"Friendship in an Overwhelmed World"

Transcript FAWN: [00:00:00] Today we are talking about overwhelm, what it's doing to our relationships, and how friendship may be one of the most powerful ways to stay human in a world that often feels overwhelming. Thanks for joining us. Here we go Welcome back to our friendly world, everybody. MATT: Hey, hey. Hello. FAWN: In a culture that seems to focus and reward outrage, urgency, and constant reaction, friendship becomes a quiet act of peaceful resistance to the chaos, I think. MATT: Oof. Okay. FAWN: It does. Mm. I've said that all along. Like, if we get back to the art of friendship and having more friendship, it's really the key for a better economy, happier neighborhoods, healthier bodies, healthier neighborhoods, everything. It's the [00:01:00] key. We navigate friendships, schooling, our identities, health, the way technology is going to be changing everything. I'm tired of using the word AI, by the way, but, you know. Like, do you think, Matt, after a point we can stop saying AI and just say technology? It's like AI, AI, this and that. That's all I hear lately. Maybe that's a, an answer for another time, anyway, The way it's changing everything, I feel like it's making everyone so stretched thin, and somehow we're expected to carry on like it's all normal. And what this is, it's this great exhaustion. It's not only physical tiredness, it's like everything, all of the following words that end with fatigue, like decision fatigue, [00:02:00] information fatigue, emotional, social fatigue. And I think that it's because there's so much happening at the same time. There's so much coming at us. There's so much that we're dealing with, and maybe we should talk about being informed versus Overwhelmed. Because there's a difference. Being informed helps us engage with the world. Being immersed in an endless stream of problems, that can lead us to feeling completely powerless. And friendship matters more during difficult times like these when stress increases. But when the stress increases, many people tend to isolate, and ironically, this is when friendship is the most needed. This is the time you really need-- We all need friends when we're stressed out, but most people tend to go away [00:03:00] and not come out until things they feel is better. A friend can't solve every problem, but a friend can help us see that we don't have to carry everything, all the problems all alone. We're not responsible for fixing every problem in the world. We're responsible for doing the next good thing Anyway, those are my thoughts. MATT: I think a lot of what happens is oftentimes, like when I'm really caught in my own BS, my own malarkey, right? It's good to talk to a friend who reminds me that my own malarkey is my own malarkey, and there's a whole world out there, and that world has sunrises and sunsets and, there are certain objective things that happen. And also, I think at this point in time, certainly the mantra in America, a lot of it has been flood the zone, flood the zone, which means overload, [00:04:00] overload, overload. And, you know, it's like focus on the things you can do something about, stay informed, but let's not get crazy. And the things you can't do anything about You gotta let that stuff go. FAWN: That's really good advice. Going back to the first part of what you said, though, like turning to a friend for a d- different kind of a perspective. Right. I, I feel like friends tend to have the same belief systems and same political affiliations and stuff like that, right? MATT: But I'm not FAWN: talking about- But, but I'm just saying, what I'm trying to say is that what if you're both feeling the same way? Even if it's not politically charged or anything like if you're in a friend group, even if you don't live in the same town, you're kinda going through the same thing. MATT: Are you? FAWN: You know what I'm saying? Yeah. MATT: I mean- Well, and, and that's just it. Maybe it just depends on the types of things you talk over with your friends, right? Like finding out about, uh, Steeny's son graduating from [00:05:00] college with his double AA's and going on somewhere else. That certainly removes me from my, my reality for a moment with a very real thing, right? And, and gets me thinking about, wow, that's very cool, you know, and it, and it, and this is the tack he's gonna be taking and, and all of a sudden I'm not thinking about my own stuff for a minute. But I'm not getting a dopamine hit, and I'm not immediately scrolling