Episode Transcript
FAWN: [00:00:00] Welcome back to our friendly world, everybody. all right. Sometimes in the wild, wild west, the wild pioneering world of meeting people, trying to make friends, just meeting people in general, coming across different personalities, just speaking with people, dealing with people, you come across conflicting messages.
You can, you can come across conflicting messages. You can come across people that w- uh, have so many opinions. You come across people with no opinions and tell you to go Google something when you're asking them for their expertise, which why? Why can't they just tell you? Um, it's all about communication, and honestly, sometimes things can feel a little overwhelming.
So this is something I ran into recently, all of a sudden getting hit with so many, [00:01:00] so many... How do I say this, Matt? So many, um, uh, opinions, right? And, and, and just, like, flat out blatant, "This is it. This is it. You better listen to what I'm saying," kind of opinion, Anyway, we ran into someone and Matt finally said it's a lot of projection on their part. So how do we know when you're dealing with someone that is projecting? Projecting their own baggage, their own beliefs, their own everything, and not really taking a look at you as a person, not really looking at what you're dealing with as a separate entity.
So how do you deal with that, Matt?
MATT: Well, two things. Number one is be honest with yourself. Don't pretend. Don't play let's pretend with yourself. You know, just because something was true last week doesn't mean it's true today. [00:02:00] So really it's about, keeping contact with your inner Popeye.
Absolutely. And then once you're feeling comfortable inside of your inner Popeye, if this person challenges a belief, that's one thing, but if the person is like spinning around and around and around, it's something very, very different. I mean, this was somebody we, we ran into who would have just, whoosh, serious conversation, and then when they talked to me one-on-one, it was like, "La, la, la, la, la, la, la."
I mean, it was nuts. It was like nothing kind of made sense out of it.
FAWN: Well, how can you tell that someone is projecting? How can you, decipher the difference between projection and maybe something that you're not seeing in yourself? You know what I'm saying?
MATT: Yeah. And, it's a fun one, right?
I mean, it's not, it's not gonna be... There's, there is a certain amount of intuition that goes into it, and then there is a certain amount of you can sometimes, like, tease out a little something from their [00:03:00] lives to try and figure out if, if that's indeed what they are doing. And certainly- So do you- ... any piece of knowledge that you have about them helps you determine these things.
FAWN: So should you look for clues like, wow, okay, they're actually talking about themselves rather than whatever issue we were talking about right here?
MATT: Right.
FAWN: Is that, is that one of the telltale signs?
MATT: Yes, particularly when they've got a big opinion with not a lot of facts. You know, all of a sudden now they are following their own line of reasoning and, and they believe it's valid because this is the behaviors they have seen, which to me is classic projection.
FAWN: Explain.
MATT: Well, you know, if, if A equals B and B equals C, then A equals C. Boom. This is like one of these things we learn in programming.
FAWN: Oh my God. You're losing me.
MATT: I know. I know.
FAWN: I know. Can you just give a, a very benign example?
MATT: Okay, so I like the American football team, the Baltimore Ravens. So if somebody says Ravens or even raven, I [00:04:00] think about that. But my oldest thinks about, Edgar Allan Poe and "The Raven." So the meaning of raven is very different between us. So if I'm talking raven and I'm talking with my oldest, and I talk about my beloved Ravens, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, they'll take it into thinking about Edgar Allan Poe, thinking about poetry, thinking about everything else, and yet I'm throwing all of my stuff into it.
So it behooves my oldest, our oldest, to pay attention and figure out if I'm throwing down football terminologies
And that's a pretty benign example.
FAWN: All right. Can you give an example in friendship, something that happens where there's just a disconnect because of projection?
MATT: Well, I think about that family we visited in Boulder, and they were talking... I mean, they were, they were blown. They were gone.
They were, they were talking about all kinds of really-
FAWN: Are you talking about the QAnon people?
MATT: Yes, the QAnon people. [00:05:00] And, and you were like, "Yeah, absolutely. Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh." 'Cause you were projecting onto them your beliefs, and you were, you were comfortable with what they were saying because you thought it matched perfectly what was going on in your head until I said, "Uh-"
FAWN: That's
MATT: right.
I don't think you guys are talking about the same thing." You remember that?
FAWN: Yeah, I do remember. I was saying what I believed to be true, and they were like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly." And then because they weren't listening to what I was saying, and so... And I, and then I wasn't really listening to what they were saying because I just wanted to believe that they were just like me.
But in reality, they had this whole, whole other, whole other dialogue that they were hearing based on what I was saying because they were assuming I was like them, and so we were having kind of two different conversations. So we were both projecting on each other. I don't know. But, you know, years later I'm like, "Hmm, they had some points."[00:06:00]
You know? I don't know.
MATT: Crazy always has points.
