CONNECTED – Roundtable #4 , The Reemergence

This roundtable is about the physiological feat that’s necessary for survival; hibernation, and the various forms we go within and “slumber” to regain not only life, but understanding. And then we discuss the ways in which we reemerge and blossom.

How do we come out of our slumber spiritually, emotionally and physically after the time we have just lived through?

We share all the different ways in nature we go within (from all the different periods of time animals hibernate, to being an introvert, a society going through dark times, to living inside of a pandemic) and all the different ways we can reemerge and come out better and more powerful.

We talk about the meaning of renaissance (rebirth from Latin) and how throughout history we have come out of the darkness, and reemerged with art and imagination and created societies with greater knowledge of spirituality, ingenuity, creativity, ambition, scholarly feats, and awakening to a beautiful world.

We are entering a new world that we are building together.

This roundtable is about the physiological feat that’s necessary for survival; hibernation, and the various forms we go within and “slumber” to regain not only life, but understanding. And then we discuss the ways in which we reemerge and blossom.

How do we come out of our slumber spiritually, emotionally and physically after the time we have just lived through?

We share all the different ways in nature we go within (from all the different periods of time animals hibernate, to being an introvert, a society going through dark times, to living inside of a pandemic) and all the different ways we can reemerge and come out better and more powerful.

We talk about the meaning of renaissance (rebirth from Latin) and how throughout history we have come out of the darkness, and reemerged with art and imagination and created societies with greater knowledge of spirituality, ingenuity, creativity, ambition, scholarly feats, and awakening to a beautiful world.

We are entering a new world that we are building together.

TRANSCRIPT:

[00:00:00] Fawn: [00:00:00] All right, everyone. Welcome to connected our round table of friends showing how truly interconnected we all are. Today's topic is reemergence reemergence.

 A sperm whale can spend around 90 minutes hunting underwater before coming back to surface to breathe .Different types of whales, spend different amounts of time underwater and some go deeper than others.

What's interesting about whales is they exhale first, getting rid of all the stale air in their lungs before taking in fresh clean air, a fresh, clean breath. As humans, we tend to breathe in first and then exhale, leaving a lot of stale air in our lungs. So as humans, we absorb only 5% of the oxygen in a single breath. [00:01:00] A whale can absorb as much as 90% of oxygen in each breath.

Today I tried to totally exhale, exhale, exhale, as much as I could. And when you think you can't do some more and then naturally you start getting all the air coming in and then you slowly exhale and it feels amazing, with just one breath, it's amazing how you get this rush in your brain of like, you just get a rush. And I got a little bit dizzy myself

 So, volcanoes, volcanoes can be dormant for 10,000 years until they have their reemergence.  There's  a physiological feat that's necessary for animal survival, and that is a hibernation. Another kind of reemergence that can happen is through hibernation.

Check this out. Bears can hibernate from anywhere between five and six [00:02:00] months without moving from their den. Also, there are other animals like box turtles who hibernate three to four months, wood frogs for three months, common poor wills, one to three months of hibernation, bats hibernate some of them for up to six months, Bumble bees hibernate six to seven months, snails hibernate up to three years. Oh, I didn't think snails lived that long to have a hibernation period that last three years, skunks for four months, hedgehogs, anywhere from six weeks to six months, snakes hibernate  anywhere from five to six months. We have groundhogs three to six months. We have the flat tailed dwarf lemur up to seven months, chipmunks hibernate for four months. Deer mice, I'm not sure how long they hibernate for, but they [00:03:00] hibernate .Geckos do it three to four months, ground squirrels, seven to nine months of hibernation. Hummingbirds do it. Ladybugs do it. Lady bugs, hibernate three to four months, lizards for five, a Marmot five to six, Prairie dogs, six months of hibernation.

I wonder how all these other animals come out of their slumber spiritually, physically. Like what are the steps that they can teach us in reemerging from a time of totally going within, uh, you know, I wonder I really don't have the answer, but I wonder do they tip toe outside?