to another story. We're just having a conversation about, about our lives, and I can tell him about my life, things that are going well, things that aren't going well, and back and forth, and we're not political. We're not talking about, what's happening over there or over there. We're just talking about what's happening in our own little slice of reality and just having a conversation- Wow ... around that. FAWN: Well, I just realized that when you talk to your friends, you're just telling stories, whereas I think, like, when I talk to my friends, we are sharing, you know, what's happened, but [00:06:00] we're trying to figure things out. Because we're relating it to the grander scheme of what's really happening in society, you know? And our role in it, even though we're talking about our kids graduating from this or that, or, or whatever you experienced during the week. For some reason, in my friend group, we always bring it back to, " Oh, no," like, "How are we gonna pay for health insurance?" Or like, "Can you believe what's going on?" Like how expensive this is or... Do you know what I'm saying? It's, it's more, for me, more mom stuff and the, uh, helpless feeling that we get on how are we gonna survive. E- either because we're really tired or, like, financially, what are we gonna do with our careers? What are we doing? It's all that stuff. And do you know what I'm saying? It can't-- I feel like when we're talking, it's not my son graduated from this place. You know what I'm saying? MATT: And, and I get it, and it's not like [00:07:00] that's all the only conversations we have. We do have the deeper conversations, but I'm also not- FAWN: I'm not saying yours aren't deep ... MATT: not asking anybody to solve. I'm just conveying. It's almost like we're just conveying information back and forth. We're just talking. That's what FAWN: I'm saying. MATT: We're not trying to- I feel like FAWN: we- ... MATT: figure- FAWN: We- ... for the most part we're trying to figure it out. We're trying to figure it out. MATT: And I think a lot of what I'll do and he'll do is, is what's called rubber ducking, and that's a real term. Which is, like, you get someone else in the room and you talk over something because maybe it'll give you insight as you're talking about it, it'll give you insight to it. But, like, that part, when we have those types of conversations, usually, you know, the, the banter back and forth is very muted and, and very small. And, oftentimes it's enough for me to hear, "Wow, that sucks, dude," while I'm describing what's happening and I'm really thinking through, "Well, what, what is really happening and what can I do about it?" FAWN: So is that where it gets left off? "Oh, that sucks, dude"? MATT: [00:08:00] Sometimes. Sometimes we'll, we'll figure stuff out. Sometimes I'll, I'll ask a question of him if... and, and expect an answer, and he'll give me an answer. It just, it really depends on the flow. But I think the key of it is that, We try and end on an up note. So we may go there maybe at the start of a conversation, but then we'll start talking about silly stuff too. We're choosing not to live there. We're choosing to express data back and forth, but we're not choosing to live in any one particular area. FAWN: Very interesting, Matt. Is it a guy thing or is it- I- Maybe it's just a me thing. I MATT: don't know. FAWN: I couldn't, MATT: I couldn't tell you, you know? But- Well- But also keep in mind there are certain things that I do to help with my overload And, and that you, that, that studies have shown you should do. Number one, I think the most important thing with this information overload that we're dealing with, or cognitive dissonance, or we can call it, um, a cognitive overload rather, not dissonance. Um, but basically kind of the number one thing-- Well, to me the number [00:09:00] two thing, um, make sure you trust the source of wherever it is you're getting information, because that's a challenging thing because information's at a premium and manipulation of information is, I think for many people absolutely key. You know, one of the things I've discovered it feels like is that, in America, you know, you look at somebody who's ferociously on the left and f- or ferociously on the right, they're literally getting different news. What's true, what's not true, what's important, and what's not important. And oftentimes it's about scoring points, it's not about conveying information is, is, is a lot of the, quote-unquote, "news" that we see. It's