculus going, you know?
[00:18:21] And I'm like, oh no, you know, we, I had developed a different style of teaching. And you came in with your style of teaching, but so yeah, I did tilt my head because I am boastful that I recognize that the kids, since they were babies, were so genius at puzzles, like hard puzzles, within seconds. They always did it.
[00:18:43] So when you said kids don't even bother. I looked at the kids. They looked at me and you left the room. And then he started going at it and they were like, they put piece after piece together, no problem. Okay,
[00:18:55] MATT: I, again, we shouldn't be digressing, but basically it just shows you're thinking [00:19:00] chores and I'm just thinking random.
[00:19:01] FAWN (2): That's true. But anyway, I'm so glad because yeah, otherwise our house would be gross.
[00:19:08] MATT: And it would, and it wouldn't be a lot of, it wouldn't be as much fun.
[00:19:11] FAWN (2): I was just going to say, and we wouldn't have fun, because I'm always thinking. And we wouldn't have
[00:19:15] MATT: any fun. Thanks, honey. So I'm basically a slob, and you're no fun?
[00:19:20] Is that what you're saying? That's
[00:19:21] FAWN (2): what I said. Oof. That's how I feel. Ouch. That's what I feel. I feel like I don't know how to have fun. I don't. I don't. I know. Hopefully it's a phase that's lasted many years, but
[00:19:35] MATT: anyways
[00:19:37] FAWN (2): So going back to resistance and isolation, so I think it's important to be isolated Sometimes and you're saying I like how you broke it down like at least have a 10 minute period of isolation a day Mm hmm, whereas I was thinking let me go off into the woods Live on an island by myself, that's the [00:20:00] dream.
[00:20:00] For 48
[00:20:00] MATT: hours, 72 hours, 10 weeks.
[00:20:04] FAWN (2): Yeah, like, , I daydream. Even though I'm such a huge, cheerleader for friendship and community, at the same time, you guys, I love daydreaming about maybe going to a retreat where you don't speak. No one talks to you, you don't talk to anyone.
[00:20:21] You're not allowed. For like a week. I don't know if I could last that long, but let's start with two days. That would be amazing. But to have that kind of isolation because I feel like I We're on such I'm gonna speak for all of us in the world. We're on such a treadmill It keeps getting faster and faster and it's keeping us from being friends.
[00:20:44] It's keeping us from having community It's keeping us from figuring out what is really really important Because we're in a rat race, it feels like not to be so negative you guys. I'm sorry, but come on Isn't that really the [00:21:00] case? I Don't know about other countries because it's been a minute since I left right and traveled But I don't know that's how it feels and it just feels like it's getting more intense and faster You know time is going by faster.
[00:21:16] Mm hmm
[00:21:17] FAWN (2): every day and we don't have that time for Isolation And now when we say isolation, I think we're going back to 2020 and everybody's like, Oh yeah, I'm not, I'm
[00:21:27] MATT: not talking about that. I'm talking about how every morning I spend 10 minutes. Um, well, especially on Monday mornings, I'll spend 10 minutes and I'll plan my week just to get a sense, just to make sure I know everything that I really want to get done that week as far as like quote unquote, where it goes.
[00:21:43] And then I have other moments during the day where I can take a minute or five minutes or whatever it is, and really ponder, because in my field, sometimes it's important to step back and try and take an objective view of things. And so, because that works in one space, I believe it should work in all spaces, so I, [00:22:00] I apply it to my personal life too.
[00:22:03] FAWN (2): And just going back to the last bit of what this is saying, that Lennon and Dylon knew that the part of themselves that does the writing is too sacred, too precious, too fragile, to be redacted into soundbites. For the titillation of would be idolators
[00:22:21] MATT: idolaters
[00:22:21] FAWN (2): idols. Oh my God. I mispronounced it. The other, why didn't you tell me I mispronounced that
[00:22:25] MATT: I was going to, but you were on such a roll.
[00:22:27] Ah
[00:22:28] FAWN (2): idol.
[00:22:29] MATT: Idolaters a
[00:22:31] FAWN (2): what?
[00:22:31] MATT: See, y'all never read no . Y'all never read the New Testament because they got idolaters through the whole thing. But,
[00:22:38] FAWN (2): but I was gonna say. We were just talking about false, false idols, right? Yes. A couple weeks ago. Mm hmm. It's the same thing. It's like that message keeps coming up for us, right?
[00:22:50] MATT: I suppose.
[00:22:52] FAWN (2): False idols.
[00:22:53] MATT: Well, we need to take an objective view of everybody.
[00:22:56] FAWN (2): And that's the thing. Because we're so busy, because we don't have time, [00:23:00] that we don't have that kind of mental space, which I think is called isolation in this case. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. We don't have that. I think that's when all the false idols in politics, in business, in every aspect have been popping up all over the place and confusing everything.
[00:23:18] This is why the message for this week, Resistance and Isolation, really thinking about what that is and how we need it. Right. How we can see the resistance and how we can use that isolation to bring us together.
[00:23:33] MATT: It works for me.
[00:23:35] FAWN (2): Well, that's it. I can't believe I mispronounced. I still can't say it. I doll er.
[00:23:39] MATT: I doll eter.
[00:23:40] FAWN (2): I doll eter.
[00:23:41] MATT: Yes.
[00:23:42] FAWN (2): I doll er. I doll eters. Yes. Oh my gosh.
[00:23:45] MATT: I know. I know. It's an epitome word. Or a gun whale word. Or a, or a zydeco word.
[00:23:53] FAWN (2): Sorry guys. I doll er. I can't say it. I doll eter. I doll eter.
[00:23:57] And
[00:23:57] MATT: by the way, it's gunnel, epitome, and zydeco. Oh my god. It's [00:24:00] gunnel, epitome, and zydeco. Oh my gosh.
[00:24:02] FAWN (2): Okay. Okay. Well, you said Zydeco the same way. Oh,
[00:24:05] MATT: I'm sorry. I will call it Zydeco.
[00:24:08] FAWN (2): Zydeco. My bad. Because you said Zydeco each time. Oh, I feel terrible. You guys. Idolater.
[00:24:14] MATT: Love is winning.
[00:24:14] FAWN (2): Okay. Bye.
[00:24:16] MATT: Bye.
[00:24:18] FAWN (2): Have a beautiful every day.
[00:24:19] MATT: Be well.