Are they groggy? Do they go out with full force, full steam ahead like, woohoo, world! Here I am.

Matt: [00:03:50] Or are they super weak and hungry?

Fawn: [00:03:53] I don't know. Do they have to go to the bathroom right away? Do they brush their teeth? [00:04:00] Do they gargle with mouthwash? Do they need coffee?

Matt: [00:04:04] Do they got to pick up the mail and sort through it all?

Fawn: [00:04:08] So all this reminds me of our society. It's interesting. There are different ways we can all hibernate. And I think of the Renaissance period, where we have the great re-emergence of the arts and imagination. And if you think about the word Renaissance, it literally translates to rebirth from Latin.

It means rebirth. So society came into this great engenuity creativity, ambition, everything from the arts to  I mean everything to scholarly feats, to politics, to you name it, the world was awakened suddenly. This period of time came out of a really dark time. Right. We talk about the medieval ages.

Are you bored, Matt? You look really bored

Matt: [00:04:56] I was thinking about, okay. That's that's all well and good. What was [00:05:00] happening in China? What was happening in South America? What was happening?

Fawn: [00:05:03] I know, I know

Matt: [00:05:03] it's a very Eurocentric way of looking at it.

This is totally just one example. Much like different animals hibernate for different times in different ways.

 This, this area of the world awakened to this thing, but then they do have a major control element on a lot of the planet; with politics and everything, but yeah, you're right. Like, I don't know. But, so it's just one example, guys. Just one example. And speaking of one example, I'm thinking about the United States and I'm wondering, are we in a medieval period right now?

It seems like perhaps we were in a Renaissance because we have had in the last hundred years, so much technology, so much innovation. Right. But on a social level, I feel like we are totally the depths of the medieval times with the way that we treat each other with all the violence. I mean, it's [00:06:00] downright medieval, don't you think?

Yeah, no, I've heard, I've heard similar, I've read similar things, talking about how we went from,  the horse drawn carriage to outer space in the span of like 80 years. But what, where did we go as far as our ethics, as far as our philosophy, as far as our... you know, if it feels like we're stuck,

Fawn: [00:06:22] it feels like we went backwards and we're indeed stuck in the depths of hell some days.

 I mean, I there's been, especially the past year depths of hell, man. When are we going to wake up from this nightmare  is what I keep hearing from our friends and which, which at the same time, we're we are having a reemergence of spirituality because think about over the last 10, 15, 20 years, the word meditation, like everyone is now meditating.

I remember, I don't know how long ago, but Oprah was teaching the whole audience how to meditate. That was [00:07:00] unheard of. People didn't even, I mean, that was such a woo woo thing. It was such a strange thing to most people, but like, think about as many nail salons and Starbucks we have on every corner, we have yoga studios everywhere. That was, I mean, that's pretty, that's a big leap to incorporate yoga. There are still even today, so many religions that are against yoga. So if you practice yoga, they feel like you're evil because they don't want you to be powerful like that. You know, it's like, uh, it's it's against your religion to do yoga.

I don't know if Katy, have you heard about that?

Katy: [00:07:40] No, not at all.

Fawn: [00:07:42] Oh my God. When I was, when I was getting my yoga license, my teaching, I remember people, like I heard all kinds of people saying growing up, they had to hide it from their parents when they were doing yoga, that it was totally against their religion.

Like these are Christian

[00:08:00] religion.

Matt: [00:08:01] Well, hold on. You know, one of the main tenants of Christianity is thou shalt have no gods before me. Right? That's very old Testament, but it's still part of Christianity as well. And they may be, they might've been viewing yoga as being its own religion

Katy: [00:08:15] maybe

because it does have a huge spiritual aspect to it.