about scoring points. It's not... Again, it's just, mm, it's not about conveying information or even conveying important information. It's about saying, "Well, they're wrong and we're right," 'cause we're not gonna talk about this one thing that we're humongously wrong about And we're only gonna talk about the things that they're humongously wrong about. And it's like, whoa. Well, [00:10:00] that's tricky. So that's kind of, that's a very important thing. So if you're gonna have outrage over something, make sure it's, it's what you think it is. Sometimes it isn't. FAWN: But people think absolutely it is what I think it is. You know what I'm saying? Well- There's no way... How can you even find out what the truth is or what a good source is? MATT: Okay. Honestly. I, I challenge you, I challenge our, our listeners. Don't look at anything, any news made in your country. Pick a different country, doesn't matter which country, and see how they're reporting the news of your country, and see if that doesn't put a little bonk on your head. I get all my news from England. FAWN: But that's a problem though, because one country may be so biased against some other culture or some other country. So just because you're getting it not from the country you're living in- Mm-hmm ... I mean, there's a lot of hate. MATT: Yes, there is. Ugh- It's, it's just about understanding that there are different [00:11:00] ways, different points of view, different everythings. It's about getting off your moral high horse sometimes and really trying to come to the truth at the heart of the matter, whatever that matter is. And you know what? Maybe you're right. Rock on. Awesome. But are you... It feels like to be completely right is impossible now. FAWN: Mm. MATT: So that's number one. And then number two, as far as managing overload is I write stuff down. I keep track of my notes. I keep track of my to-do list. If I remember to, if I remember I have to do something, I write it down, and then I actually look at my notes, and then I, as, as I plan my day, and this sounds very digital, clinical, but again, this is, experts are saying it's a good thing. write things down, organize your thoughts, take a look at that list and try and figure out what are the things I can actually accomplish. Otherwise, you just flit from [00:12:00] task to task, never really necessarily making much progress. And I just said the ephemeral experts, but yes. I found one who agreed with me, so I'm going with it It's about figuring out what's important now, honestly, and what can I actually affect change about right now? FAWN: So I have a question. MATT: Yes. FAWN: Do you have advice on how you can regain a different perspective? MATT: Well, I just mentioned going to alt- completely alternative- No, yes ... news sources. FAWN: But, but I don't like that one because- I know ... you never know the politics of another country. It's- That's true ... it's hard enough knowing our own politics. So, MATT: so pick three other countries. FAWN: Let's not talk about, let's not talk about news. I'm just talking about life in general. If you feel like things suck, how can you regain perspective? MATT: Okay. So for me, I've identified activities that always make me feel better, and one of those things that always makes me feel better is taking a walk. [00:13:00] Another thing is taking a good long bike ride, and another one is writing code. Now that's two physicals and one mental. , And I'm sure that there are spiritual activities that I, there must be that I do, I know I do, that make me feel better, that kind of take me a little bit out of either my routine, out of my perspective, or just away from negative influences or influences in general. Like when I'm on my bike, the only thing that's gonna influence me are mosquitoes, squirrels, and other, and cyclists and people walking their dogs, and maybe a bear. FAWN: I have, um, I have a suggestion, suggestion, because, sometimes I just don't wanna go out or, , I don't feel like going on a bike ride. It's too hot. I'm sorry. Right. No thank you. MATT: Right. FAWN: This is what usually helps me. So we don't have pets, but, going outside, , the animals help me out. MATT: Mm-hmm. FAWN: Like I said, we don't have pets, but always a chipmunk, [00:14:00] a squirrel, a bird of some kind will come along and stare at me, and we-- I feel like there's an exchange, and I feel my perspective shifts because I'm watching how they're doing life. You know what I'm saying? Like they don't care that politics is