"Friendship and the Wisdom of Muhammad Ali: Navigating Life's Pebbles"

Transcript sFawn: [00:00:00] Welcome back everybody. We have another Respect to pay to Muhammad Ali Muhammad Ali in america do you want to say the quote honey? Matt: Okay Fawn: by muhammad ali ali Muhammad, Muhammad Ali. Matt: Ha, ha, ha. Mmm. It isn't the mountains ahead to climb that wear you out. It's the pebble in your shoe. Fawn: So true. Immediately. I wonder why he was saying that, do you have any idea? Matt: Well this is a man who went after a heck of a lot of stuff and he didn't kinda care about ramifications as he was going for it. Fawn: You don't think he cared? I'm sure he cared. But he, regardless, it's like being brave. He Matt: wasn't worried about the consequences of his actions. He was doing them because they felt right. So he's constantly climbing. It's just, you know, is it a [00:01:00] case of the pebble in your shoe? That's something that blindsides you. Is it, is the pebble in your shoe as you're climbing this mountain? Is that just an irritant that you try to ignore? Speaker: Well, it's something that's in there. You don't know is there until you're already walking the path. And, by the time you realize it, maybe you can't stop or it's too, maybe you're like, well, oh, I have to take off my shoe again and stop and take it out and sometimes you're just like, let me just keep walking. Maybe I can ignore it. Maybe it'll move over. I mean, I don't know what he, how he felt. I wish he was here to talk to us, but yeah, I mean, I'm thinking about friendship and I think all the little pebbles in your shoe that wear on you where if you could just stop and take them out It would help you along the journey or and make things much more [00:02:00] comfortable, Matt: right? If you felt Fawn: it wasn't the right word though, it would make it much more pleasant Matt: It's taking the time out and doing stuff doing something about Aspects of others your friends. Maybe that you're like wait, that doesn't feel quite right Are you aware that that's how you come across? Is that what you're saying? Fawn: Taking care of the little things along the way. Communicating the little things. And making sure that you're wiping it away. Is that the wrong Oh, I shouldn't say you're wiping it away. You know, just taking care of the little things that bug you. That are hurting you. That hurt you. Period. Right? Noticing them and taking the time. To take it out, taking the time to heal it, taking the time to take care of the situation so you can have a better journey. Because yes, that tiny little pebble can cause major havoc along the way. It can cut [00:03:00] you, it will make you bleed, it could cause damage that will last forever. Hello plantar fasciitis. Maybe, you know? Oh dear. But I'm remembering something you said last week you said friendship is a necessity, and unfortunately some people treat it like a luxury. Interesting statement. Matt: Yes. Speaker: It blew me away. Did you make that up yourself? Of course I made that up myself. For real? Matt: But I read an awful lot, so God knows, I probably plagiarized someone. Speaker: You think? Matt: Oh ho ho. Do you remember how inventive when we first started dating you thought I was? Guys, when we first Speaker: got together, Matt would say the most clever stuff. Oh Matt: my goodness, they were clever. I Speaker: was like, wow. And then years later I find that we're watching movies. After we were married. Matt: Agreed. Speaker: We're watching movies and stuff. I'm like, wait a minute. That's your line. Wait a minute. You, you said that. Wait a minute. They stole from [00:04:00] me. But let's get back to that. Regardless of who said it, that, do you think most people treat it like a luxury and that it's not a necessity? That, you know, here we are talking about a pebble and taking it out. Yeah. It's not the same as just disregarding a friendship or disregarding a human being. And I'm not saying that you should stay friends with someone forever, however, but, I don't know. What do you think, Matt? Where are we headed here? Because I'm all over the place, I'm still fresh from a wound. Matt: You are all over the place, for sure. I think, unfortunately, I remember reading something about pebbles and them being trivial things, but it's, it's not really. A pebble in your shoe if you're trying to climb a mountain is a big deal. And it's a big deal that as soon as you figure out that this is what's happening, you should take care of. And so again, I think [00:05:00] it's like housekeeping inside of a friendship. As soon as you see something happening, You. You call it out. You discuss it. You bring it up. You converse about it. And, maybe this is how this person truly feels. I have friends on both sides of the aisle. And they are, with certain political beliefs that are run completely counter to my own. And it's a question then of understanding that they exist and figuring out what you want to do about it and for the most part I have a gentleman's agreement I think with most people I know to not get into it too much. Speaker: I wonder why me, well I'll tell you why I do it, I wonder, I was going to say I wonder why people do this and I wonder why I do it, I know why I do it, I don't call out the pebble immediately. I ignore it, thinking it'll move over in my shoe and I can just live with it. And I'm [00:06:00] equating it to friendship, really. What I'm talking about is when friends do stuff, quote unquote friends do stuff, I tend to let things go. And then they