MATT: [00:00:00] Hello everyone. Welcome back to our Friendly World with Fawn and Matt. FAWN: Hi everybody. MATT: Ah, so here we are and Fawns asked me to lead the show today, so this will be fun. So, something I was thinking about this morning was, have you ever been in that situation where you just, you needed a win, you really, really wanted a win? Because maybe things aren't going quite the way you want them to. Now, how does spin into friendship, it fits in in our sense of self, right? It fits into, how we go through the world, how we perceive the world, and, and kind of our worldview is how I see it. So, so fa, what do you think? Needing a win, really needing a win. FAWN: From the moment we met at martial arts school, you said stuff like that, and I never had thought about it that way because when things were going [00:01:00] bad, I mean, when we met, I walked into the dojo and I had a terrible job, really mean bosses. So by the end of the day after work, when I would come in, I would come in crying, like trying to try to wipe off the day. And between that and struggling with Bills, trying to make it as an artist photographer. Then having a, a nine to five corporate like office job, right? Being mistreated at work, you know, like feeling like the smallest of the small and feeling so insignificant. I never thought about even asking myself, how can I even get a win? Or thinking I just need a win? Like, things were so deep. I just didn't even think of asking for a win or that I needed a win. I never even thought about it that way. I think just thinking about needing a win is a win because you, you're, you are looking [00:02:00] forward to it. Whereas me, I was just drowning. I'm like, okay, I'm drowning, MATT: but were you drowning every moment of every day? FAWN: A lot of it. Yeah. MATT: Well, a lot of it is different than all of it. I mean, FAWN: honestly, the My breath me coming up was coming into that dojo. 'Cause it was so different from the rest of my life. No one there was from my neighborhood. Right. No one was from work. No one was even like, remotely close to what I did. Like everybody was so different from me. MATT: That is true. FAWN: So it was such a breath of fresh air. So it was like, that for me was how I, it kept me alive. Like it gave me life. Mm-hmm. But I, I never thought about it. I never thought about like. I need a win. But I would always hear you say like when you saw me really upset, and this is when we were starting to become friends. Like you would talk to me, you had so much compassion, but you would lean over and say, you know, when the world [00:03:00] is this absurd, you just, when things get to the point of like, everything seems to be sucking right, you have to laugh at it and go, this is just has gone into the realm of absurdity. So like. I just remember you saying stuff like that and then also talking about getting a win. Like I just need a win, you know? Right. So anyway, does that answer your question in a way? What was your question? I'm sorry. MATT: I just ask your perceptions about wanting slash needing wins and, and. Boom. There you go. And you, well you define literally, FAWN: I guess for me, thinking about MATT: a win is a win. FAWN: Well, yes. And also for me, thinking of a, a win, I always think of the big win. Whereas you, I'm noticing, I've noticed like our whole life together. Mm-hmm. You're talking about like even a teeny tiny little mouse of a [00:04:00] win is a huge win can be. Whereas for me, I was just like, I need a big win. Right. It's, it was like an all or nothing and it led me to understand that I need to appreciate things and be grateful. Like it kind of goes in that realm of being grateful, but it doesn't have that, that speak that is now so trendy now. Like, oh, be grateful for everything. You know, you didn't speak that way. You were just like, MATT: good God. FAWN: What are the, what's a win here? I need a win. Right? It could be finding a quarter on the street. MATT: It depends on where you are at, what a win looks like, and the trick with finding a quarter on the street is. That's a difficult one because that's something that you don't have any control over. Whether or not you find a quarter on the street other than you are looking on the street. Really not. Yeah. How much control do you really have over that? If there are no quarters on any streets, you'll never find a quarter. FAWN: You know what, Matt, I, I don't understand [00:05:00] what you just said. By the way. What? There are always quarters on the street. Are there? There's always something. Look, one night. It was a windy night. It was in Santa Monica. It was kind of late. The