Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] FAWN: Welcome back everybody. Welcome to our friendly world. Hello.
[00:00:03] MATT: Hello.
[00:00:05] FAWN: Doesn't it seem like, the world has become a small town for sure. But with billions of people how many billion how many people are on the planet, you know? I want to say
[00:00:15] MATT: the u. s. Has like 350 million,
[00:00:17] FAWN: but is the world in the billions or the trillions?
[00:00:20] MATT: It's in the billions
[00:00:21] FAWN: Okay, so
[00:00:23] MATT: but that kind of doesn't matter because we can kind of only hold like a hundred hundred fifty people in our head
[00:00:28] FAWN: that's exactly what I was gonna say is I think part of what is going on is We are so connected to the billions That it's unnatural. No, it is. It's unnatural for our human bodied selves
[00:00:52] FAWN: to, to grasp, to, to, it's, it, we don't have the capacity for that much empathy, for that [00:01:00] much input, for that much information, I want to say. Okay. I mean, I know we're, I do consider ourselves like supernatural in a way that, what, what that means, what I mean by that is that we're infinite beings. Infinite love.
[00:01:18] FAWN: We have the capacity for infinite love. However, I've been thinking about this a lot lately, is the amount of information that we're exposed to. Not just lately. This is something I've been thinking about forever and we've had I think a lot of, uh, doctors, scientists, other people who study this kind of thing say that we only have the capacity for a certain amount of people.
[00:01:42] FAWN: That's why small tribes or small towns are more compassionate towards one another. Like, People in big cities, if someone falls on the ground, or something happens to them, people tend to walk away and not help, thinking someone else will do it. And everyone is [00:02:00] thinking someone else will do it, or, I don't want to do it, or, I don't, it's too much.
[00:02:05] FAWN: Whatever it may be. I remember hearing this story when I was a kid about You know, have you heard the story about a woman, I think it was in New York, who got stabbed, like over 50 something times, like, some, it was horrible. And no one called the police. All these people just let it happen. No one called the police. And I told myself, whoa, I'm, and I, and I kind of understood that mentality because I grew up in a city.
[00:02:34] FAWN: I was raised in a big city, so I understood that mentality, but I told myself when I heard that, that I will not let that happen. And one day in San Francisco, it was nighttime, I lived in an area, it was San Francisco, I mean, come on, it was, it was not the safest. And so, I heard something terrible [00:03:00] outside, and I looked out the window.
[00:03:02] FAWN: And to this day, when I think of that sound, when I replay it in my head, I Terrible things happen. Like, I, I, I'm It's just awful that humanity treats its, treats others What am I trying to say? It's, it's terrible that people do that to each other. Right. So what I did was I called the police. Mm hmm. And because I was naive, because I was still a kid myself Barely 18.
[00:03:31] FAWN: I called the police thinking they would help, especially because I said, Please help. There are these two men. They asked me to describe the men involved. So I did the best I could. It was two white men beating up with a bat. The skull of a black man. And I waited for the police to come. And I waited, and I waited, and I think to myself, I'm always hearing [00:04:00] sirens.
[00:04:00] FAWN: Where are the police? And as I got older, I always thought about it. I'm like, I shouldn't have said he was a black man being hurt. Who knows? You know, like, is that the reason they took their sweet time to get there? Right. And by the time they got there, there was nobody around. So Anyway, I, I'm kind of digressing here, but I promised that I wouldn't allow for my empathy to be misused.
[00:04:30] FAWN: And I feel like that's what's happening on, on, I feel like it's happening on two levels. Just watching our kids, who are highly empathetic. As are all humans, by the way, I think. Don't
[00:04:42] FAWN (2): you
[00:04:42] FAWN: think so?
[00:04:43] MATT: Well, I think it gets, I think it gets kind of burned out of you depending on, you know, where you live, how you live.
[00:04:50] FAWN: Maybe. Maybe. What I was going to say about our kids, and one kid in particular, their empathy is so high [00:05:00] that they're so susceptible to whatever's going on on social media. And this man that we were listening to was a brainwashing expert who was talking about
[00:05:11] MATT: Scary person to listen to, by the way.
