“Why HALT Matters: Finding Calm in Friendship, Work, and Everyday Life”

H A L T FAWN: [00:00:00] All right. Welcome back to our friendly World everybody. Hello. MATT: Hello everyone. So when I was in college, I can remember there was a moment where there I was just sleeping away and I got woken up and I got woken up by, this was my freshman year. I lived in an apartment. God help us on campus, which still boggles the mind. Seven guys, we were the party apartment. Everything else, and like people would crash on our couch for extended periods of time and I woke up, I was awoken by noises in our living room, and it was one guy, and it was the one guy who was crashing on our couch and I was so tired. I went out there and I was like, Hey, and there was a bunch of people, but I directed myself at him. He was sitting in a chair in the corner, and I remember this. And he is like, what? [00:01:00] And I was so mad. Next thing I knew, I was like falling on him, trying to hurt him, and he very gently picked me up and pushed, basically ushered me out of the room and then it quieted down. But I was so tired and I acted like such an ass, and he didn't, even though he was crashing in her house, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. FAWN: Was he older? Yeah, he was. MATT: He was, I was a freshman and he was was how FAWN: much older? MATT: So I was 18 and he was probably like 22, 23? Yeah. FAWN: What was he doing there? MATT: Oh God. See, don't go into that. What's important is, I know it sounds fishy though. I got, uh, I got angry 'cause what I want, very suspicious. What I wanna talk about today is a really, really old acronym. Some people say it dates from 1941 of all times and it's called Halt, [00:02:00] and they use this all the time in, um, oh God, what do they call it when you're like, in aa, you're in substance abuse. Substance abuse programs. We'll use this acronym. Because people tend to use, people tend to make, let's say, bad decisions when they fall prey to one of the four, I guess in this case, deadly sins. So H.A.L.T is actually an acronym and it stands for hungry. FAWN: So are these the deadly sins? Yes. Being hungry is a deadly sin or something bad. As far as like keeping, don't make a decision as keeping yourself MATT: under control. FAWN: So don't make a decision if you're feeling any of these, right? Or MATT: rather. Take a moment, take a beat and figure out if you are feeling one of these things, and if you can fix one of these things. FAWN: Wait, do you have to fix only one MATT: or all of them? Ooh. Well, it depends on, I guess, where your head is at, but can we at least get to them? Okay. Yay. Anyways. [00:03:00] Um, so it's halt and it is hungry, angry, lonely, and tired. So when we're feeling I'm, I'm most of those all the time. One or most, one or more of those things, we gotta, we gotta figure out, maybe we need to, we need to address something. I mean, before, before we start causing a ruckus. FAWN: That's basically when the babies cry, you're like, okay, are they in pain? Yes. Are they like, you go down a list. Is it the diaper? You go, you go straight down the list. Exactly. It's hungry, dirty, like poopy, gassy. Right. Like, MATT: or overtired. FAWN: So we gotta go look at that for our own selves. Yes. As, as grown people. MATT: Yes. And, and look at it for people around us too. Is there a, do they have, are they potentially, particularly in our friends. Are they one of these four things or more of these four things? 'cause FAWN: Yeah, I mean, it, that goes back to a long time ago. I, I was talking about a story when I worked at the design firm [00:04:00] and one of the, uh, contractors or, uh, whatever he was, he would come in all the time and he was so mean to us and so mean to everyone. Mm-hmm. And the head designer, when the guy left one day, she was like, I bet you he's in a lot of pain. You know, that would explain why he's so. He behaves the way he does with us. Mm-hmm. And I think the next time around she questioned him a little bit, like asked him some questions. Right. And it turned out he was sick and he was in a lot of pain. And as soon as we understood that, or like that was acknowledged, he was the nicest to us. MATT: There you go. Because when somebody is seen, they tend to be nicer. So yes. I, I wanna take it just a level further, although the cuteness of, of this anagram acronym HALT is if you start to notice these things stop, halt what you're doing. So it's, it's very cutesy in that way, but it, it