Fawn: [00:08:18] And you do have Ganesha you do have like all these entities, these examples that you have statutes of. So yeah, there are, I don't know if it's that. I, I don't know if it's going within and knowing that you have all the power, all the resources within yourself and they don't like that. They want you to go to a spiritual leader for that.

They don't want you to feel like you, you can access it from your own being that you are God. I think that's probably like a big no-no in most religions, but just, it's interesting. Like all these things are happening now. And, and [00:09:00] so here are my questions for today: what else is reemerging in life?  How are the different ways re-emergence exists?

I know, so we were talking Matt in the kitchen yesterday, we were talking about the re-emergence of personalities, strength, art, music celebration. Like, there are so many ways we can look at reemergence and what that is. And so here are the questions for today. Obviously we're in a pandemic, it's still here and I know there's half of the population that's been outside. And then there's the other half who's been totally quarantined religiously quarantined. But when we all come out, how are we going to show up for ourselves? But how are we going to show up for our, for others? How do we show up? And, you know, we can also look at technology. How is technology going to reemerge itself?

Like what will, what will the world look like when we [00:10:00] come out? Medicine? How is medicine reemerging in our lives? We have, I heard a long time ago. Well, it feels like years ago, but it was actually the beginning of the pandemic. I heard some people talking about, the race for the vaccine and how really this could be a huge turning point for discovering ways to find cures to diseases that have completely troubled our humanity for so long, like cancer.

So the way that we're looking at viruses could be a key. And discovering the vaccine could be a key to discovering the cure to cancer or the cure to alzheimers like all these things that have been plaguing us. So  good things can reemerge.

How do you all see our worlds and how do we reemerge?

How do we come out of this? What will it look like? I don't to [00:11:00] take it to a simple level. I was telling KJ the other day. I wouldn't even know how to go outside. Like it would probably feel like, um, someone who hasn't bathed in months, which happened to me by the way, when I was photographing out in the Bush, I went for almost six weeks without bathing.

So water did not touch my skin. I was in the desert. I was out in the Bush for that long. And the first time I took a shower, it was a shock to my system. Like I didn't understand it was a shock. I can't describe the feeling to you of having water trickle on my head and touch my skin. It was the most absurd, weirdest, foreign sensation.

I can't describe it guys. I wish I could, but it was a shocker. Like, I, I, I was like, what is this? And so I wonder if I'm going to feel that way when I'm really [00:12:00] stepping out there. I mean, guys, I used to travel all the time.  The world was my living room. I just went from place to place. I don't even know.

So I was talking to KJ I'm like KJ:  KJ, I don't even know how to step outside our little apartment.  Am I going to freak out? And so she said something like, step one step at a time, right, KJ?.

KJ: [00:12:20] Yeah. I was just like, step outside your door first, stand on the porch,

start there.

Fawn: [00:12:28] And then what? I don't know.

Matt: [00:12:30] Right. And, and what happens when I'm at the supermarket and I'm reaching for the same loaf of bread, someone else's reaching for, what does that even look like? What does it look like when I have to navigate past somebody? What we both go to the right. We both, you know, it's a, it's an interesting thought,

Fawn: [00:12:46] you know, like during the, during those pandemic, I always have the sensation, like at any moment I can just let it all go. Like, have you ever tried to not make a mess? [00:13:00] Like you're in the kitchen and you're pouring something. And I can't think of an exact example, but like, you're very careful to not make a mess. And then all of a sudden you make a tiny little mess and you're like, well, forget it.

What you just give up. And all of a sudden you have  maple syrup all, all over your arm. And you're like, Oh, well, you're just letting it go everywhere. Cause you want to delve into that messiness and just feeling all of it. And so during this pandemic, I've always thought, well, I'm taking one step at a time.

I'm like getting out here and I'm going over here and I'm getting more brave. What if I just let loose and started hugging everybody all of a sudden, like, I, it could be so easily done or right. Or like if I relaxed, totally and lose control and like completely release into it. It's such a weird sensation, much like that shower that I had in [00:14:00] Ethiopia, it was like, it was just like total release.