[00:05:13] FAWN: Why?
[00:05:13] MATT: Just, you're listening to somebody who's had a Brainwash and he's trying to convince you of things. Well, it's a little dangerous.
[00:05:20] FAWN: I know, but what he, but don't you think what he said was valid? What he said was, when you're looking at social media, there are things that will be shown to you that will capture your empathy.
[00:05:34] FAWN: So it'll get you to feel an emotion, a strong emotion, usually one that is empathetic, like you will start to cry or, you know, really feel this other person. And then the next video will be the opposite. Is that what he said? Like, basically you see, like, how many videos did he say? Eight? Back to back. It takes you up, down, up, down, up, down.
[00:05:59] FAWN: And by [00:06:00] the eighth one, there's a commercial that will get you to buy something.
[00:06:04] MATT: Oh dear. And
[00:06:04] FAWN: because you go through that roller coaster of up and down, it leaves you susceptible. To any input. Any input. And that's how they get you, and I feel like that's how they're getting these kids now. To Believe whatever they believe or like dislike themselves for whatever reason and all the trouble, all the anxiety, all the depression.
[00:06:30] FAWN: I think this is one major thing that is contributing to that. You don't, you, are you disagreeing? Yes and
[00:06:37] MATT: no, but
[00:06:40] FAWN: And by the way, it brings about loneliness, which is where we're headed.
[00:06:44] MATT: But I think the biggest problem with social media is not the emotional rollercoaster, but it's the echo chamber it puts you in.
[00:06:51] MATT: The fact that it doesn't matter, as this guy even said, it doesn't matter what you believe. Flat earth, round earth, [00:07:00] uh, you know, Trump is the devil, Trump is the angel of God. Doesn't matter what you believe, which side of the coin, they're going to amplify it.
[00:07:08] FAWN: He was saying that the amount of, the amount of up feeling, up feeling down, feeling up, feeling down. He was saying that that, wave, up and down wave, creates in your brain susceptibility. Like you become hypnotized in a way.
[00:07:28] MATT: Right, and they're using it for the most basic purposes.
[00:07:31] MATT: They're using it to sell a good product. Yeah, but
[00:07:33] FAWN: He was saying What's led to this loneliness epidemic that the apps and advertising goals have two things to accomplish. Which they do, to compare yourself to other people and to make you think that you are not enough, which then gets us into a mode of us versus them. And then he was talking about a confirmation bias where you.
[00:07:58] FAWN: Because [00:08:00] of, I guess, do you call it analytics? What do you call it when you look at a video and then more videos like that show up for you? The
[00:08:07] FAWN (2): algorithm, is what they call it.
[00:08:09] FAWN: So When you look at something, and it could be a thought that's brought to you, but because you looked at that thought, and that thought could be maybe 1 percent of the population actually believes this thought, but then you're fed all these, other thoughts that totally resemble this one crazy thought, and I shouldn't say crazy, but one obscure thought, which then The, the way I think he was describing it as, confirmation bias is that because all of a sudden you're shown all these other Ways of this thought, like other people think exactly this way, then you think the whole world is thinking this way.
[00:08:50] FAWN: So, therefore, this is the whole world, and I think that's the dangerous, part of where the kids are at these days. Yes. Because they think this is the absolute [00:09:00] fact. This is the absolute reality and nothing else.
[00:09:03] MATT: Right. Yes. And, and there you go, and that's what I was saying. It's the echo chamber effect.
[00:09:07] MATT: I'm less concerned with selling toasters and more concerned with the echo chamber.
[00:09:12] FAWN: Right. And that's what he was saying as well, not just about, selling toasters, which by the way, he said, because he's like the leading experts in brainwashing techniques. And he said he falls for it, right? So if he's falling for it, be very scared when he was saying, be very scared when there's a product that doesn't have
[00:09:36] MATT: That doesn't present an obvious solution.
[00:09:38] FAWN: Right. And he brought up, like, what did he bring up?