helps a person to [00:05:00] remember. But you're right. FAWN: But yeah, but like, like I said, I feel like just using myself as an example mm-hmm. It feels like I'm most of those all the time. Right. MATT: And I think a lot of us are. And so, and how FAWN: do you get out of it? MATT: Well, as the first step in dealing with an issue is acknowledging it exists. FAWN: I understand, but like you're still having to deal with so many things that are coming at you. Yes. And it's hard to. Uh, uh, steal away the time to even stop and go, oh, you know what? I'm angry, or I'm hungry, or I'm thirsty, or, oh MATT: dear, FAWN: do you know what I'm saying? And so what, yeah, I am, but I have to deal with whatever is in front of me, so it doesn't really help me. MATT: Yeah. But you don't have to, you can deal with what's in front of you and then maybe do some self care. FAWN: And if you never have time to do that, that's, I think that's the issue then that's a whole MATT: other problem. And FAWN: I think that's the issue for a lot of. [00:06:00] Mes out there, and I'm sorry, I don't mean to be all about me, but I'm only saying it that way mm-hmm. Because I don't wanna assume that about everyone. Right. What I was going to say is, is that that's the case for a lot of moms out there. True. But I don't wanna be like that because there are a lot of dads who you, for example, have a lot of responsibility and yours doesn't stop. Although I am the one who stays up all night with the kids when things are awry. MATT: That's because I physically can't stay awake past a certain point. FAWN: Okay. MATT: But is that fair? No. FAWN: Kids tend to unload on the mom or we've noticed it with our experience. They won't unload with a dad. Which is really interesting. And why is that? There were papers written about this, it's really interesting. But it's like, why is that? And my, my theory is because we're always the ones actually cleaning things up, and so emotional cleaning [00:07:00] as well. Like why, why is it that all the trauma dumping happens at night with me? Then I finally asked our youngest, I'm like, do you tell your dad everything that you tell me late at night? Like when you're totally frustrated and you're like, in the worst state possible? And our kid said no. MATT: And did you ask why? FAWN: Yeah. Um, I don't really actually, the, the answer was a little private. Okay. But, but. But they, I don't know. I think I was okay when I was talking to Wendy about it. They feel safer with us. They feel like, I think if they go to the dad, it will result in some sort of a fight. Either you'll fight with me or you'll fight with them. Do you know what I'm saying? I don't know. You have to ask our kid actually. Okay. I don't know. That's MATT: fair. FAWN: But I think, you know, I'm, I'm only voicing this because I feel like we're not the only [00:08:00] ones. Mm-hmm. But it's, it is just interesting. Did I veers away from the topic again? I think I did. Sorry. Alright. Back to what we were talking about. MATT: I'm not sure. We can't get back to where, what we were talking about. Oh FAWN: man, I do this to you every time. I'm so sorry. I'm not sorry. I'm tired of apologizing. There you go. All right. HALT: Hungry, MATT: angry, FAWN: wait, MATT: hungry. Angry. FAWN: Angry. Uhhuh. MATT: Lonely and tired. FAWN: Yep. All of the above. MATT: So if you're doing, if you're performing a behavior which could be construed as like self-destructive or destructive in general, you know, take a look. FAWN: Does Hungry fall into the category of food only, or is it you're hungry for something that you don't have MATT: and that's just it? Welcome to the next level. FAWN: Like is it desire or is it just food related? MATT: Right. Whereas I see hungry. The opposite of hungry [00:09:00] is not full. It's nourished. And nourished is a very open term. Spiritually. Physically, mentally nourished. FAWN: Hungry is really tricky because a lot of stress I think in the West you feel like you're hungry, but you're not hungry. You're actually thirsty, or you're stressed and you think you're hungry 'cause you're seeking comfort. Yes, MATT: you're not, you're not nourished. FAWN: And again, it's not physical MATT: and then angry. The polar opposite in my mind at least of angry is calm. And calm means you're not stressed, you're not heightened emotionally heightened in any way. And no, no, no. This was, this was important. No, I'm laughing because I just FAWN: saw something, MATT: I'm sorry. Go ahead. Okay. I