You know, I always think about that.

Katy: [00:14:06] So can I say one thing fawn?

Fawn: [00:14:08] Please.

Katy: [00:14:09] Um, we did that at work, you know, unfortunately in Boulder last week we was at awful shooting. And, um, one of the women that I work with is a victim advocate and she was talking about working with some of the families. And so we were, there were two other women and I talking to her and all of a sudden we said, that's it.

And we hugged each other. We said, I don't care. We all needed hugs. So we just did it. And we're like, we, a hug was so much more important at that time, then the pandemic and, and we're like, well, I was all vaccinated. So I'm like, I don't care. And I think a couple other people were, but we're just like, you know what, we're just doing it.

I don't care what anybody says. We need each other to hug and we did it and we felt so much better.

Fawn: [00:14:58] Can we talk about how [00:15:00] your, I could see tears in your eyes?

Katy: [00:15:02] Yeah. Sorry

Fawn: [00:15:04] can you, can you, can we talk about that? Tell me what it is you're feeling. Why are you crying? Can you explore that for me? Cause I feel it too.

I feel it in my chest, but I don't maybe KJ can help explain what this is. Why are we crying?

Katy: [00:15:21] Well, I just feel, I mean, you know, the news has been on like 24 seven and the papers and everything. And with talking about all the victims and you know, how, and the other thing, you know, that, that King Soopers, what really interesting phenomenon they said is that some of the stores, um, and you know, in your that's your neighborhood store and you go there to, um, to go grocery shop and see the people who work there on the store.

And that is so-called your store. It's your tribe. It's your village outlet. [00:16:00] Going there and connecting with other people. Um, so they would only go out to the grocery store and that was it. And that was their connection. And so, and I could, I could definitely feel that same feeling because we have customers coming in too.

And they would all come in and talk to us and about how they were feeling. So I really connect with, with all those people that work in the store and, and how they must feel. And also because it's just so close, it could have happened to us too. And it was just very frightening.

Fawn: [00:16:34] You know, I, when we were trying to figure out where it was like, we ha we, we heard the sirens, so the TV came on and we were looking at the, uh, the aerial shots.

I'm like, Oh my God, that's right here. And I was wondering if it was our store and it doesn't even matter whose store it is, but we're all. It's our village.

[00:17:00] Katy: [00:17:00] That's right. It is. Everybody can associate with that because we have our stores and, and, you know, I just, it just, I don't know, it just hits so close.

And then that, then that same day we had to return, our dog, and it was just a bad day. I mean, not return our dog, but give our dog back to the shelter. Cause she wasn't working out after we tried so hard with her and it was like, Ugh. And I really got attached to her.

Fawn: [00:17:33] So it was just, I know that's all, that's a lot of loss.

Yeah. And God knows what Nii goes through. Like Nii sees, everything he is here with you guys. We have KJ today. We have Katie. Nii, Matt and me obviously, but how do you handle, how do you handle the [00:18:00] loss and the stress? God knows what you've seen as an emergency surgeon, trauma surgeon.

Nii: [00:18:09] Yeah. I, uh, you know, I see death unfortunately, a lot in my line of work, um, particularly what specifically, what, what I do with trauma.

Um, but there's really nothing like seeing people pass away without loved ones around them, that's the tough part, you know? And like, you're, it's literally a person passing away or getting close to it. And the way they are able to connect with their family is through an iPad. It's very difficult, you know, I think, and I think that that's one of the stories that when we re-emerged, I think will really start to take hold about, you know, what it's like to just connect with people, what it's like to be a part of a community or a unit or a family [00:19:00] structure. And then what happens when you're not connected to that and what that does for your health and what that does for your energy and so forth.

