Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] FAWN: Hi, everybody. Welcome back to our friendly world. Hello. Listen.
[00:00:05] MATT: Yes? Oh my god, what? Shh.
[00:00:11] FAWN: Have you heard of loud quitting?
[00:00:13] MATT: I showed you loud quitting.
[00:00:15] FAWN: I showed you loud quitting. Whoa. Oh my, oh, wait. Oh, okay. He's right. Oh, wait, wait. Hold on. Hold on. He's right. This was like 20 years ago. Within the first
[00:00:24] MATT: 30 seconds. I'm already right. It was, it was like 20
[00:00:29] FAWN: Okay. This was a very long time ago. A very long time ago.
[00:00:32] FAWN: Oh my God.
[00:00:34] MATT: In internet time, it was like infinity ago.
[00:00:37] FAWN: It was like 20 years ago. No, it was like 17, maybe 18 years ago.
[00:00:42] MATT: Is that when Sgt. Pepper taught the band to play?
[00:00:44] FAWN: So listen, I want to bring this back to friendship. Because have you ever loud quitted a friendship? All right, let's go back to explaining what loud quitting is, but the original loud quitter.
[00:00:58] FAWN: Can you tell us the [00:01:00] story again, Matt?
[00:01:00] MATT: Oh my God. So I only partake in a few sites, um, frequently on the interwebs. And one of those sites every Friday, there's links. And one of the links posted was a video of a guy quitting his job. And it was, I don't, I think it was just a, think of it as a generic office job.
[00:01:20] MATT: I don't know what the job was. But
[00:01:24] FAWN: it was kind of like the office, the movie, you know, like, wasn't it like office space, like dread? Oh, yeah. Office space. Yeah. Well, it was a dreadful, everything
[00:01:34] MATT: was beige and everybody wore down shirts,
[00:01:38] FAWN: sucking khakis.
[00:01:41] MATT: But the guy was like, okay, he was fed up. He was quitting.
[00:01:43] MATT: So instead of just marching into his boss's office and shouting, I quit
[00:01:48] FAWN: well before that explain the whole concept of Why you felt the need to do that. Should we explain why? Remember, because you said you can never [00:02:00] get satisfaction when you quit, when you're being wronged and you quit because the boss or the other opposing person will always have the last say.
[00:02:10] FAWN: Yeah,
[00:02:10] MATT: you were a terrible employee or I was going to fire you anyways. You'll never find this good of a job again.
[00:02:19] FAWN: Yeah, they'll always say, and this comes with relationships too. When it's really
[00:02:23] MATT: a toxic environment. Yes. I've had opportunities where I've quit, and everybody was completely lovely.
[00:02:30] FAWN: Oh my god, you're right.
[00:02:31] FAWN: Me too, me too. Like, showered with gifts, and like, cries and hugs, like, It just We love you. It just on the whole depends. You're right. If it's a toxic situation, the other person
[00:02:42] MATT: The boss is gonna make you try and feel like crap. Right.
[00:02:46] FAWN: And
[00:02:46] MATT: even when it's a friendly situation, they can still make you feel like crap.
[00:02:49] MATT: Yes. Like, how could you do this to me?
[00:02:51] FAWN: So this is the reason why this was done. So I'm sorry, please go. So
[00:02:55] MATT: he wanted to get to. And the thing is, is that'll bring [00:03:00] you down for like days if you're not a stoic um, if you're not, um, you know, if somebody tells you you suck, it's a hard thing to hear.
[00:03:08] FAWN: Not even days, it's forever sometimes.
[00:03:10] FAWN: Sometimes, yes. It'll stay with you.
[00:03:12] MATT: So, this guy, and no doubt he had connections, but, he brought a marching band with him. And we're talking like brass section and trombones, and they dressed in their marching attire. Uniform. So this is like, it felt like a high school band and he went into his boss and his boss sees the marching band with him and he has no idea what's about to happen and he says, I'm fed up and I quit and he throws a piece of paper down on his desk, which is probably his resignation letter.
[00:03:47] MATT: And as soon as he throws it down, the band begins to play. And they play this upbeat song, I don't even know what the song was, but it was upbeat, like an upbeat marching song.
[00:03:57] FAWN: And then they march out.
[00:03:58] MATT: And then they, and then he, [00:04:00] and then he left through the marching band and they all followed him out.
