Episode Transcript
We Have Contact
FAWN: [00:00:00] Hello everybody. Welcome back to Our Friendly World. Hello. It may not seem like a friendly world. We're making a friendly world, correct? Yes, we're working on it. Come on, everybody. I learned this the other day. Before we get into our today's topic that
when you feed into the scary stuff, for example, listening to the news. Watching the news, either through tv, through movies, even music, YouTube, whatever it is, that frequency, a really low level. I wanna say demonic force. That's how it feeds. It's like a web. Again, remember I was talking about the web and that's how the negative forces that destroy the destroying kind of a vibe energy, whatever you wanna call it, the evil.
That's how it lives and breeds and grows. So last night I finally made some steps to get myself away from that. I've noticed that my attention span also is that [00:01:00] if I am in a meeting with someone
That I have to do two other things at the same time I'm meeting with them.
Right.
So I've been stopping myself the last couple months. And it, it's a struggle because I wanna jump outta my skin and go, I could just, while they're talking, I could just do this other thing or go on another tab and look at this other tab while they're talking to me.
And I have to stop myself and force myself to sit there and just look at them hear what they have to say. Nothing else.
Right.
Like it's hard for me to do that. So last night I decided to sit quietly on the couch and read a physical book, not on a tablet, a real book with paper.
And it was so hard, my attention kept going different places. Well, was it
MATT: a humongously, scholastic tome or something? It was
FAWN: a children's book. Oh.
I was reading the original Wizard of Oz.
But you know, and it was written differently, so I'm like, wait, why is this sentence like [00:02:00] this? But that's my normal, it's always been that way my whole life. I've never been tested for dyslexia or any of those things, guaranteed
i'm sure I have a bunch of those problems, but, I had to reread sentences over and over again. And then I'm like, okay, I can't do this cold Turkey. I wanna turn on the tv. So instead of watching like a show that's normal, I ended up watching a documentary and I learned about Hazel Scott, Oh my goodness. And I felt so inspired anyway,
MATT: fair enough.
FAWN: Anyway, welcome to our friendly world, is what I was trying to say. Yes but much like when you walk into a room, you have to have purpose
when you walk into a room. You have to set an agenda of how you are going to add to that room. That room could be any situation, It can be. And so let's do that with the world.
MATT: So segwaying back I've been working in an office. So here I am. Strange New world. I'm starting new. [00:03:00] It's almost like it's like first day of school. First day at new job, right? Unless you already knew somebody there.
I'm starting to form relationships.
I'm starting to, develop shorthand with different people. I'm starting to figure things out and one of the things that's now coming across from me, humongously, like really cementing into me that I'm starting to belong there, for me, I think it's always been the touch barrier. I'm careful who I touch and why.
I'm very deliberate about it without being heavy handed about it. And I think a lot of that comes from my upbringing, my family never touched, like, I don't know if I've ever seen my mom hug my dad like. Peck on the cheek was about it, but like my sister hates to be touched. Every time my brother touches anybody, it feels awkward.
Very awkward, uncomfortable, and heavy handed.
FAWN: Speaking of heavy handed, yeah. There was one time we were all posing for a [00:04:00] photo and he put his arms around my shoulder. He was holding one of my arms. As the person was taking their sweet time, taking the picture. To this day, I don't know why your brother did this, but he's a very big guy.
He's muscular, he's big, and. His grasp on my arm kept getting tighter. Like, like, kind of like an anaconda, right? But like, he kept getting tighter and tighter and tighter and tighter to the point where I, I started to scream in pain and everybody looked at me like, what's the matter with you? And he let go, but I had to scream.
Mm-hmm. 'cause it was so painful. I'm like, is he aware he did that? Was it because he was nervous? Or did he was his disdain of me? Really coming out?
MATT: Or did he wanna be that close to you? You just don't know. He was
FAWN: hurting me.
MATT: He wasn't aware of that.
FAWN: How do you know
MATT: you're
FAWN: right? To this day, I don't know if it was on purpose.