accumulate. Why is it that I can't say something immediately as it happens? Because I figure, oh, it's just so minor, and maybe it's just me, and I have to get over it. Like, it's my issue. And there you have it. And, but the thing is that, really deep down, I'm afraid of the conflict. Because if I do bring it up, that usually, yes, it seems like a minor, very minor issue. However, It's really not. It's never really minor. It's like a tiny little, look, or it's a tiny little micro gesture, or it's a tiny little statement that's made, or something. A tiny little thing that's done that you can say, well, you know, if I bring it up, it just [00:07:00] seems like I'm being too picky, or I'm being overly dramatic. Bringing it up and saying, Hey, you know, what does this mean? Or what, why was this said, what does this mean basically? Right. I'm afraid of the conflict that comes up and the fight that will ensue, or someone giving me their wrath, you know? And I don't want that. And here's the kicker though, is it's better to have it out in the beginning, so people know where you stand, or you know where they stand, as opposed to months, months in, or years in, and things build up, and then finally, you don't even say something about it, but like, there have been too many transgressions. And no one says anything, and there's a big blow up. And then the other person who's been not good to you, who's been cutting you, and who has had so many pebbles being built up in your shoe, [00:08:00] like they're the pebbles, like their actions are the pebbles, there's so much that, even if you still don't say anything, they end up being harsh with you, and then you're all, I'll just speak for myself, and then I'm all upset, because I'm like Are you kidding me? I've had to put up with your stuff all this time. I've let it go and here you are, you're mad at me? And it hurts so much more. It feels disgusting. It is the most, I won't say the most horrible feeling, but it's, it's definitely very slimy and awful, that feeling. So yes, I, you know, I just, from now on, I just want to call out every little pebble. And just take care of it. And walk, a nice walk, you know? Anyway, that's me. Matt: Yeah, absolutely. I feel the same way. I typically tend to, initially little idiosyncrasies, [00:09:00] little, whatever you want to call it, conflicts, I'll laugh off, I'll make a joke out of, initially. But once I see a pattern starting to emerge, yeah, then we have to talk about it. And we have to talk about it in such a way that we know whether or not we're gonna continue. even talking about this subject or not, you know, I ran, I ran into, um, yeah, I was speaking with a friend of mine and he brought up really challenging stereotypes and I was like, wow, that's so 1970s of you. My goodness. Hmm. That doesn't smell very good to me. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. To let, to let them know that, you know, I felt that the way they were talking was kind of outdated and kind of ridiculous, but I tried to make light of it. Speaker: But I find it dangerous, especially nowadays, to even say something like that, as opposed to asking a question or making them repeat [00:10:00] what they said. Could you repeat that? What does that mean? You know, I, I, that's the, that's the path I'm gonna take is, what does this mean? Could you repeat that? And maybe get quiet. And, and then back to what you were saying, Matt, about, you'll just laugh it off initially until you see the pattern. Okay. Matt: Yes. Speaker: You're very good at seeing patterns. Yes. I, I don't know how many of you listening are more like me, where I may feel a pattern, but I don't see the pattern until it's way too late, until, you know what I'm saying? Yes. So now I'm like, well, I have to do it immediately, otherwise it's never going to happen. And then I'm going to end up in the same situation that I was in last week of Being completely appalled by someone's behavior that I thought was a friend, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, so any advice for someone like me who can't necessarily see the patterns and because I've been hit with so much [00:11:00] in my life like so much racism and all of that I'm I'm raw And at the same time, I, I'm tired. I'm like, to even think about, oh my god, now I have to call out every little pebble. And stop along the way for every pebble. I feel like I'm always going to be taking off my shoes. I was Matt: going to be taking off my shoe. Are Speaker: you making fun of me? Matt: I'm sorry, babe. Speaker: What do you mean by that? See, Matt: there you go. You called me on it. Well done. See, I'm practicing. Well done. Speaker: No, seriously, what was that? Were you making fun of me? Obviously. What's that about? Matt's tapping, which means he gives up. It still hurts though. Matt: I replay all the conversations that I, I, I, I'm sorry. Speaker: I don't have time for that. I know you go through the end of the day and you recall everything. Matt: At night, I'll kind of just go through and figure [00:12:00] out, summarize my day and kind of feel good and then the next morning I'm working, I'm focusing on what I'm going to do that day. To just put everything in perspective. And like Mondays, I think through the week, it's quite a, it's quite obnoxious and annoying I'm sure to others, but I, it works well for me. Speaker: I think I have to reinstate this thing that I learned a long time ago from, I think it was Caroline Myss. So you, you have certain energy dollars every day you wake