[00:04:04] FAWN: That, I don't know why that makes me so happy.
[00:04:07] MATT: Well, it was a nice, think about like, when the saints come marching in. Ba na na na, da na na na, ba na na na na na na na na.
[00:04:16] FAWN: And then I hear like the cymbals.
[00:04:18] MATT: Yeah, and the cymbals were really loud. And the drums, everything was very loud. What's that
[00:04:22] FAWN: instrument? It's a horn, it's a thing that like Trombone slides out.
[00:04:26] FAWN: That's the
[00:04:26] MATT: trombone.
[00:04:28] FAWN: It's a big middle finger in a way. You know what I'm saying? In a way. Oh my god. I just feel so happy every time I remember that story. And I have never even seen this video. Right. It was just your description of it the first time. Years ago. It was so funny. It's the only, it,
[00:04:45] MATT: it, and it felt like the only way you could get away with that other than maybe in this day of the internet, if you quit on your Zoom chat, you could just mute the person or you could just immediately disconnect and just never speak with them again.
[00:04:59] MATT: Don't [00:05:00] know.
[00:05:00] FAWN: Well then we experienced slow quitting. What was it called? Or quiet quitting?
[00:05:05] MATT: There was quiet, yeah. Like where
[00:05:07] FAWN: people would still go to work but they wouldn't do anything and then they, They transition themselves out, right? Right. So now I've been hearing people are loud quitting and I'm like, oh more more marching bands No, it's just people complaining Or maybe even having are they complaining
[00:05:24] MATT: without quitting though?
[00:05:25] FAWN: They're complaining about their jobs and they're filming themselves going to the boss and quitting or filming themselves as they're about to resign and then They explain on video all their grievances about this job. And when I heard that, I thought, Well, you know what? If I was a business person, I would not hire that person.
[00:05:49] FAWN: It's just unprofessional. However, I would hire the marching band guy. Because it was still respectful. He didn't say anything bad about the company. He just didn't want to [00:06:00] hear.
[00:06:00] MATT: So it's the outlining of all the grievances that's the problem. Yeah,
[00:06:03] FAWN: because, you know what? First of all, it's private information for the company.
[00:06:07] MATT: It could be sensitive, too. Yeah,
[00:06:08] FAWN: it's sensitive. And also, I'm a firm believer that the way you leave something is exactly how you're taking that same dynamic energy. To something that you're about to start so you need to come to terms with what you're leaving behind and be thankful for it to the moment you're in right now to go into this new position.
[00:06:35] FAWN: That's why I have never been a huge partier at New Year's is because I'm never going to condemn the last year and say, F you, whatever year it is. Yay for this year. It's like, wow, you said that exact same thing about the year before, and now you're complaining about it. It's just. It just, to me, says more about that person as a bad [00:07:00] influence, rather than the year is the bad influence, or the job is the bad influence. It gets even worse
[00:07:06] MATT: when you start feeling more Einsteinian and really thinking about time as being a fourth dimension. Because you're saying this about the future. You know, and you are saying yay 2025, boo 2025 in the same breath as far as maybe the universe is concerned.
[00:07:26] FAWN: Exactly. So
[00:07:27] MATT: what is it you're looking for? I'm glad to be done with that. Woohoo. What are you saying?
[00:07:34] FAWN: Instead of being thankful. It's saying that it's all crap.
[00:07:38] MATT: Maybe. Or at least it's all, like, milk toast. It's all just kind of there. Right. It's not exciting. You're not, you're not going forward to the future.
[00:07:48] MATT: You're just You are, but then you're also bitching about it. Uh oh, I cursed.
[00:07:53] FAWN: It's like, it's like you buy these beautiful clothes and as soon as they need to be [00:08:00] laundered, you condemn it and you throw it on the ground. Or you buy some beautiful
[00:08:05] MATT: clothes and you just immediately throw them on the ground.
[00:08:06] MATT: You
[00:08:06] FAWN: discard this thing that is still wonderful. Just because it just needs to be taken care of and respected.
[00:08:16] MATT: Or maybe mended, or who knows. I
[00:08:18] FAWN: mean, it clothed you. Right. Anyway, so, have you ever allowed quited in a friendship?
[00:08:27] MATT: I've gotten advice.
[00:08:29] FAWN: Well, I remember. Remember I was pregnant. And it was my first time being pregnant.