stores were closing and we were in an area. I wasn't with you, I was with a friend. We were in an area where all the ugly stores are, so it was like, it was east of Lincoln. So for those of you who don't know, like Santa Monica, California, we had like even shirts that had the acronym, A wall, and it stood for always west of Lincoln because. Lincoln was a huge street that would divide pretty much all of la but if you were on the west side of it, the temperature was 20 degrees cooler and if you literally crossing the street, it was sunny and hot and people were very angry all the time. So when we had to go to work, when we had to like leave. If we were going east of Lincoln, people would say Uhoh. [00:06:00] Okay. Like they practically crossed themselves, you know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. Like, oh no, you're going east of Lincoln. So this was east of Lincoln and it was like close to closing time. It was like really dark outside. It was really windy. The Santa Ana's were in full force. And you know, once again, I was having issues with money and everything, and my friend was saying, you have to be positive. You know, like. God always provides blah, blah, blah. She's very like, she was a woman of faith. So anyway, so we're walking and in a dark parking lot. Mm-hmm. I noticed something like flickering, like a butterfly or something, and it was on the ground and it was so windy, Matt. I walked up to it and it was $2, $2 bills. But it was like there was an invisible thumb on it, but the wind was blowing so hard that it was flapping around. Right. But it was still there, and I [00:07:00] picked it up. I'm like, oh my goodness. Like, do you know what I'm saying? Yes. That was a huge win. And that's happened to us a few times. Remember our lottery tickets? MATT: Mm-hmm. FAWN: When we were living on an island, we got lottery tickets and it was when we were newly parents. Things were really tough financially. When we got home, we realized, uh oh, the tickets, they flew away. Like we lost them, right? So I'm like, let's go back and retrace our steps, which seemed futile because it's windy outside. It's by the sound, which is the water. The tickets were waiting for us on that street with all the wind and all the cars . There's always that possibility. There's always a quarter for you out there. Have I veered you away from my room? You veered well MATT: as, as is your want. WONT? Um, what's FAWN: that? MATT: It's a word. It's just what does that mean as you do. FAWN: Really? MATT: Yeah. As you do, FAWN: where do you find all these words, Matt? MATT: I read an awful lot. [00:08:00] Okay. I read an awful lot. FAWN: And it's pronounced want MATT: WONT? Yes. Really? FAWN: Yes. Wow. MATT: Yes. What FAWN: does it MATT: meaning again? It's like your creed. It's like your, the way you look at things. Okay. You immediately take us into the realm of the spiritual, and I wanted to keep us in the realm of the very tactical and practical. FAWN: Okay, go, man, I'm gonna be quiet. MATT: Very tactical, very practical. So what do you do? What do you do if there are no quarters on the streets? If a, if finding a quarter on the street is a win, or if you're willing to accept whatever comes your way. You can perceive as a win, as a win. Sometimes that doesn't happen. Sometimes that doesn't happen. So because it's outside of your control, it's completely outside of your control. [00:09:00] So when I'm in that mood phase reality where I need a win. I look at it very different, and I look at it in the, I, I start to, I start to take myself away from the the spiritual and into the practical. So a win for me is, and the answer is usually, it depends, but it's going to be something that's inside of my control. FAWN: You're always telling me that. You know, you're, you're a stoic, so nothing is in your control, but your own integrity. So what is in your control then? MATT: How I choose? It's more than just my own integrity, slightly. The things inside of my control are my own integrity, my own values, as well as how I choose to react to the world. [00:10:00] That is again in my control. So if somebody cuts me off on the road and I flipped them up, that was inside of my control. It wasn't inside of my control. The guy cut up, cut me off, but it was inside of my control to get angry and then to explode all over the guy. So it's about keeping that together. So. Inside of that very narrow constraint, what does a win even look like? How do you, how can you define a win other than just, well, I was myself today, so woo-hoo. That's a win. And I think honestly, wins come from one or two really tiny things, and it comes