this way or that way. It's like, "Whatever, man, I'm getting my nuts." You know what I'm saying? No, and also I was on a photo shoot. Did I already talk about this with our friends here on the podcast about- I MATT: don't think so. FAWN: Okay. Two different days this happened with animals. So I was on a photo shoot, I was early, I was parked in front of this building and there was, um, you know where the dirt is underneath the, it's like the foundation of the building? There's like an open space in some houses. Well anyway, I saw The, this huge animal, a furry animal just sitting there looking around. And I swear it had [00:15:00] the kindest look on its face. Like, it looked like it was smiling, and it was looking around like a person sitting on a rocking chair watching the neighborhood go by. It was noticing everything, and I swear it had a smile on its face. I'm like, "What kind of animal is that? I've never seen a creature like that before." Like, it's not a possum. It's not... Like, I went down the list of all the animals that I thought it could be. It wasn't a dog, it wasn't a cat. It was bigger than a dog, bigger than a cat. And I was like, "What is this creature?" And I'm looking, looking, and we were locked eyes, too, for a while. And so a few minutes go by, and it gets bored and it starts moving away. And as it turned around and walked away, I saw the tail and I'm like, it was a rat. MATT: Hey-o. FAWN: It was the size of a dog, like an obese, big, huge cat. It was a rat, Matt. This thing was like a dog-sized [00:16:00] rat. Anyway, it made me laugh so hard for some reason. I mean, what? I don't know. It did change my perspective because I was on a photo shoot. Mm-hmm. I was really nervous. I was trying to collect myself. Mm-hmm. And I don't know, something about it seemed really friendly. You know what I'm saying? MATT: Yes. FAWN: I don't know. It's weird. It's a rat. I get it, but it's- But then a few days later, I was, um, in traffic in the city, and I come to a crosswalk, so I kind of slowed down the... I'm driving, so I kind of slow down. Guess who's walking across this s- like, a crosswalk? No people. Guess who's walking? Two. Two creatures. A rat followed by a foot behind it, a, a bird, both walking across using the sidewalk. And I was like, "What in the world?" And again, I was in a frantic [00:17:00] state. I was nervous. Mm-hmm. I was stressed. And I'm watching this and I'm like, "What i- what is going on?" A rat is crossing using the sidewalk- Mm-hmm ... followed by his friend, this bird. I'm like, "Can't the bird fly? What's a bird doing with a rat?" And so I don't know what made me do this, but I, I beeped my horn. I'm like, honk, honk. And they were walking normally, and when I honked the car, the car horn- MATT: Right ... FAWN: so they're walking, tik, tik, tik, tik, tik. I beep the car horn. They're like, tik, tik, tik, tik, tik, tik, tik, tik. They kept walking. And I'm like- Nice ... that changed my perspective. MATT: And there you go FAWN: Two different examples. You like to work out. I used to like to work out. MATT: Uh, writing code is, yeah, sort of a workout. Well, the FAWN: bike you always talk about. MATT: I always talk about the bike, yes. The bike is the absolute guaranteed, but I can't always do that. The weather, like you said- Right ... if it's too hot, if it's too cold. FAWN: So, okay, [00:18:00] another, another advice for... 'Cause I, I'm noticing two things. Like, you know, we get stuck in a certain, uh, we, we, we become myopic, right? MATT: Right. FAWN: Myopic in, like, whatever we think things are. MATT: Mm-hmm. FAWN: Sad, bad, whatever, you know? How do you-- So changing your perspective to, like, really good, fun, everything is cool, to funny, you know? Um, but how about talking about compassion? How do you stay compassionate when you're emotionally exhausted? Any advice? I usually cry. I, I go somewhere- Crying is MATT: good ... FAWN: like, a- and if the tears don't come, if you, if you have constipation of the eyes, then I would recommend being alone, pulling the covers over your head, or even, like, just watching a movie and just... It, it will eventually release, all that [00:19:00] stuff that y- y- all the walls, everything. And I think once you have a cry, it's like having a beautiful rain shower that washes all the dirt off the streets and the plants. And then when the rain stops, when the crying stops, then things feel fresh again, and you have more energy MATT: I won't argue that. Absolutely. And, and it, it's