[00:08:36] FAWN: Our first child. And I All of a sudden my BS meter was like, I had no room. So if I saw any kind of shenanigans or something that didn't sit right, it just came out of me. Like I would just say it. There was no hiding my emotions. It was out in the open. I felt so, [00:09:00] um, I don't know what the word for it is. I was going to say impatient, but it was just like, I don't have time for this.
[00:09:06] FAWN: This is some BS. And I just moved on. And it, uh, it was the end of a few friendships when I was pregnant. And, um, and I remember, I, I, I couldn't take all the stuff these people were doing. I'm like, this is not good for me. It's not good for my family and I don't want my child in this. I'm done with these people.
[00:09:32] FAWN: And they probably felt that way about me. Do you know what I'm saying? Because I no longer was Participating in whatever we were participating in before. So I was alien to them all of a sudden, I'm sure. I started acting different and they didn't like it. And also, not only acting different, but like, almost, like, very loud in their face about it.
[00:09:56] FAWN: Pointing out my grievances about them. [00:10:00] Which I shouldn't have done, because it's, you know, maybe it wasn't the kindest thing to do. But, our friendship was breaking and I remember They pulled the last stunt and I was done and I knew that they were done too but I still called and as I was doing it I was realizing how stupid it was, how comical it was, but I had to do it because I didn't want the rage in my body and I called and I left a voicemail and I said, I am breaking up with you!
[00:10:33] FAWN: You hear me? I am ending this with you! And I hung up. And as I was doing it, I'm like, oh, this is so stupid.
[00:10:42] MATT: And this is one of those parallels to romantic relationships, too. Friendships and romantic relationships both involve a certain kind of symbiosis. They're both very Interesting relationships.
[00:10:54] FAWN: I wanted to have my own marching band moment.
[00:10:57] FAWN: Mm hmm. Which is why it was a voicemail, too. Which is why you [00:11:00] leave it on someone's answering machine or voicemail
[00:11:02] MATT: or Or you just text them and then you delete them or block them or
[00:11:06] FAWN: But you know what? As stupid as it was, and I was having an out of body experience as I was doing it, cause I'm like, oh, they're so gonna replay this and just laugh at me with all their friends, right?
[00:11:18] FAWN: And I'm like, I don't even care. And to this day, I feel good about it. I'm glad I did it. Every time I think about it, and I don't know if this is correct, but I'm so happy I did that. It's not in my body. I feel uplifted. I feel like I can breathe every time I think of me doing that because it's so unlike me to do that right Matt.
[00:11:39] FAWN: It is I it I will Never do that. I just disappear if someone really wrongs me. I am NOT going to get into a confrontation I'm not going to fight usually I Disappear
[00:11:52] MATT: because the other person will make you feel like crap hence loud quitting.
[00:11:55] FAWN: Yeah
[00:11:59] FAWN: [00:12:00] So how about you? Like, it doesn't have to be a fight. It just has to be, I don't know, I guess it could be a fight. Whatever loud quitting is to you.
[00:12:09] MATT: I'm trying to think I'm having a hard time.
[00:12:11] MATT: I think that's why people slam doors. Maybe. Like, it's like a gesture, the loud noise, the it's a, a metaphor. Okay.
[00:12:21] MATT: Yeah, I know, I'm trying to think about who I've slammed doors on. I guess I'm not a slammer.
[00:12:25] FAWN: I think, You're kind of like me, like you just leave. Sometimes. Like I'm thinking about that guy that totally stole your code. Oh, point. You're right.
[00:12:35] MATT: Yes, and yeah, I just kind of, I walked away from that. Gave him back his, yeah. Gave him back something that he had lent me and threw his mail slot and that was it.
[00:12:46] FAWN: Right.
[00:12:46] MATT: Yeah, and then never contacted him again. And, yeah, he never tried either. But going
[00:12:50] FAWN: back to the loud quitting,
[00:12:53] MATT: Mm hmm.
[00:12:54] FAWN: Unless it's, it's, I don't know, Help me out here, Matt, because there has to [00:13:00] be an unless clause to it. But one of the reasons why I don't like loud quitting, like, let's say a job, is because you should always leave a place better than you found it.
[00:13:12] MATT: For the most part. Yeah.