from certainly looking back and reviewing the Course of a day and saying, you know, was there anything I did today that I'm especially proud of that I did especially well, and that's what FAWN: you do when you don't, [00:11:00] 'cause, when I get into a mood mm-hmm. Even things that I'm normally proud of, like I'm a great cook. Mm-hmm. I'm, I like to, you know, I do certain things in, in a very artistic way in our home. Right. And I'm proud of that. But when I get into a mood, Matt, mm-hmm. The thoughts come in, I'm the worst cook. I am the sloppiest. I'm basically negating everything that I felt good about myself, right? Negating that. So I can't even go there. Do you know what I'm saying? So what do you do in that case? Do you have that kind of mind trash where you're telling yourself, I'm ugly, I'm not talented, I'm not worth anything. Where you usually that that's not the case. And you know that's not the case. You know, you're a good cook, you know you're a great cook. Mm-hmm. You know that you have these virtues, but when you get into a mood, when you have that mind trash, do you, what do you do when it's telling you the opposite? You're telling yourself the [00:12:00] opposite. MATT: When you are physically telling yourself the opposite. Yeah, you're right. You're pretty, you're pretty hosed. You're pretty, that's. That's a hard one to dig out of. And honestly, for me it becomes I need to change the surface areas, change the dynamic, change the reality, and so all of a sudden if I'm beating myself up over, let's say, cooking, flip the script, something else, anything else? Trying to, figure out how you can eke out a win. And maybe, you know, I would, I would hope you can define a win as I'm going to react to this better. But sometimes you look for a more objective measure and maybe that win becomes almost something mundane, like, I'm not gonna let dot, dot dot bother me, or I'm going to. God, I'm having a slightly challenging time thinking about it [00:13:00] because I have my own like, series of objective measures. Things like when I feel like I need to win, I can jump on my bike and I can see how far I can go in 15 minutes and if I really push it, and that's 15 minutes out and then 15 minutes back, so it's really a half an hour. But if I really push it, I know that I can either get super close or do better than the distance that I've been before. FAWN: This makes me think of when we were parents for the first time. Mm-hmm. And the baby wouldn't stop crying. And I, I mean, I was doing everything and I was exhausted. Mm-hmm. I mean, you got more sleep than I did. Mm-hmm. So then you would take the baby and then I, I felt even more terrible 'cause I'm like, I can't even take care of the baby. Like, but then what you would say was. All she needs is a change of scenery. You need to change. What would, what would you say you need? A change of atmosphere. MATT: [00:14:00] Change of perspective. Change of atmosphere. So FAWN: is like being held by someone else or leaving the house for a little bit. . Mm-hmm. Going to another room. Sometimes changing the temperature. Yes. That makes all the difference. Can Yes. For you to switch? Your mindset. And in that case it was the baby's mindset. So, you know, to have the baby stop crying, MATT: right? And, and martial arts can show us that as well because there's a story about the, the young student and the old master and the young student is like, but I'm faster and I'm meaner and I can, I can whoop you and all the rest of it. And, the master stands there and doesn't say anything. But the student goes to attack him, and the master just thumps him on the forehead, just taps him on the forehead and that's it. Not a strike, not an anything, but it was a change in his perspective. And then he realized maybe he didn't know as much as he thought he did. FAWN: So it was a little [00:15:00] boop. MATT: It was a little boop. Yes it was. Yes it was. And sometimes you're right, sometimes it is a change of scenery. Sometimes it is figuring out in. Those times where you don't need a win, what a win might look like. So a win for me sometimes is, um, there are lots of websites that offer various and sundry programming challenges, and you can pick an easy one. And the easy ones don't start easy. They're not easy when you first do 'em, but when you start to see the patterns and you start to see what's what, all of a sudden they become easier. The trick is, is that. Um, you have to be careful how you define your wins and your win can't be "i'm gonna get a million likes from my post" because you don't have any control over that. But maybe your win is if, if you're in that sphere, and I'm not. But maybe your win is, I'm going to post [00:16:00] two things today. 