And,  the studies will be coming on that. And I think from a provider standpoint, I think we all realize that, from a clinical standpoint, I think we, we understand how the body works and how it heals, but the really big thing that we really don't understand. And I think we're gonna have to spend more time with that is the, uh, is like the energy, the mental health, the Metta that we don't know anything about

Fawn: [00:19:37] the metta!Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Nii: [00:19:41] So for me,  I've definitely learned, just seeing so many people pass away without their family or me going through COVID and it going through my family. And, you know, I think I've definitely learned the importance of just literally just living in the now. And I was definitely the type of person who would plan [00:20:00] years ahead  in advance and always live for tomorrow or live for, you know, some type of delayed gratification.

And after last year and all the different things that you see from famous people passing away to COVID and, you know, uh, you know, personal issues that happen in my family during the, during this time, it's just like, yeah, like you got to enjoy every day and live it to the extreme. And, you know, even with patients and families, you know, I, when I'm talking to them about X, Y, and Z, and, you know, you have someone who may be later on in their life, and it's very clear that whatever is not going to work. Medical plan is not going to work, you know, in the past I would just say, listen, let's just, you know, try such and such surgical procedure. And if it doesn't work, then we can make that decision. But the thing that we don't think about is, is, you know, the trauma that families have to [00:21:00] go through, or even that a patient has to go through.

And even though they may pass away and they're on a ventilator or pass away and they're sedated, you know, it's just, to me, it's just not really dignifying. So I've learned to be more of a, let's really think about this, everyone let's, what's the goals of care. And yes, I can put you through this initial insult and try our best, but likelihood of you getting off the ventilator or the likelihood of you making it out of the hospital is very low.

Is this what you really want? Is this what you really want for your family member? And not that I have those conversations. You know, it's been a very, it's been very hard to connect with people that way, mainly because that's not how I'm trained, but it really has taught me the importance of just really connecting with people, understanding people, looking at people, not just as a patient, but as this person is part of a huge or a larger family structure, community structure.

[00:22:00] And if I work in this community, that's actually, I'm connected to that also. So I think a lot more physicians, I think a lot more medical professionals are looking at life that way, looking at the way, how they care for people that way. And, um, that's how I'm choosing to reemerge back into the world, you know, is just really the importance of connecting of talking to people.

Um, understanding how important life is not just in general, like talking like, Oh yeah, life is great. Or life is important. Like, no, like today is important, right? Like what are you going to do today to really enjoy life? You know? And, um, Yeah. Sorry about that. Sorry for going on a rant.

Fawn: [00:22:40] No, no, this was perfect.

Ni we respect you so much. We're always in awe of you as a human being and in all of you as what you do, like how you are working on other human beings. Like, we want to hear [00:23:00] everything you have to say. We want to hear everything that you're thinking, because God knows, like, I wonder, like how much do you have to push aside?

Like how emotional is your work to, to deal with trauma? I mean, first of all, a trauma surgeon, does that mean like people come in with gunshots? Like, so like D is that what you, I mean, what, what is a trauma surgeon?

Nii: [00:23:25] Yeah, so a trauma surgeon is surgery. That's involved with people who are acutely injured, so that can be fallen downstairs.

That could be. Um, car accident that can be shot that could be stabbed. Um, you know, anything that you can think of where someone is acutely injured,  that kind of falls within my wheelhouse. But then I also do emergency surgery also. So if you have an appendix that needs to be taken out or, um, you know, whatever it is that needs to be done emergently like in hours, or you may have a really bad outcome, I do that type of surgery.

 So usually in those types of [00:24:00] decisions, those decisions are very, I like it because people are like, well, it must be very hard to, to make the, you know, to do what you do. And I'm like, you know, the type of patients I deal with is difficult to deal with, but the decision-making is easy because it's like, well, if you don't do anything, they're going to die.