You're right. How do I know? How do I
MATT: know? How do I not know? I generally [00:05:00] assume benevolent intent unless absolutely, deliberately proven opposite. So, you know, that's how I, I like to go through my life. And not assume evil intent, but Exactly. So all of a sudden you look at, you know, when you're a little kid, all your role models, all the people you seek to emulate, there's no touching.
And it's become even worse because at least when I started working professionally, it was like the handshake, the blah, blah, blah. But it's gotten even more challenging, and I'm even less likely. As a matter of fact, I, I started a job right and I was masked and everything, and my boss's boss met me at the door, let me in to pick up my, my equipment.
He wanted to shake my hand, and I just looked at his hand like this in the heat was a dead skunk.
FAWN: Th this was when they didn't know how the virus was spreading.
MATT: I remember that I looked at it like,
FAWN: like, oh
no,
I remember [00:06:00] that.
MATT: And he remembers it too, because he commented on it months and months later when we could laugh about it, because we had then developed shorthand in the relationships.
But I wanna say, and I'm gonna be deliberate in this because we do transition all over the place, but in European society, the handshake is to tell someone you have no weapons. Mm-hmm. It's not a,
FAWN: I thought it was Asian.
MATT: European, I have no weapons. I'm not carrying a dagger in this hand
FAWN: because in karate that was to show that hey, I'm not carrying a weapon.
MATT: And and there you go. And maybe it's a universal trait, so it's tricky, and it's certainly now tricky now that I am back in an office.
So these small kind of, touches these nonverbal moments, these nonverbal communications start to break down barriers and start to. Form relationships, you start to really form a relationship with someone. It's one thing to joke around with somebody. It's something else [00:07:00] to say, Hey, how's it going?
So and so, and the rest of it, but really. If you think about it, like if you put out your, like, we do fist bumps at work and fist bumps are ridiculous because it feels almost like I'm holding out my fist. You punch with your fist, and somehow or another that conveys a sense of friendship or intimacy seems a little silly, seems a little not intimate.
It feels like I'm gonna give you the barest minimum. I'm going to keep myself, protected. And things like even handshakes, like the traditional handshake now is like, well, who's got the top? And is somebody twisting someone? The politics of a handshake put. But however, putting out your hand for a handshake is indeed a vulnerability.
That can be abused is, I obviously did it with my former boss in looking at it like it was a dead fish.
FAWN: It is abused because people take that as an opportunity to either [00:08:00] show dominance or I still don't understand that limp handshake. You go to shake someone's hand and they totally go limp on you.
And this like, I've had strong big men do this. I'm like, are you serious? Really? Like I'm holding a noodle, like what am I supposed to do with this? Why did you do that? Throw it
away.
And then I remember we went to a company party of yours. You introduced me to one of the women. We went to shake each other's hands like simultaneously, she takes my hand and she. She strong. Arms my hand, so her hand has the upper hand, and I looked at her. I'm like, you bitch. I'm like, if there was any kind of a friendship or anything, it will never ever happen.
I see you. And I remember I looked right at her and I just walked away. I think, I don't know. I don't know what I did, but it was so rude. I'm like, are you [00:09:00] serious right now? Why are you playing these games with me? I don't even work with you. What is your problem? Anyway. I hate all those things, and plus now I've always been a germophobe, like right now that I'm thinking about it, like even as a little kid mm-hmm.
When my parents left the house, um, I would clean meticulously. Mm-hmm. You know, I, I, I've always been that way, and especially since our first child was born and the mess that happened in the hospital. Mm-hmm. You know, we both became total germophobes, but like, honestly, I'm becoming more and more sensitive to even shake a hand.
I'm not into it. That's like, it's like dating. It's like, whoa, you're asking me to move in from, from zero. Right? Like, I, but that's just, it's, I don't wanna touch you.
MATT: It's become much more of an, to me and to you, I'm much more intimate thing. Right. I
FAWN: think, I think it's more of that for everybody else because I think globally we've all become very much more in attuned to each other's energies
[00:10:00] than ever before. So we don't need that handshake. You can just feel someone, you can feel them from before even entering the room. But
MATT: it adds another dimension.
FAWN: I don't need that. It's too much
MATT: because honestly, my coworker at work, who I suppose I'm the most fond of,
FAWN: sorry, that's my phone.