'cause guess what? You can do that you have control over that. Unless an act of God comes down and you lose power, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But would you then say, oh, well I guess I'm a loser. I guess I didn't because I didn't do what I set out to do for my win, I guess. I guess I'm No, you wouldn't say that. You would say, wow, you know, the world conspired to, to make sure I didn't do that. FAWN: So is this where you would always tell me about momentum? MATT: This is part of momentum. Yes. So FAWN: like to explain to our friends, can you give an example of how you would describe momentum to me? 'cause I would be like, what's the use, Matt? And you're like, it's all about momentum. It's all about momentum. Can you explain to our friends what you meant back then? So. MATT: Okay, so we have like two, we have many, but we have two different minds in our own head. There's our conscious mind and our subconscious mind, and sometimes our subconscious mind and our conscious mind are not on the same [00:17:00] page. And so tiny acts that you do inform your subconscious what you are about is how I look at it. And so something like, I wanna write a book. It can be enough to write a paragraph on a day to cue your whole essence into, this is what I wanna do if you build on it properly, and that, that's the trick, is building on it properly. So maybe it's writing a paragraph one day, writing, seven paragraphs the next day, or going through first thing when you wake up, think through what it is you wanna write 'em. I mentioned this because I'm thinking, oh, dear, still about writing a book. FAWN: I just, I remember the example you gave years ago when we were first dating. I was looking for a job or you were looking for a job and you were like, it's the momentum. That's momentum. And I think it was like going to the gym and working out, [00:18:00] like you're creating momentum. MATT: You are. It FAWN: has nothing to do. It seems like it has nothing to do with finding a job. The momentum. You're building momentum by going in the gym. MATT: Well, you're, FAWN: or, or, or going, I'm sorry I keep interrupting you. But, or by going on a bike ride or walking or going, jogging or moving your body is the momentum forward towards a better outcome MATT: and sometimes we don't even understand why what we're doing will lead us to dot, dot, dot. But you know, there have been occasions where, actions I have taken have ramifications way down the line, right? So yes, momentum is very important, but we're trying to talk about wins and needing and wanting wins. But that, FAWN: Doesn't that guide you towards the wind though? It, it can, I'm just remembering all the things you've told me. Mm-hmm. That like moved me so much that helped me so much. So I'm just trying to bring those in [00:19:00] as well as examples. Do you know what I'm saying? MATT: I, I, I understand. I guess I'm more kind of laser focused on kind of where my head is at right now. 'cause ladies and gentlemen, I am once again on Quest for a new job. So anyways, so what does a win in that whole context even look like? Does a win look like, let's say I had an interview. Hey, hey, does a win look like, I got the job? Well, that's challenging because guess what? I don't have control over that. I really don't. For all I know the person on the other side of the camera, 'cause I'm planning on going remote still, doesn't like my face or already has someone lined up or the position has disappeared, but they're too ashamed to admit it or. Or, or, or, or, or they misread my resume and I'm not a fit anymore. Or, and on and on and on. There's a million things you don't have control [00:20:00] over. And, and frankly, it doesn't matter how good, bad, or indifferent you are, if the interviewer has stacked the interview in certain ways, you're gonna fail. And if they stacked it in other ways, you're always going to succeed. It's a messed up thing, but ultimately speaking, you don't have any control over it. So in that situation, I view a win as did I represent myself well? Do they understand what I'm about, and have I gotten enough information to determine whether or not this is a place that I would be happy at? And if I can answer yes to all three of those, I'm good. I've won. Because there's only so much you have control over. Classic, stoic story is, Archer, Archer shooting at Target, whatever that target is, right? The instant he releases his arrow, he's done and he has no control over the outcome. Ultimately speaking. And [00:21:00] that's kind of the mindset. Now, that doesn't mean he didn't train like a fiend. That doesn't mean he got the best bow. That doesn't mean he's got arrows that are perfectly straight. It perhaps means all of those things. He's done all the prep. He's done everything he can to make the best possible shot, but ultimately speaking, a win can crop up. He could be shooting at a wind can crop up, he can be shooting at a moving target that changes its speed. