Episode Transcript
FAWN: [00:00:00] Dear Mel and Amy, Thank you for reaching out to us and thinking of us when we went quiet
For the first time, in six years. When we began this podcast, I couldn't record. I simply didn't have it in me. At first, I thought that meant I had failed, but maybe, maybe silence was also part of the lesson
And inside of that lesson, I was reminded of a friend who said something that actually sounds very mean, so I'm going to reword it. But the example my friend gave to me, this was a long time ago when I was a kid. He was a little bit older than I was, but he told me that you constantly have to prune your garden, taking out the, I'm using his, his word, weeds, quote-unquote, "weeds" And the lesson was that not every plant belongs in every garden, and you constantly [00:01:00] have to take care of it by pruning it. So that's the lesson that we're talking about today in regards to friendship. Thank you for joining us. Here we go
We're back. Welcome back, everybody. Hey, hey. This is Fawn and Matt. Question: how do we know who belongs in our inner circle?
Discovering that some people you expected to stand beside you could not, and seeing that quiet, long-term forever friends, they're the ones who have your back And that love is measured less by proximity than presence. Every person, every person has value. Every encounter matters, but not every relationship is equally nourishing. Love for another person and wisdom about boundaries can coexist. So the past month, life became [00:02:00] heavier than I expected.
Some relationships disappointed me deeply. Others surprised me by becoming sources of extraordinary kindness. And, um, I was reminded of the non-existence of time and that friendship measures beyond distance. And the friends who are with you in and out of time are the ones who help carry your heart And
there's a knowing that they have They know truly right from wrong, fact from fiction, clarity from delusion, calm from chaos. The friends, the ones who, the ones, the friends whose voices are the calm melody that soothe you and guide you back to a safe ground. These are the friends who naturally help you become [00:03:00] more of what you were created to be
We do that for each other naturally. They don't always agree with us
But help us see and experience truth. A kind of friendship that has courage, compassion, dignity, respect. The kind of friendship rooted in spirituality And then going back to the whole gardening, pruning your garden metaphor, metaphor?
MATT: Yes.
FAWN: Example, whatever you wanna call it
Pruning looks violent. It seems backwards when you're looking at it. You're cutting away healthy branches. Why? Because the gardener can see something the branch cannot. By removing some growth, the entire plant becomes healthier. Some relationships are like that, not because the person is evil, not because you are better than them, but because your soul needs room to grow
So amongst the many things that I've been thinking about [00:04:00] the past month and just not having it in me to even speak really-
MATT: Right ...
FAWN: this is something I've been thinking about And you and I haven't really had a chance to talk that much, but here we go. What are your thoughts?
MATT: Kaboom. Yes I
FAWN: mean, you know, the whole- Well, first-
pruning the garden of- Weeds ... weeds. I know. And, and I understand- It's wrong to call people weeds because everyone has value.
MATT: Right. I mean, I prefer a perhaps a little healthier of a metaphor, like redwood trees are beautiful things, but you don't necessarily want it in your garden or- Mm ... you know, cactuses thrive in the desert, but they don't necessarily thrive in the Pacific Northwest.
Um-
FAWN: Yeah ... and that kind of thing It's about, it's about climate. There are so many factors involved, and so it doesn't mean that all of that co- can coexist at the same time- Right ... in the same place. But when you notice these things, without, uh, getting hurt or when you do get hurt, to just remind [00:05:00] yourself,
If you're trying to grow, I don't know, what would you try? And we're not actually gardeners, so I don't know. When you're trying to grow, I don't know, a watermelon, you can't grow a redwood tree in that same spot or in the same plot, right? Can you? I don't know.
MATT: I doubt it.
FAWN: I don't know. Maybe we're j- I don't know.
MATT: I doubt it. I don't know. Let's just go with that. I don't know. I don't know.
FAWN: The, the redwood tree is so big, I don't know if there would be room for your little plot of land to grow-
MATT: See, I
FAWN: happen to know- ... a watermelon ... a little
MATT: bit about redwood trees, but I don't wanna go spearing off into random directions.
FAWN: I mean, they need more space. They're very prominent.
MATT: Yes.
FAWN: Right?
MATT: Yeah, and they, they do- would dominate-
FAWN: Dominating ...
MATT: any particular scheme- ... I think. But yeah.
FAWN: So anyway, hmm.
MATT: Uh, I, I always hold space open for friends to amaze. I always hold space open, sadly, for friends to [00:06:00] disappoint. I don't, I don't direct in that, but I don't...
I'm not surprised by it either.