MATT: Like we started with a fist bump, and then I looked at him like, what? And so now it's a fist bump to a handshake, to another style of handshake, to another style of handshake.
FAWN: That's a huge dance right there. And
MATT: we do that dance. We do that dance every morning now, and smile and laugh and joke with each
FAWN: other.
You should add a hip bump to it,
MATT: but we're across from each other. But what I'm saying though is, is this is me clearly communicating and him clearly communicating back. I don't know who initiates and who does, who's, who's responding, that we're willing to go on this little tiny journey with each other every single day that we're fond of each other without needing to say that we [00:11:00] are fond of each other.
FAWN: You know, one of the things I've been noticing, someone pointed this out a few years ago. Have you noticed when people, if you look at it, you'll see that everyone, almost everyone does it. You shake someone's hand. Mm-hmm. So someone will shake someone's hand, their hand will go down for a split second, but immediately goes to their nose.
MATT: Nope. We don't do that.
FAWN: No, no, no. You think you don't, you think No, no. Not like that. It happens in a very slight manner. It happens, in an unconscious manner. That it always goes to the face and that they were explaining it. When I learned about this years ago, they were explaining it as, it's like a primal thing to sense you out.
Like, are you okay? Like a dog? How dogs sense each other, like smell each other. Humans do that too. And if you notice, if you just look at people like um, on video or just look at people in general when they [00:12:00] first meet them for the first time mm-hmm. And they do the handshake. The hand always goes like a few seconds later, will always go towards the nose.
It's like you're smelling that person.
MATT: Oh God. Now I'm gonna have to start thinking about that when I shake hands.
FAWN: Well, no, not you. Not when you are doing it, watch other people do it. I know, but I'm gonna have to watch
MATT: myself and others and see what we do.
All right. Anyways, and then there's another guy I work with who's, you know, he's, he's, he's all right. I like him well enough, very deliberately at one point, touched my shoulder.
Have you ever like, had the craving to like just touch someone's shoulder?
FAWN: Um, yes. When I feel like they need it.
MATT: Interesting. 'cause I,
FAWN: my friends used to do that with my head because they knew me well enough to know when I was having a bad thought or I was scared or upset, but a heightened emotion, they would place the palm of their hands on top of my head, not in a demeaning way.
In a, in a loving way. Mm-hmm. [00:13:00] And that. Helped so much.
MATT: Interesting because I'm more thinking about how, like, how we get now with sports stars or I've read stories about different prophets when they go into a, when they would visit a village p everybody would be grabbing at them to like grab the hem of their garment.
To connect with them on a very kind of primal level is, is how I felt every time I've wanted to touch someone on the shoulder.
FAWN: That happened to me when I was in Ethiopia. Mm-hmm. I was there for quite a long time and I went from, tribe to tribe. Mm-hmm. It happened in a couple places where I walked in and I was obviously the one that was a foreigner.
Mm-hmm. You know, even though I looked like them, they said, but they, you know, they knew I was not from there. I was new and I would be surrounded by people and that's what they would do. They would like, everyone was touching me at the same time, and if they couldn't reach [00:14:00] my shoulder or something because I was surrounded.
Mm-hmm. My hair was super long. My hair started going off in different directions to the point where I almost had a panic attack. 'cause I'm like, when is this gonna stop? Right. And now I'm understanding it was probably for connection. It was to connect. Right.
MATT: And, and it's, it's on their side and it's also a reassurance to you.
So it's a two-way communication. We're letting you know that you're cool with us. And then they're expecting you to have an understanding that that's what they're trying to do is, is connect. And so it was interesting when this coworker did that and it felt like it was subconscious on his part. And I pretended to ignore it while registering it happen.
'cause I don't want to make anybody feel uncomfortable. And I felt that way. And it's because I want to connect with this person and I, I just don't know how.
FAWN: I mean, the best for me is, mm-hmm. The eye contact. The [00:15:00] lingering eye contact. Right. But with purpose.
MATT: Right. But I'm typically, it's typically two people focused on maybe a computer screen or on their lunches or, or, or, 'cause these are the opportunities we have to really interact with one another.