FAWN: Ugh. I don't... I mean, some of it is not so crazy anymore now that I look back on it- Anyways ... some of the stuff they were saying. I don't know. But all this definitely wears on you when you're trying to make friends and when you're try- trying to meet people, and when crazy stuff like that pops up, along with, the theory about the scorpion, right?
A scorpion is a scorpion, it's going to sting you. That's its nature. I mean, is projection a nature of a personality trait? Like, is it a personality trait also, or is it just a bizarre phenomenon that happens?
MATT: I, I think there's a bunch of stuff that happens. I think part of it is we wanna be surrounded by people who are like us, and we believe that, you know, the way we are is the best way to be.
I mean, that's what most people believe. And so we really desperately wanna see that in others. And so sometimes we go, we hang it [00:07:00] out there a little bit, um, until, of course, reality sinks in and everybody's like, "Pfft, no."
FAWN: That's why sometimes, a lot of the times lately, I've just been wanting to be quiet and not really speak with a lot of people or any people sometimes because it's just too much crazy out there.
E- even coming from people who are not crazy, it's just too much, and I, I don't think people have the right context most of the time anymore. They don't have the right perspective, and they can jump to conclusions and start projecting and start assuming things, and it just makes that friendship hard to develop and future friendships to develop because honestly, I'm exhausted.
And, you know, this happened a little bit ago, and I'm still, in shock over it, and I don't wanna meet people right now, you [00:08:00] know?
MATT: Well, I tend to keep my friendships almost banal for, for the longest time. I mean, they're very almost superficial and just-
FAWN: I mean, it doesn't even have to be with friendship, though.
It could just be someone that you have to interact with, and then you come across these things, and you have to deal with it.
MATT: Well, if I have to deal with it, then I'll just kind of get over... I'll, I'll just go over it, meaning I'll ignore it on some level.
FAWN: You are way better than me. I can't do that. Do you really ignore it or do you store it somewhere in your body?
MATT: Oh, who knows? You know, I'm currently working with a guy who is never wrong about anything, even if he's clearly wrong. You know, and that, that's a little tiring, but-
FAWN: It is ...
MATT: but I get over it because sometimes w- sometimes we will... Once in a while we will have a really interesting discussion, and he's starting to learn because I'm not protecting him from anybody anymore.
And so people are coming to him and talking to him [00:09:00] and realizing this and, like, not wanting to talk to him, and he's getting more isolated.
FAWN: Um, I recently met someone who has really strong opinions and, and I realized no matter what I did, and she does this with everybody no matter what. She has a very, uh, negative or derogatory comment on everything, every minute.
And I found myself feeling dizzy around her. And, you know, of course she thinks, you know, oh, I'm from California, so I'm very ditzy or whatever it is. You know, whatever conception, perception they have of what California is. Uh, it, it... I couldn't even drive with her in the car because she had-- I felt dizzy because it was the constant judgment, the constant remarking about something I did constantly, [00:10:00] nonstop.
And honestly, I can't... I'm still trying to recuperate from that. I stopped hanging around this person. I can't do it. It's exhausting. Oh, it doesn't, uh, it doesn't help that here I am trying to, again, develop concepts of what friendship is and how we can come together and how we can appreciate every value from every person.
It's, it's hard to do, and I just wanted to just talk about that today, that there are hard personalities to deal with. You need to take a break. You need to decipher, look at it like it is what it is. This is what's happening, and don't take everything so personally. Sometimes people are just that way, judgmental, opinionated, projecting, all of that stuff.
So again, it's good to sometimes not be with a bunch of people and [00:11:00] sometimes, a lot of the time for me anyway, to Sit quietly. Not listen to anything or anyone for a little while so you can hear your own thoughts start to come in, where you can hear your own intuition come and express itself so you can decipher, is this true?
Is this not true? Is this projection, or is it the truth about me that I don't wanna look at? All of that, so you can decipher what's going on. Anyway, that's my lesson for this week.
MATT: Yeah. Sometimes it's great to just, I don't know, sit, go to the movies, talk about, you know, maybe go out to dinner afterwards with a friend and talk about the movie and move away.
Uh, not move away, but, you know, then end, you know, end the engagement or the date, whatever you wanna call it, with the person. And that is your interaction with them. Sometimes it's good to be superficial. Sometimes it's good to put force shields up, depending on the person, if you have to deal with them.
And sometimes it's good to go off on them. So there you go.
FAWN: If I go off on [00:12:00] someone, I think it'll be, like, very bad because I tend to just go off and blow up all of a sudden, and they're like, "Where'd this come from?" So I'd rather just be alone for a little bit and come back later. Anyway, so that's it.
Do you have anything else? That's it?
MATT: Nope. Be well, everyone.
FAWN: Have a beautiful every day, and we'll talk to you in a few days.