[00:09:41] MATT: Well, he talked about DoorDash and Amazon. They solve
[00:09:46] FAWN: a problem.
[00:09:46] MATT: You want to buy something? Go to Amazon. You want to, or Walmart, or wherever. Right. You
[00:09:51] FAWN: don't have time to leave your house. You're doing all this work. The problem is solved by DoorDash coming to you.
[00:09:57] FAWN: Problem solved. Bringing me food, [00:10:00] yes. But he mentioned all these other things. That don't solve the problem. And what they're doing is, people are hungry to get it. Well,
[00:10:08] MATT: they're not saying what problem that they solve.
[00:10:11] FAWN: They're not. But what they're doing is causing the loneliness epidemic. Well, what
[00:10:14] MATT: he's saying, what he was saying though, he was talking about, Because, honestly, he doesn't quite understand, but he was talking about VR.
[00:10:22] MATT: He was talking about Apple's Vision, he was talking about Meta's, um, VR glasses, virtual reality glasses, and he was saying that what they were curing Possibly because they're not saying what they're doing They're not saying what the problem is that they're attempting to solve but one of the things he believes are attempting to solve is loneliness It may just be that they're just solving boredom, but it I think it depends on the person
[00:10:47] FAWN: What they're doing is causing loneliness Because
[00:10:52] MATT: well, they're pretending to solve it.
[00:10:54] MATT: So you'll buy it
[00:10:55] FAWN: Right, but it's actually causing loneliness.
[00:10:57] MATT: Well, it's gonna reinforce the echo chamber. It's [00:11:00] gonna reinforce the Not being around people
[00:11:04] FAWN: so which brings us back to something or the thing that we have been talking about all along for years and Also taking it back to at the podcast. We started talking about the tribe, right?
[00:11:19] FAWN: We're only built to Really look after a hundred?
[00:11:22] MATT: 150, maybe. 150 people
[00:11:24] FAWN: max. So that's why small towns, if someone stumbles, everyone's gonna pull over and figure out what happened. Are you okay?
[00:11:32] MATT: Well, I think there's more to it than just that. Honestly, I think that A, you're gonna, again, echo chamber, but you're gonna have positive echo chamber in that case, and negative in a big city.
[00:11:45] MATT: But, like, odds are somebody knows this person, knows of this person, this person is similar to somebody I know, and so I'm gonna go out of my way to, you know, try and find out what's going on.
[00:11:57] FAWN: I, I kinda wanna disagree with you, Matt. When I [00:12:00] was driving cross country, and I was a kid, young, right? I was driving by myself, and I was starting to feel like, um, I don't know where I am, I'm definitely away from the big city, or all these small towns that I'm driving past on the freeway, and I was scared to take an exit.
[00:12:23] Right.
[00:12:23] FAWN: Because I didn't know, I didn't know these small towns and I thought I would be mistreated. I was scared. So I didn't take an exit. So I pulled away on the shoulder where like, cars pull over if they have car trouble. You know, on the far right. I pulled over and I was just trying to collect myself and immediately this car slowed down on the freeway and pulled up right behind me.
[00:12:50] FAWN: And I was so scared, Matt, I was like, Oh no. And this old lady pops out and she's coming towards my [00:13:00] car. I'm like, what's going on? She's like, honey, are you all right? What can I do? Do you need help? Can I help you? I was blown away. Coming from a big city. Right. She didn't know me.
[00:13:14] MATT: But did she recognize you?
[00:13:15] MATT: No. Uh, uh, uh. So she has never been stuck on the side of the road or had a child, grandchild, aunt, uncle, friend.
[00:13:24] FAWN: I thought what you were saying was they, you specifically know these people. Right. And in some cases you do and in
[00:13:31] MATT: other cases it's just you're, you know, it's a, that's the, town does. So they have more empathy.
[00:13:37] MATT: They have
[00:13:37] FAWN: capacity for all the empathy. Right? However Because you're
[00:13:41] MATT: not constantly being bombarded by new people.
[00:13:43] FAWN: Right. So if that was in the tri state area or something, right? Okay. Or in L. A.