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. FAWN: And that's where, to me, the spiritual aspect comes in because you've done your part, the momentum, right? And then you're releasing it to the universe. You're releasing it to God, you're releasing it to a higher power and having faith that the other side will do its job. MATT: But then you have the possibility of getting mad at God, don't you? Yeah. Yeah. Whereas in my world, I've won, and in your world, you only win [00:22:00] when things happen outside of your control. FAWN: Can't expect. The outcome to be a certain way. MATT: Mm-hmm. FAWN: Like our kids, one of them wanted to apologize to the other and was afraid to do so because of the response that would, come as a result of apologizing for something that was done that was terrible. Mm-hmm. And I said. You have no control over that and you shouldn't have any expectations of a particular outcome. All you can do is apologize. I've reached a point where when I have let that arrow go, the target that I am seeking. Once I let it go, I should know that. It may not be my intended target. It may go to a different target that is for my best good, MATT: right, FAWN: for my highest good. Mm-hmm. So, or I don't know all the reasons and all the ramifications. I don't know the grand scheme of things, right? [00:23:00] So I've come to a point in life where I'm like, okay, I've done everything I'm supposed to do, and I may not see the outcome because I have a limited scope. I'm myopic I have to trust that I'm guided to where I'm supposed to be. And so when I start getting mad at God, mm-hmm. And I do, yeah, there are many times I'm like, what the F man? But then I'll calm down hopefully and think, okay, all right, I trust you, but things are looking really dire over here. Can you please send me something? Help? MATT: So close to where I'm at. And yet, so far, FAWN: what do you mean? MATT: I'm not mad at God? I'm happy with myself and what comes, comes. FAWN: See, you're so much more evolved than I am. No, you really are. [00:24:00] Sometimes I wonder why we're together. Like I must be the dumbest, like weirdest. Like, why are you with me? Sometimes I wonder, like, I don't read the way you read. I don't know want WONT? Nobody MATT: knows that word. Come on. By the FAWN: way, our honeymoon, we got into our first huge argument. Oh yeah. Because we were playing Scrabble and Matt put down a two letter word that was worth like 16,000 hundred points. Mu mu, MATT: mu mu. FAWN: I'm like, that is not a word. And we started, I was yelling. It was awful. And then I made you look it up. And then I just wanted to, I, I took the dictionary and just, I was like, did I turn over? I, I, I refused to play. Yeah. Angry stopped. Yeah. That So angry. That MATT: was a thing. We didn't play Scrabble again to eat. We have Scrabble. I see it. Yeah. We FAWN: have now we have many forms of the Scrabble game. Let's MATT: [00:25:00] play. FAWN: I only like to touch the tiles. I like the way they feel. Let's play. No, MATT: anyways. FAWN: No, but seriously, like do you think I'm just a stupid person? No. And of course you're not gonna say I'm stupid, but not at all. MATT: Not at all. FAWN: I just don't. MATT: You and I come at things from different perspectives and there's a strength to that and there's a beauty to that wildly different, by the way, FAWN: sometimes. I mean, most of the time it's people on the outside looking at us, like, how are those two together? But sometimes I think it too. I'm like, how are we together? What. MATT: And what's interesting is I never do FAWN: ouch. MATT: Ever. FAWN: I'm sorry. Anyways, folks. Well, because you know, 'cause you're, again, you're much more evolved. 'cause I scored, what do you mean? I scored? I scored, I scored. Anyways, okay. This is getting gross for other people. All right. Thank you. MATT: Whether you view your wins the way I do or the way the wife does, FAWN: I just realized you're way more positive [00:26:00] than I'm MATT: I. I hope you have many of them. FAWN: Yes. Okay. Say that again. I interrupted. MATT: Whether you look at wins the way I do or the way my wife does, I hope you have many of them. Okay, everyone take care. A FAWN: have a beautiful, every day. MATT: Be well.