[00:13:13] FAWN: So For these kids that are quitting jobs like that by airing their dirty laundry and the company's dirty laundry out there like that You're not leaving a place better than you found it unless you're a whistleblower and you're trying to help But then you're
[00:13:29] MATT: not loud quitting.
[00:13:31] MATT: You're not like screaming at them You're screaming at a regulatory agency or right
[00:13:37] FAWN: So that, would you consider that? You wouldn't consider that loud quitting? No,
[00:13:41] MATT: I would call that probably something closer to maybe responsible quitting. If you're truly on the side of right.
[00:13:47] FAWN: Right.
[00:13:47] MATT: And then stupid quitting if you're not.
[00:13:49] FAWN: Okay,. So we're talking about just quitting. Your own grievances against the other person's grievances. When you're airing out something that doesn't [00:14:00] affect the collective, it's your own personal issue, you're just making a mess of things. Right. And you're not leaving a situation better. Chances are, if you want to call it karma, whatever you want to call it, you're going to relive that situation until you get to a point where you move on to the next situation without all that turmoil and without all that charge to anything.
[00:14:23] FAWN: It is, it is
[00:14:23] MATT: very possible.
[00:14:25] FAWN: So, And, you know, leave a place better than you found it. Right.
[00:14:30] MATT: And honestly, if you feel like you truly have grievances and you can't figure out what to do and everything else, quit. That's fine. You should. Find a newer, apparently better job, because you never know if it's better until you're there, before you do quit, and then post something on Glassdoor.
[00:14:47] MATT: I mean, come on. This is pretty simple stuff.
[00:14:51] FAWN: But I'm also thinking of, in terms of friendship, right? How do you do that?
[00:14:55] MATT: Right. How do you ha There is no reputation index for friendship, other [00:15:00] than, what, going onto somebody's feet and poisoning them? I don't even know.
[00:15:05] FAWN: Even if it's not a friendship, like, so, something that's been happening to me, consistently, and, you know, our oldest kid brings this up too, like, I can't believe mom, how they treat you.
[00:15:19] FAWN: Like, that's crazy. And she's been my witness to, A fair number of crazy grievances from getting mistreated at the grocery store by obvious, like, I would call them racists, you know, whatever. They have a problem with the way I am.
[00:15:36] Right.
[00:15:37] FAWN: Where I come from. I don't know what their notion of me is, but they're not happy about it.
[00:15:43] FAWN: And the kids have experienced that since they were babies. So I always had to explain to them and people get on my case, by the way, about, Oh, you expose your kids to that. I'm like, excuse me, my kids were already exposed to it as I was being confronted by these mean spirited, [00:16:00] ugly behaviors. So you want me to ignore that?
[00:16:05] FAWN: That traumatizes the kids. Do you know what I'm saying? And lets them know it's okay for me to get treated like that. Mm hmm. If I don't explain to the kids what was actually happening. Why did this man get in my face for no reason as I'm reaching for an apple at the grocery store to get an inch away from my mouth and in a very sarcastic way say, Hola!
[00:16:30] FAWN: And walk away. Like what the, that wasn't, that was, it felt so Demeaning and like it was an accost, an acco, how do you say that word? You
[00:16:40] MATT: were verbally assaulted.
[00:16:42] FAWN: I felt you were accosted.
[00:16:44] MATT: Accosted, but you were verbally assaulted.
[00:16:46] FAWN: And I love the Spanish language, but the way he did it
[00:16:50] MATT: Right.
[00:16:51] FAWN: Did not have any ounce of love or respect about it.
[00:16:56] FAWN: Right. Um, and you know, most people when they see [00:17:00] me, they think I'm a migrant worker from Mexico, and they're pissed that I'm in their space. You know, how dare I be in the same grocery store as they are, shopping, you know, with them, is, is how it feels like to me, like, I don't deserve to be there.
[00:17:13] FAWN: Right. Is, and as I'm saying this, I can hear so many of my friends go, oh my god, you sound terrible. You know? Right. Like, now if I say, if, if, if something is racist, I feel like I'm being, um, I'm in the wrong. It's weird. Anyway, um, I forgot what I was saying.
[00:17:34] MATT: I don't know, you took me off the track.
[00:17:36] MATT: But we definitely need to figure out how to bring this back to a good place.