worked in disaster management for, so like if there's like. God help us. Hopefully not. But if there's a, you know, a flood or there's a tornado, or [00:10:00] there's a whatever, there's software written for that to coordinate all the emergency responses with the federal, with the, with the, with right. I worked on that, and I would always describe it as when people are using our software, they are heightened. So everything needs to be beyond clear and as calming as we can possibly make it in the face of an emergency. So don't give them 25 million lines of code or 25 million lines of text to look at when they just need to see a green light, a yellow light, and a red light. 'cause that is immediately intuitive that I need to focus there. I might need to focus there. That's okay. FAWN: So simple directions, simple. Like when our kids were little, you're like, look at that. When. When parents take their kids to restaurants and, or, you know, someplace where you order something. Mm-hmm. You don't give them the whole list of the menu. You turn to your little kid and you go, there's chocolate or vanilla. Which one do you want? [00:11:00] That's it because it, it removes the stress and it just, it's MATT: simple. Theoretically, they're, the decision they make is going to be the right one. To them. Mm-hmm. Because it's simple, right? I mean, there's no over want strawberry or cherry. Whoa. That's a tough one. FAWN: That's a, well, I, I laughed because I didn't know really what we were gonna talk about. Mm-hmm. But this thing popped up on my Instagram. Oh. And it was something like, you know, when your central system is healthy when this happens. Like when you're calm. Mm-hmm. And it's, it was, I guess, uh, a ring camera footage of this couple. They get outta the car, it's icy, snowy outside Uhhuh, and the car just starts rolling away. And they both just calmly kind of the, the woman just looks like, oh, well, and then the guy kind of looks the same. Mm-hmm. And he waits until the [00:12:00] car stops and he calmly walks and. Gets the car, you know? Nice. And I'm like, oh, if that was me, I would've been a cartoon. Right? Jumping up and down, freaking out. Well, I'm MATT: seeing my legs going this way and that way in the ice and falling on my butt. And then being like, ow. And just like, it's just a God awful thing. FAWN: Oh, well. MATT: Right. FAWN: Or like we're waiting for it to stop. MATT: Right. FAWN: Much like an argument, right? Like just let it, let the person vent. MATT: Mm-hmm. Just listen calmly. FAWN: Although that got me in trouble with our kid, I tried to listen calmly and that backfired too by the way. Why are you so calm? Why aren't you saying anything after I was being yelled at because I always try to interject something. MATT: Yes. Well, we're, we're in that, you know, there. I think all people enter this world where they get involved in a conversation and they cannot be right no matter what they do. Right. And so you just kind of [00:13:00] maybe let it go. Anyways. So then lonely. The opposite of lonely is, you know, frankly to me it's connected. Are you connected to, are you centered? Are you connected inside of your home, your community, your circle of friends, your, you know, do you feel like you are in there, FAWN: obviously, because we have the podcast, we have, what I'm gonna say is, for me, I think- in my opinion, lonely is the most dangerous one. MATT: Mm-hmm. FAWN: Because you can still be hungry and you'll be okay. You are hungry. Okay. Unless it's like devastation and you're starving about to die. I'm not talking about that. But like even anger, I think it stems from feeling like you are the only one. No one gets you right. Uh, what was the other one? Uh, "T". What's "T?" Tired. Tired? Yeah. Even tired. You're less tired when you have support, when [00:14:00] you have people around you that have your back. So I think being lonely is the most volatile of them all because you feel special. Special in that you are the only one going through this. You are the only one here, right? No one is with you. No one's on your side, right? There's no one. And then you also, I mean, on many levels, if you wanna get into the spiritual realm of it, that there is no God, there's no other force out there. It's just you. Mm-hmm. And it's not true. But that feeling I think is the most dangerous one, which is why we have this podcast, MATT: which is again, yes. And then lastly, tired. The opposite of tired is attentive. And I've certainly beaten. Beaten