[00:13:48] MATT: L. A.?
[00:13:50] FAWN: No one would do that. You're on your own.
[00:13:53] MATT: Right. More or less.
[00:13:54] FAWN: Call AAA.
[00:13:55] MATT: Yep.
[00:13:57] FAWN: That's what I was saying.
[00:13:58] MATT: Yes. And I, I think [00:14:00] by and large you are right, but it's just, there's a different, different levels of recognition and different pace and also it's not socially acceptable to ignore somebody like that when you're in a smaller community.
[00:14:19] MATT: I think. So again, you're looking at the social rules.
[00:14:24] FAWN: You're more, uh, accountable for your actions. You are, absolutely. Yeah, so if you ignore someone that's hurting,
[00:14:30] MATT: wow. Well yeah, case in point. Um, I'm not going to say the names, but, um, there was somebody who was beloved, who passed away. People donated for a bench to be done in his honor. And one guy said he was going to, and didn't. Boy, he's mud forever in this town.
[00:14:53] FAWN: Because everybody knows who does what.
[00:14:55] MATT: Because everybody knows this guy.
[00:14:56] MATT: Everybody knows him by reputation. Everybody knows what he said, [00:15:00] and his name is now mud.
[00:15:02] FAWN: Right.
[00:15:03] MATT: And that's, that's what it is. As opposed to in a big city, you don't know me, I don't know you.
[00:15:08] FAWN: No one's gonna really check, maybe? . Yeah. Who's gonna keep tabs on things? Right? Right. Nobody, nobody's paying attention.
[00:15:17] FAWN: You don't even know your neighbors.
[00:15:19] Right.
[00:15:20] FAWN: You never see them even. Right. And you share one wall, we never see them.
[00:15:24] MATT: Or you don't even share a, you know, you share a fence.
[00:15:28] FAWN: So part, so we all agree, then it's because there's too much input. There's too many things, there's too much news, there's too many, there's just too many things.
[00:15:38] FAWN: And it also works in. What we feed our bodies, right? What causes disease in the body when the body can't recognize all these Foreign things coming into it. I'm talking about chemicals and things like that And what this guy was saying this brainwashing guy was it's whatever your ancestors couldn't [00:16:00] recognize Then it's, it's trouble for your body, right?
[00:16:03] FAWN: And, and
[00:16:03] MATT: I've talked about this before, too, yeah. Remind. There was a, uh, a girl who was, um, First Nation, whose people survived partially on whale blubber, and she went off to school in, like, the Midwest, and she got sick. And it was because there was no whale blubber in her diet. Are you kidding me? But that was, that was the problem.
[00:16:26] MATT: And she came back home. She had whale, got, got whale right away. Right. It's, it's a weird world. But your body's changed to be able to digest these things. Uh, You know, um, the Norse people, my people, they all drink milk. Well, milk's not a natural thing, but cow's milk is what I'm talking about.
[00:16:49] MATT: It's not a natural thing, but rates for allergies to cow's milk are much lower in Scandinavian people because that's all they had oftentimes to eat and drink.
[00:16:59] FAWN: So are you [00:17:00] okay being vegan for all these years?
[00:17:01] MATT: Yeah, I'm fine.
[00:17:02] FAWN: Are you sure?
[00:17:03] MATT: Yes.
[00:17:04] FAWN: Okay, I worry.
[00:17:06] MATT: I mean, you know, every once in a while I want to have a dragon steak or something, but what are you going to do?
[00:17:11] MATT: Are
[00:17:12] FAWN: you serious?
[00:17:13] MATT: Dragon, yes, I'm very serious. Oh, you
[00:17:15] FAWN: guys, I went to the best restaurant a few weeks ago, and I had vegan steak. It was amazing.
[00:17:24] MATT: Anyways.
[00:17:25] FAWN: Okay, sorry, digress.
[00:17:26] MATT: Yes.
[00:17:27] FAWN: So mental and physical, mental and physical input , is all this is contributing even further to this loneliness epidemic. And it's so funny now that everyone is using that, that term, well, loneliness epidemic.