up. Let's say it's a hundred dollars. Mm-Hmm. , they're energy dollars and someone cuts you off on the road. And then you get really upset. There's a dollar out from your budget. And then, throughout the day, you keep thinking of it, you get madder and madder. Or you just get mad, period. And every time you think of that person, or every time you think of that situation, you are depleting yourself of energy. So, towards the end of the day, you're on a deficit because you've exceeded a hundred [00:13:00] dollars. Right. Each time you think about this person you've thought about it so much and most of your energy has gone to that So now you're depleted and now you're working through a deficit which means you're not living Well, because you're you're not whole anymore. It things are it's taking it out of you. It's breaking you it's chipping away at you. So what was I saying? Matt: You're gonna reinstitute this energy dollars Speaker: So thank you. I was So, when she was saying this, I was in a crowd at Barnes Noble one day, one night, and um, she was doing a book signing and she was saying this. And then all of a sudden I, and I was, I had just, you know, I was engaged to this stupid guy Matt: and don't gesture towards me and say that, oh my Speaker: God, I did not gesture to you. You were Matt: like, I was engaged to this stupid guy. No, Speaker: I was not pointing at you. My hands just moved that way. . No, of course not. No. [00:14:00] But I, you know, it was so ridiculous. The guy was beyond ridiculous and thank goodness I was plucked away from that situation. Um, but, and the room was so packed. And as she was saying this, I was thinking about that situation. Like, it merits none of my energy. Zero. So, at the end of the day, you have to kind of be like a judge. Like, how much you're in a board meeting or something, and you're the judge. Things are coming at you. This situation, this person, you know, all these events. Mm-Hmm. , how much energy do you wanna invest here? Right? Okay. Next, how much do you wanna invest here? And then you go, I would like to invest 50%. I would like to invest 10, or zero clunk, with the gavel down zero for that person. And I was thinking zero for the person that I used to be engaged to, right? Mm-Hmm. and. As soon as I had that thought, that, that realization, it was so freeing. It was like, it was like a turning [00:15:00] point in my life. And right at that moment, one of his idiot people was in that crowd. And he looked at me, he was trying to get my attention. And I was like, here we go again. And I said to myself, zero. Like a little computer screen, like, showed up, like, in between me and this, like, crowd. Nice. With his face, and it went, di di di di, zero. And I left. I left the whole, book signing. She had, she was just getting started. But that bit of gold that she, said. Mm hmm. Was what I needed to hear. I'm like, thank you very much, I'm good, and I left. And I, I have Pretty much carried that with me the whole time, but I forgot to use it. It's been a few years since I thought about it. So that's what I'm going to reinstate, is that. Back to the judge. Like, how much do you want to invest? Matt: Gotcha. Speaker: And once you, once you make that commandment, like, this situation , is now being [00:16:00] funded zero from now on. Not being funded anymore. , it makes a huge shift in you. You can feel it, like, okay, it's decided. It's um, I'm gonna say it again. It creates a shift. It's unmistakable. It's quite liberating. Okay, that's what I had to say. Matt: Oh my goodness. What am I supposed to do? How am I supposed to follow that? Well, Speaker: I want to go back to necessity versus luxury. Yes. Right? Matt: Mm hmm. Speaker: Can you elaborate on that? Because I'm like, Matt, this is what you said. You're like, I said that? Wow. Cool. When I was, Putting the podcast together. Well, there's all that Matt: scary talk about what it means to not have friends, and a support system, and, and that kind of thing, and how it's bad for your health, and that just starts showing exactly what it means to, you know, man is a social animal. [00:17:00] Period. End of story. You know, that's how we survived way back when. That's how we're wired now. Speaker: That's how we're surviving now. I mean, you know, Matt, do you know how to grow a broccoli? Matt: Yes, Speaker: you do. Do you know how to make glass? Yes We need each other everyone has an expertise Matt: Exactly. We're completely interdependent and we're interdependent for more than just stuff. We're interdependent for companionship, we're interdependent, we're wired for Talking to others, we're wired for sharing experiences. We're wired for all of that stuff. Speaker: And I was going to say, yes, but some people, you definitely need to get out of your circle. Matt: That is most definitely. So Speaker: there's the fine line of like, Oh my gosh, what do we do?