also about, again, just sometimes it's about getting out of your own way. Sometimes for me it's about remembering back when I last felt this way and what helped me out of it. You know? Sometimes what helps me out of it is literally helping somebody. FAWN: Yeah, but you know how if you're emotionally exhausted, Matt- Mm-hmm ... you can't do anything. You know what I'm saying? So think of a way to get out of the emotional exhaustion. How do you do that? MATT: I'll go for [00:20:00] boredom. FAWN: Boredom? MATT: Yes. FAWN: What? MATT: The last pl- though if, if I'm feeling emotionally exhausted, I actually wanna get to a state of boredom because- FAWN: Is that how you watch those shows with me? 'Cause I watch some really inane romantic shows like Hallmark, and I'm like, "Why are you watching this with me?" Like, "Isn't this torture for you?" Because I love MATT: you. FAWN: I know you love me, but I'm just saying, I know it's not your cup of tea at all. You know what I'm saying? MATT: Right. FAWN: But is that why? Maybe it's so boring that you're like, "Okay." MATT: It's like it, it, it gives me a chance to rest, and that's the thing, and that's boredom right there. It's like when you actually get to the state of boredom and you live there for a minute, it's actually kind of a wonderful thing in this day and age because it's so easy to go gunning for another dopamine hit or, you know, "Ooh, I'll learn a new random fact about fast food restaurant A's," da, da, da, da. Or, "I'll look at the [00:21:00] news and I'll figure out who won the," you know, "who won the FIFA game last night," or, or, or, or. There's so much information that comes at us that it's almost like to be bored is like almost like an honor because, you know, you're s- you're, you're checking out of everything for a minute, and you're getting to the point where you're like, "Well, now I'm kinda curious what's going on. Well, this is almost vexing." That's kind of a good thing. If you can live there for just a little bit longer than maybe you'd feel comfortable You might notice yourself being less emotionally fatigued. FAWN: That's funny because I'm like, well, maybe if we go outside and just do nothing, maybe some people think that's boring, you know? But basically it's just going and not... It's unplugging from everything then. A- Is kind of what it is ... MATT: and/or sometimes it's, it's actually plugging into something else. FAWN: Mm. MATT: You know, plugging in, like when I'm riding my [00:22:00] bike, I'm plugging into just being in that entire f- what's called a flow state. When I'm writing code, same thing. If I choose to just sit down and just listen to, really listen, critically listen to music, that helps me too 'cause- FAWN: That's, so that helps your emotional exhaustion? MATT: I feel less tired. Wow. FAWN: Yes. Cool. MATT: Because I'm focused on but one thing, and it's not all the stuff that's making me feel emotionally exhausted. FAWN: I just cry. MATT: And I'm not going after dopamine hits. I'm just going after just smooth line to boredom. FAWN: Hmm. MATT: Easy train to boredom, folks. FAWN: Wow. MATT: That's what I'm recommending. When's the last time you were bored? FAWN: I never get bored. I'm serious. MATT: Right, because as soon as you have a free minute, then it's like, oh- I'm, yeah ... well, we gotta do this, and we gotta do that, and we gotta do the other, and we gotta do the other. FAWN: But I'm, I'm really good at tuning things out, so I'm really bored watching a football game with you.[00:23:00] There it is. Really bored. I am not into it at all. MATT: There FAWN: it is. But there's a lot hap- there's a lot of commotion in my head. There's a lot of commotion in the brain. So, like, I'm very good... This is probably how I grew up, how I managed to survive my family, 'cause I can be there, but there's a party happening in my head, and sometimes the party is just like, I don't know, it could be anything. But, uh, yeah, no, I never get bored. I don't wanna say that. Now I'm gonna get bored and I'm gonna get mad. MATT: Hey-oh. So FAWN: anyway, that's it for me. I know you have... Do you have other things to say? No, you don't? Are you sure? MATT: I am. FAWN: I know when I press the button, you're gonna be like, "Oh, I forgot to-" "Oh, God, I forgot MATT: to mention..." No. I'll be good today. FAWN: For real? MATT: Promise. Pinky FAWN: swear. All right. All right, everybody. Thanks for joining us. we'll talk to you in a few days. Have a beautiful every day. MATT: Be well, everyone.