[00:17:42] FAWN: And when we started talking about it years ago, it's like, how dare you, you know? So what do we do? What do we do? What we do is hunker down. No, but like, you know, like I say, I'm sorry, go
[00:17:59] MATT: ahead. [00:18:00] Start realizing that the world really is a small town and take care of your little piece of it.
[00:18:05] FAWN: Yeah, I mean, and I was going to say, remember a few weeks ago, I was like, I need to be in the basement.
[00:18:12] FAWN: I don't want to talk to nobody. Leave me alone. I needed to collect myself, right? Too much input. I was, uh, I was short circuiting. And I kind of feel that way again today. Like I need to be quiet. I need to be still. Like, you know, everyone's always, telling you, you better work out. You better move. It's like, no, I need to be still.
[00:18:37] FAWN: Thank you. Under the covers with a pillow. Thank you very much. Right? I do. Why are you looking at me like that?
[00:18:44] MATT: I've just been having a challenging weekend myself because I told myself I would take this weekend and Relax, and I have to constantly tell myself. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay that you're not doing 20, 000 things.
[00:18:58] FAWN: Yeah We've talked [00:19:00] about this a lot. It's
[00:19:01] MATT: a weird world. I'll be honest.
[00:19:02] FAWN: Yeah, welcome to I mean parent guilt also like you You always feel like you're not doing enough, no matter what you're doing, no matter how many thousands of things you're taking care of, it's still, you feel like it's never enough.
[00:19:18] FAWN: Do you feel that way?
[00:19:19] MATT: Often times.
[00:19:21] FAWN: It's, it's terrible. And I'm laughing because I don't know what to do. And we've talked about this so many times, but, but here we are, we're reminding each other that slowing down is incredibly important. It's like driving a car at mad speed. You know, you can get into an accident.
[00:19:44] FAWN: Just calm down. Actually, you shouldn't tell someone to calm down like that, but you know, just don't worry about slowing down. Slowing down is okay. It's needed. You need to. Who knows? There could be some crazy ice you're not even [00:20:00] aware of. Slow down. True. Um. Yeah, being in the present and just, it's okay, it's okay not to strive for this greatness.
[00:20:11] FAWN: I think to achieve the greatness, you have to move slowly. So you can notice the trifles that Matt always talks about, paying attention to the trifles. The great martial artists always told you, pay attention to trifles. It's the small things, it's the micro gestures a person is using. That will let you know everything that is going on.
[00:20:36] FAWN: Paying attention to that.
[00:20:38] MATT: Definitely true.
[00:20:41] FAWN: Being the witness.
[00:20:42] MATT: And did you know you could set limits on your social apps? In, on your computer? You can say, Hey, stop after such and such a time.
[00:20:49] FAWN: Can we do that with our kids stuff? Without them knowing?
[00:20:53] FAWN (2): Not without them knowing, but we can do it. Can
[00:20:55] FAWN: we do it?
[00:20:56] MATT: We can talk about it. Absolutely. I think we should do it. Okay then. [00:21:00] Set, set some limits. Enforce some limits.
[00:21:03] FAWN: Um, and that's it. Is that it?
[00:21:08] MATT: I think so.
[00:21:09] FAWN: Can I just repeat something a friend told me? That feelings don't make things fact,
[00:21:16] MATT: right?
[00:21:17] FAWN: So these kids right now are feeling these things They're feeling horrible Horrible ways it doesn't make it fact and be careful because people are using Compassion against you they're using your empathy against you. Think about how your empathy is being used as a weapon.
[00:21:41] FAWN: You're an empathetic person. Listening to this, who everyone who listens to our show is highly empathetic. Be aware of how your empathy is being used to have you believe whatever their propaganda wants you to believe. That's what I've been struggling with, so I thought I'd pass that [00:22:00] along.
[00:22:01] MATT: Sounds good. And remember, be a good host. We're all living in a small town. Pay attention and be kind.
[00:22:11] FAWN: Love you. Have a beautiful every day.
[00:22:14] MATT: Be well.