FAWN: Well, what was happening with us, with, with the whole family and just, just in general, just everything, and I was just burnt out. I, um, hmm. There was one day in particular when things were so bad, and I reached out to a bunch of people, and I really didn't, you know... Like I, I said, "Hey, can you pray for us, please?" And all of a sudden, I, um, uh, I got too much, and I was searching for help i- such a big way that all of a sudden I got all kinds of loud voices, and I felt like I was getting yelled at, and, and people's opinions and people's own traumas Came into play with everything that I seriously could not make one decision
MATT: Been there
FAWN: I was [00:07:00] stuck, and I was hearing two different, completely different forms of advice for one thing.
so what happened was Throughout the day and towards the end of the day, I ended up getting so much help. And really, what really brought me back was, like I was saying, the quiet voices of friends that have known me since I was a kid. So they know everything, and their voices, it's not that I was wanting to hear what they were saying.
Do you know what I'm saying? It's not that they were saying things that I wanted to hear, because usually they d- they disagree with me on pretty much everything, right? But it's done in such a gentle way that I always grow from it.
MATT: Mm-hmm.
FAWN: You know, the other way around, too. It's, it's, it's pretty symbiotic.
But their voices were the calm voices in the crazy storm that was happening, and everyone else was yelling Yet their voices were so [00:08:00] calm and nourishing and confident and courageous. It literally brought me back to safety, brought us all back to safety, and we were able to make the right decisions. And that's what I wanted to talk about today, that kind of friendship I mean, I guess I, I was gonna say that's how we should be, but we can't always be that. But there are some people in your life, even if you think you don't have any friends, even if you think it, that, that you're alone, it's really not true. There's always... I guarantee you, there is someone around And maybe they're new.
Maybe it's an old friend from another time period, from another dimension. But we're old friends and new friends at the same time. Like two people showed up Amongst the friends that I'm talking about, those two of them totally new, have never spoken to them before, who helped so much, and I'm so grateful.
And it reminds me [00:09:00] that help is always there, that friendship is always around you. You may have not met them before, but guaranteed they will show up You have to ask. And by asking, it could just be a thought, a desire. This is what I want in my life
MATT: Right.
FAWN: Back to you, Matt, while I sip some water. This is stressing me out.
MATT: Kind of re-going through it all, I suppose. Um, yeah. Yeah, I mean, you're basically you're building such a, a, a wonderful kind of... I don't know what's the right word for it. The, the construction is so elegant, it's a little tricky to figure out where I can actually add value.
FAWN: What do you mean? You mean my speech?
MATT: Yes.
FAWN: Really? It was elegant?
MATT: Yes.
FAWN: Aw. That feels good. Don't roll your eyes. No, it feels good 'cause I've been feeling anything but elegant. Especially lately. What's the opposite of [00:10:00] elegant? Non-elegant. Inelegant. Inel- no, there's another word. Whatever that word is, I've definitely been feeling that. So that's good to hear.
Thanks, honey. That's nice. But, um, did I mention to say thank you? Did I say thank you to Mel and Amy?
MATT: At, right at the start.
FAWN: And that's another thing. Like, I was feeling like, " Why am I even bothering podcasting? What am I, what am I doing?" Like, I just, who cares? Nobody cares. And I just didn't have it in me. So I was crying a lot, and I just was in my space, like quiet.
Like- Mm ... didn't wanna go out, just, just wanted to just cry and watch, romantic comedies on TV by myself, which I would cry during, 'cause it's my way to release- Right ... you know?
MATT: Yeah, absolutely. It's [00:11:00] important to release emotions- But like- ... release stress ...
FAWN: and, and thinking, "Well, who cares? No one's listening."
And then people reached out. They're like, "Whoa. You, you haven't posted. Where's the podcast?" And I'm like, "Wow, you actually care? Oh my God, you're listening?" What? And then I felt bad 'cause I'm like, "Okay, we'll be there next week." And I, and I just couldn't do it. Right. Week after week, I just still couldn't. Um, so Mel, you're so sweet.
Thank you. Amy, thank you so much for calling me, reaching out to me. It really means a lot when you guys make comments about our podcast or, like, what we say. It's really appreciated. You know? Sometimes you do things and you're like, "This is stupid." And then people are like, "No. This is great." What?
MATT: Nothing.
Nothing. I [00:12:00] mean, the ripples that we cause by- Being literally extend and you never know where they're actually end up and, and who hears and who's helped and who's, um, given, who, who receives some of the presence. You know? Literally you don't know. In the same way that oftentimes getting advice from a friend, they don't necessarily realize how important it was in that moment-
FAWN: Mm-hmm
MATT: for you.
FAWN: Mm-hmm.
MATT: To hear that calm voice, as you said.
FAWN: Mm-hmm.
MATT: The calm, quiet voice.
FAWN: The ones who know you, the ones who know and who have good perspective, and they're courageous. I can't tell you how many cowards I'm acr- I've come across the past few years. Like cowards, like not willing to help even with like just some words of encouragement [00:13:00] because they don't wanna be liable for saying something or...