[00:17:39] FAWN: I wanted to say is sometimes, It's necessary to Not have a loud quit, but express to someone they're wrong, they're wrong behavior and point it out.
[00:17:55] FAWN: Like we were at a college library a couple of weeks ago [00:18:00] and The librarian there was talking to our kids and I was standing there and you were standing there. And the librarian asked one of our kids, Oh, what do you want to study? And our kids said what they want to study. And then they looked at our youngest and said, What are you interested in?
[00:18:18] FAWN: Right? and they, they said one of the things that they were interested in. And, and then, I pointed out, yeah, and you're also interested in this, right? And the librarian totally jumped on me verbally, saying, I don't mean to butt in here and ruin your family dynamic, whatever is happening here. And then started talking to my kid, our kid, and saying, Don't you let your parents Dictate what you should do and I'm thinking whoa lady.
[00:18:53] FAWN: You don't know me That's not what is happening here, AT ALL, right? Oh,
[00:18:59] right. [00:19:00]
[00:19:00] FAWN: I Could see and this has happened to us before but I could see how her own trauma Was dictating whatever she was seeing right
[00:19:10] MATT: and that that's a big problem with people and that's I think
[00:19:12] FAWN: it's happening so much right now everybody's
[00:19:15] MATT: feeling like it's okay for me to talk to you like this because I get talked to by random non authoritative sources all the time via, you know, cause I, I watch their videos and they just, you know, as I'm doom scrolling or as I'm just accepting whatever YouTube force feeds me.
[00:19:32] FAWN: I just feel like the previous generation is dumping all their trauma on the, the newer generations coming up. These newer generations don't have the same problems that they did. But because of whatever trauma they went through.
[00:19:49] They're
[00:19:49] FAWN: trying to make it not happen again for anyone else, not knowing that they're creating a whole other trauma for, for a couple [00:20:00] generations.
[00:20:00] MATT: I think the thing is, is though, um, I think it's always been the case. It's just now everybody feels like they have a pulpit from which to shout from and if you don't have that, if, because you don't have a social media presence, you feel entitled to do that in real life IRL.
[00:20:20] FAWN: So What does someone like me do who doesn't shout it out?
[00:20:26] FAWN: Do you know what I'm saying? Right. So, yesterday, we went back and I was looking for this librarian.
[00:20:32] MATT: Dun dun
[00:20:33] FAWN: dun! And by the grace of God, probably.
[00:20:36] MATT: It was too cold.
[00:20:37] FAWN: No, it wasn't that it was too cold. I felt, once again, we've talked about this, but I felt like I had too many things to do and we were running out of time.
[00:20:45] FAWN: So I'm like, no, now I'm running late. I don't have time. But I was going to go to her in a very calm way, explain how whatever she perceived, she assumed was reality and it was [00:21:00] not the case. And she needs to watch herself. And I needed her to understand that, but. You know, also, you taught me this, that when you try to tell someone how they've wronged you, they will never hear it.
[00:21:17] MATT: Well, they won't hear it in the moment for sure. Yeah. They may hear it later, but they won't hear it in the moment.
[00:21:23] FAWN: That's, yes. Yes, I understand that now and you were so right because I'm like, I was like, well, I'm going to do it anyway and I was, I'm thinking, and
[00:21:31] MATT: there's nothing wrong with doing it by the way, there's absolutely nothing wrong, but you
[00:21:34] FAWN: said don't expect satisfaction, you will
[00:21:37] MATT: never get satisfaction,
[00:21:38] FAWN: never.
[00:21:39] MATT: However, the person may change their behavior, but you'll never see it. Joy.
[00:21:45] FAWN: So, anyway, all this is wrapped up in our human relationships throughout the world. Indeed. Throughout our lives. It is, the art of friendship is very complex. It is. We could be talking about money. [00:22:00] We can talk about food. It's all related to how we treat each other and how we see each other and how we communicate with one another.
[00:22:09] FAWN: Welcome to the art of friendship. Right?
[00:22:12] MATT: Have a nice day.
[00:22:12] FAWN: Have a nice day.
[00:22:17] FAWN: With that, that's all I have to say today. Sounds good. Yeah? Yes. Well, have a beautiful every day, you guys. Let me know what you think. Let Matt know what you think. And if you need us, you know we're here for you.
[00:22:30] MATT: All right. Be well. Have a
[00:22:31] FAWN: beautiful every day.