FAWN: I find that when someone speaks mm-hmm.
And when they're talk, when they're done, I'll have a lingering look. But the, I mean, it could look very scary and intimidating, so if you do a nod while you're looking at them. Mm-hmm. Blinking, don't look at them with big eyes, but , a caring, slight tilt to the head and
a nodding and mm-hmm. A soft look. Don't disengage from the eye contact. Mm-hmm. Have it be a soft look. At least two to three seconds I think. And. I feel like so much gets translated in that, and I feel like for me that's so much more effective than a handshake.
MATT: Well, a handshake, yes. Because I think a handshake is desensitizing and desensitized and it's, [00:16:00] it's, is it kind of like electricity?
FAWN: Like you're grounding yourself so you don't get shocked, like, you know what I'm saying? Right. No, no, no. I, so you have to tap the person to, to release that charge in a way.
Maybe. Maybe it is
MATT: that, um, maybe. But, uh, uh, I think that this person just wanted to let me know, just wanted to, was much like in Aikido we describe a punch as this person is so frustrated and trying to like, convey something to you that they're going to come heck or high water, right? Which is where a punch can come from.
'cause they feel so unheard or they're, you're in such opposition. But this is. Only similar in that, again, it's somebody saying that they wanna connect with you without having to say they wanna connect with you because people have a hard time saying what they mean.
FAWN: Yeah. I mean, it could mean several things.
It could also [00:17:00] let the other person know, Hey, be in the present. I'm here with you.
MATT: Right. And that's true. But this, it's okay. This wasn't that. This was. I wanna connect with you, or I want to let you know, he did say something after he didn't
FAWN: or before, but
MATT: I was totally giving him like good stuff and totally helping him out without him feeling in any way like I was lecturing or any of the rest of it.
I was like totally helping to sort him out and he was totally appreciating it. Nice. And I think he wanted to go to that next level to express that he appreciated it. Right? But he didn't have a vocabulary for it.
FAWN: There's so much wrapped up in simple gestures like that. You always use your intuition because you can always feel the energetic quality of it.
Yes.
So if he had, bad intentions, you could feel that. Yeah. If it was a kind thing. You definitely feel that. Right. And so for you felt it. I did. It's more than the, it's more than the touch, it's the electrical currents going between the people, the information that's transmitted through it,
MATT: but people who [00:18:00] don't think in those terms and don't have any vocabulary regress into things maybe from their childhood or things.
'cause you know, your mom holds you when you're crying, you know, it was a strong enough emotion that he couldn't voice, if that makes sense. And that's how he could voice it. Mm-hmm. And then what's interesting, so these are with, these are with people who are born in America.
Now I also have a coworker I hang out with and to say coworkers, almost a misnomer 'cause we're on completely different projects. Who's from India and we were talking. And for her to express. It was interesting 'cause again, I could feel like she wanted to express something but couldn't do it vocally. But she's like, awesome.
High five. And we did a high five. It was a very weird thing
FAWN: initiating touch, [00:19:00] declaring it's safe to touch.
MATT: Exactly. So it was playful and it was professional, and it was clear and safe and a million other things. It showed that she recognized, I don't know what's the right word, recognized my kung fu recognized me, was willing to recognize me. Completely different culture. So for me, my big takeaway from all of this is just be conscious.
add touch your repertoire, but be deliberate and be careful and respectful.
FAWN: Okay?
MATT: That's where my head's at.
FAWN: , Oh, one other thing that I was reminded of this week. If you have anxiety, they call it a butterfly hug. So you take your right palm and you put it on your left shoulder.
Okay. And then the other one, so you take your left palm and put it on your right shoulder go up and down. If you have anxiety, do that for a few seconds. Interesting. And it takes you again and kind of, you kind of mentioned it earlier on, it takes [00:20:00] you back to being a baby. Oh, and being comforted or held, hopefully.
Nice. Hopefully. Hopefully. I mean, hopefully as babies you were comforted at some point. Someone comforted somebody. Alright, that's it everybody. Have a beautiful everyday. We'll talk to you soon.
MATT: Be well.