You know what I'm saying? Or they don't wanna be, um, out and saying, "You know what? Despite what's going on, I actually agree with you." Do you know what I'm saying? Because it's not politically correct or it's, it's just against the social norm at the moment, by the way. It's, um, what do you call it? Like it's not in vogue to have this opinion or do y- if you're going through something and-
MATT: Right
FAWN: just, you know, just cowards. I just, it just really makes me sad. Anyway, um, so well, I totally forgot I had a point.
MATT: And I- So have an opinion. Speak. Speak your truths.
FAWN: Well, just, you know, to have, to have a sense of security... Excuse me. To have a sense of [00:14:00] security and some depth and wisdom and confidence and compassion You know, putting all that together for yourself and for other people, I think it changes everything rather than falling prey to whatever's happening, in the world at that second.
You know, falling prey to whatever propaganda everyone's being fed, and not looking at someone individually and saying, "Okay, I see you. I feel you." And, putting away the judgment that we're all expected to have. Like, you better judge this, judge that. I, um, I'm done. I'm done dealing with people like that.
So that's why I went... I just was like, I just don't have it in me to really t- talk, because the disappointment of coming face to face with that all the time-
MATT: Mm-hmm ...
FAWN: it's [00:15:00] exhausting. I got really tired
I mean, and then I got angry, and then I got really tired
and when, when these few friends actually were talking to me, especially that day, I'm trying to explain it. It was completely a spiritual experience for me. It was in and out of time. They're all thousands of miles away, but we've known each other for decades.
MATT: Mm-hmm.
FAWN: And their voices and their knowledge and their confidence in what was going on and what the next move needs to be I am so grateful for that
MATT: Right. Right, and you said these people have known you for decades.
FAWN: Yeah. W- But two of them did not. Two of them were brand new that day. But like I said, it was a spiritual experience because it was like a coming together of family. Like, they knew me, they knew the [00:16:00] situation.
MATT: Mm-hmm.
FAWN: And they were right there to help.
Other people were like, "I don't wanna get involved. You should do this." And that thing was definitely the wrong decision, but I couldn't see, I couldn't see what the right decision was. Do you understand what I'm saying? Well,
MATT: yeah, you were way too emotionally connected.
FAWN: And, and I was trying to not be at the same time, I was trying to be completely neutral-
MATT: Right
FAWN: and go, "Okay, I don't wanna be emotional about it. I wanna make the right decision." And when you have just, when, when you have so much coming at you, you're on overwhelm. You just keep going around in circles, and it's so nice to be anchored in... Not anchored, but like... No, not anchored. I felt like I was in a storm at sea with the wind howling, with constant getting smashed by water waves, that these [00:17:00] voices, like, just these friends, their advice, their, their help completely blanketed me, like, away from the storm, and literally took me away and put me in a safe space, and we made the right decisions.
So anyway, that's what I wanna say. I don't know if that helps. You know, sometimes I just use our personal experience without giving you exact details of what we're actually talking about because it really doesn't matter. That's the gist of it. I hope, I hope this helps in some way, and if it's not resonating right now, maybe in the future, y- what you hear today will stay with you and remind you that you, you're always...
You're, you always have help handy. There, it's always right there. And you [00:18:00] know it's the right one for you when it's a calm. A calm voice, a calm hand, a very, um, confident, powerful calm. A long time ago, a friend said, "Do you know the difference of some, a thought that's g- uh, God-given rather than a normal thought?
Do you... Like a dir- a direction. Do you know which one would be from God?" She was a spiritual person. I'm like, "I don't know." She said, she said, "The one that uplifts you. You immediate- you immediately feel uplifted by it. That's the right decision." It was something like that. It was a long time ago she said this.
MATT: Mm-hmm.
FAWN: But, uh, and I'm not, you know, I don't remember her exact words, but that's, that's the gist of it, and that's what happened, and I wanted to share that with you all today. Matt, do you [00:19:00] have anything to share besides that? 'Cause I do have a closing thought.
MATT: Okay.
FAWN: But I don't wanna interrupt you, so.
MATT: No, no, no.
Go ahead.
FAWN: Okay. So- This is what I wanna leave with today. Um, sometimes, sometimes God doesn't only speak through words
Sometimes, sometimes He restores us in the quiet, and maybe our job isn't to collect as many friends as possible. Maybe our job is to become the kind of garden where kindness grows and then have the wisdom to know which relationships help that garden flourish
That's it for me
MATT: Okay
FAWN: Um, thank you for listening. Here we are.
MATT: Be well, everyone
FAWN: Um, have a lovely every day. Talk to you soon
MATT: Bye-bye