on the drum of pay attention. Pay attention. Pay attention. And it's true. What FAWN: do you mean pay attention to what? Pay MATT: attention to everything. Pay attention to how you're feeling. Pay attention to. Pay attention to how you're feeling. Pay attention to where you are. Pay attention to where you want to be. [00:15:00] Pay attention to, you know, the things your friends say, pay attention to even the things your friends not say- you know, the people around you aren't saying, but it's really hard to do if you're tired. FAWN: Yeah. MATT: So, yes, opposite of tired is attentive, FAWN: and again, feeling alone. You are very myopic, aren't you? You're not able to pay attention to anything else but yourself Sometimes. Yes, because you're, it's just you, so you don't see any other perspective, MATT: right? That is true. FAWN: You don't think well. You know, um, who is it? Uh, was it this, what is it, what psychology thing is it that when you're having a panic attack, they make you go through the list. Like, um, look around you and find everything that is blue. Do you know what I'm saying? They make you do these things right, where it takes you away from the panic. MATT: Mm-hmm. FAWN: It's kind of like that to me. Um, and there you go. When you feel lonely, you [00:16:00] can't do that. Everything is so myopic that you don't see anything. You don't hear anything. But if you are able to step outside of yourself and notice the birds are chirping, or the wind is blowing or mm-hmm the clouds are pretty, or hearing something that's there for you, like a message, you don't get any of that when you feel completely alone because all your senses are turned off. That's what takes you away from the actual reality. The reality of like, there's a whole world in front of you. there's so much possibility right there for you, or you have the ability to even just think, you know what, this is what I want right now. MATT: Mm-hmm. FAWN: And then looking around because it will show up for you if you order it. MATT: Right. And all your dreams will come true. FAWN: Well, no, not all [00:17:00] the time, but, but they never MATT: do, FAWN: but they do. MATT: Well, it depends on what you're ordering. If you're ordering from Amazon, it's a little different than ordering from, you know, sending it, sending your desires out into the universe. FAWN: You don't think the, that you get your desires from the universe? MATT: No. Well, that's just it. Yes, you do. You don't necessarily get them from Amazon, FAWN: right? MATT: That's all. FAWN: You have a, a weird way to explain things sometimes. MATT: I do. I'm sorry. FAWN: No, don't apologize. I'm just now seeing that I'm like, because sometimes my, my attention span goes away. I am like, don't, what did Matt say? I don't know, but I'm now gonna say this. I think that's why I sometimes, oh dear. I changed the topic. Oh, dear. Because I don't, it doesn't register in my brain, what you just said. Like, I don't get it. Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay. Alright. What else? Anything else? MATT: Not much else. I hopefully, I think not much more to say. Just welcome to a acronym from like 1941 that's used in [00:18:00] substance abuse. So now we're throwing substance abuse programs at you. Folks. Um, but yeah, so we FAWN: can't go make t-shirts out there that say Halt. Halt. MATT: Well, we halt, I say. We might be able to, I don't know, might have fallen from popular vernacular, I'm not sure. But, uh, anyways, if you happen to notice that you're acting in a way that maybe you don't like, maybe walk through halt and see if you're feeling any of those things. FAWN: Maybe we should have these shirts out because I mean, when I'm in that situation, I don't think, oh, well, let me think now. Don't. Lemme go through my checklist. I don't MATT: hungry, angry, lonely, or tired. FAWN: You know, that's, I mean, that's what I do for our kids. I'm like. When was the last time you ate? Are you thirsty? And then they'll get really mad at me. It's not about that. MATT: And then they'll eat and then they'll be cool. Then they'll mellow out. FAWN: Oh yeah. Like they, they're like, oh my God. I didn't know how, how hungry I was. Huh? I'm like, you're hangry right now. There you go. [00:19:00] By you. But maybe if there's like a t-shirt you could remind somebody, right? Like, oh, wait a minute. Ah, MATT: anyways. Okay. FAWN: Okay. MATT: Be well, everyone FAWN: have a, have a wonderful every day. We'll talk to you soon. Bye-bye.