[00:18:00] There are certain people you should not have in your life. Right. So when, you know, to definitely get rid of the pebble. If it's a pebble. When do you, when do you know to cut it off? Matt: You know when you know, sadly. Every single situation is going to be different. And you have to come to it, I think, from a place of abundance and not scarcity as well. Speaker: True. You can't say, well, I need to make friends, so I'm just going to put up with this. Right. No. Absolutely not. There was something else I wanted to say. Matt: Get what you settle for. Speaker: I also wanted to say yes, it's easy to say Okay, this person should not be in my circle however Like to really think about what's really going on For someone to get to a level of being disrespectful to another person Like check [00:19:00] yourself. What is it that you're going through? Like we were a few episodes back We were talking about projection. Right. A lot of the time it's a lot of you that you're projecting onto other people and that can create such conflict that you're not going to have a friendship that way. Yes. As much as the other person would like to, they can only handle so much and vice versa. Matt: Right. And that goes for all kinds of relationships. And I think Speaker: that's where the luxury versus necessity comes in. That you feel like, oh, there's so many people. You treat it like a luxury, like a throwaway item even. Do you know what I'm saying? Matt: Right. And then, but then also, I think people tend to hear it's a necessity and they start to think of it as a scarcity though as well. Yeah. Yeah. I hear you. So it's, it's, it's a hard thing. And it's, it's about mindset. Honestly. It's completely. Speaker: What mindset in particular are you speaking of? Matt: I'm talking [00:20:00] about good things are going to happen to me. I'm. You know, I'm worthy of friendship. I'm surrounded by abundance. I, you know, all these kinds of visualizations, to me at least, are key. Speaker: Yes, it's about being healthy and whole, so you have the capacity to give. Matt: And it's also about doing the things you enjoy, and it's about understanding when it's time to rest and recharge. Yeah, it's about having places that you feel happy. I mean interesting case in point. I don't have Any friends who enjoy the music I enjoy. Music's very important to me. How does that even make sense? But that's just it. I mean, I, music is an intensely personal experience. It's a realm of abundance. It's a realm of freedom. [00:21:00] And if somebody wants to make fun of me for my music, that's totally fine. You know, if one of my friends wants to make fun of me for my music, that's fine too. Because we, we, there's always the inherent respect in our interactions. And so, it's, it's not about sharing all that I am inside of any relationship. Speaker: It's not about Matt: Cause you hate my music. Speaker: No, so, so what is it about? Matt: It's my friendships. Speaker: I just, you know, of course, of course that we shouldn't come into anything from a state of lack. Nothing. Putting that aside. As like, that, that's a no. Mm hmm. How can we distinguish and really come to terms with the, the thought of, or the idea of friendship as a necessity versus a luxury? Matt: Right. Speaker: Are there examples? I mean, for me the example is, [00:22:00] it's a luxury item. Mm hmm. No big deal, I can find another one. Or this is just for luxury. Or I can get it Matt: cheaper, or Speaker: This person is, is trivial. Like, it's just there to make things look pretty. You know what I'm saying? In life. In a way, in a sense. Whereas, a necessity you take care of. Right? Right. Matt: And, and there you have it. It's exactly what I was gonna say. Like, your Speaker: home is a necessity. Matt: Right. Speaker: A place that is sheltering you is a necessity. So you're not gonna, hopefully, treat it terribly. You're going to take care of it. You're Matt: gonna take care of it. You're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna Speaker: be grateful for it. Yes. When there's a thunderstorm, you know, when it's raining, hopefully, you're thankful that it is providing you shelter. Matt: And you appreciate all the things that your home has, even if it's got a really small kitchen. Speaker: And infestations of various different things that show up every month. Oh dear. But equating it to a [00:23:00] home, it is a necessity, so there needs to be gratitude and a sense of respect for it, and this is what I was going to say. You have to maintain it. Matt: Yes. Speaker: You can't You can't just expect for it to know what you're thinking it's a relationship, it's a back and forth, it's taking care of you, but you have to also take care of it. Matt: And not take it for granted. Speaker: And not take things personally. Like the house didn't email me back. Matt: Not too personally anyways, Speaker: right Matt: because I go back at it. That's You're gonna ignore the house that can be a valid thing. I mean typically like yeah right now Mike Hasn't messaged me back And I messaged him like four times So, okay, Speaker: maybe that wasn't a good example. I'm just Like, like I said, I'm still trying to heal my wound from a friendship that's gone. Um, but, um, but, I think that's, that's pretty clear. [00:24:00] Yeah. I mean, it's something that we have to constantly think about, is that fine line. Yes, because it is a great luxury to have a friendship, to have a few friends even. Wow! Right? It is a luxury. But then, it is a necessity because we're not meant to be alone. And the honest truth is that we're not alone. But we feel alone. Just something to think about. There's no, like, like, concrete answer, but we're not alone, and we are grateful. And that's about it. For me. Do you want to say, do you want to add anything else? Matt: Tend your garden. No. I'm good. Tend your garden. Appreciate all the things that you have, all the people you have, all the comfort you have. Speaker: And take the pebble out of your shoe. Matt: And yes. Speaker: Thanks for listening, you guys. We'll talk to you soon. If you need us, reach out to us. Have a beautiful every day. Matt: Be well.