Right. Or if you don't do anything, you're gonna have a very bad outcome, like soon. Whereas other specialties, , you have time to kind of think about it. There's so many different options in front of you. So actually I think that's harder. What I do with it's like, I didn't. I didn't do anything to your appendix. Like it has to come out, right? Like that's the type of decision it is for me. But I do think that because things happen so quickly and because things are such a life and death situation, there's really no time to think about the in-between. Right. And, you know, I it's, it's really interesting to see how dogmatic that thought process is.

Right. It's very dogmatic. And I think just in general with medicine in general, I think we're starting to realize that a lot of things that we do [00:25:00] in general up until this day is literally only because that's the way someone was taught, you know, maybe 10, 20 years ago. And, uh, it's changing, you know, so there's a lot of stuff in medicine that's, I don't know if you guys have been paying attention, but there's a lot of stuff that when this whole thing re-emerges, it's really going to change even education. Right? So there's this big test that we take in between  right before we graduate from medical school is called the clinical skills test.

And it's a test where you go and you have to fly to a testing center and you are doing a simulation with a, an actor and asking them different questions about, just doing a normal history and physical. Tell me about who you are and where, how many surgeries have you had, what medications, it's just kind of teaching yourself how to, or teaching when showing that you can do this capability, you do a physical examination and you walk out of the room and then you write down a differential diagnosis and you do that for an entire day.

You go through about maybe five or six [00:26:00] patients and from a medical school standpoint, or from a student standpoint, that's a $1,500 test. Um, the testing sites are in very sparse areas of the United States. I think there's only like total like seven. So the majority of people are, are living in places where you have to fly to this place.

And then you have to also have to get a hotel.  So we're talking about a good $2,500, $3,000 investment, and don't forget the people who are taking this test all have loans for the most part, right? So now that the pandemic of occurred, you can't have hundreds and thousands of students, you know, flying into one place and taking this test and coming in after hour, after hour after hour.

So they canceled the test. They, they at first postponed it and then after a while they redid things and they just said, we're going to cancel this test. Well, we later found out is that the reason they did this test was because there was a lot of foreign medical graduates who were coming [00:27:00] into the United States and quote, unquote didn't know how to speak in proper English.

So this was a test to kind of weed that out, but it was also a huge moneymaker for the schools. So it completely like changed. The pandemic has completely changed how we think about certain things. Certain tests that we took that were based off of a number system are now pass fail. Right. And that's huge because it's just like, well, why, why did I have all this anxiety about trying to get in the 90th percentile for this test?

When ultimately what's really important is that I just pass and fail. Right. Right. This is all because of the pandemic. So there's a lot of things within medicine that is changed because of this, this pandemic, a lot of people are frustrated, like, dang it. Why did this pandemic five years ago when I was taking a test?

Um, but it just lets you know, that even within medicine where we do so many different studies and everything is, is tested against this randomized control, like we do things incorrectly also .We do [00:28:00] things just because, so that's how I'm reemerging. It's just realizing that there's a lot of things that need to be re-evaluated and we got to live for

Fawn and Matt: [00:28:06] now.

Matt: [00:28:07] Wow. Nice. Thank you, God. That was powerful. And, and, you know, the pandemic is rewriting all sorts of things and all sorts of industries and medicine, amongst many others, uh, and really attempting to kind of strip down to get to more of the meat of what people are really trying to do instead of the appearance of what they're trying to do.

Nii: [00:28:27] Yeah, you actually said that the best way, actually. That's the best way to say it.

Fawn and Matt: [00:28:31] Happy dance, honey. I, anyway.

Matt: [00:28:38] What really gets me going though for me personally, is what's going to happen at what's going to happen when I'm at the, uh, uh, gas station, filling up my car and I go inside to pay, what's going to happen at, when I run into people on the street, what's going to happen when, you know, uh, we're fighting, I'm fighting with somebody over a parking spot or, you [00:29:00] know, what's going to happen,  at the farmer's market, even walking down,  I mean, we, we've gone through now a period of a year of stay six feet away, at least put on a mask, which is very dehumanizing.

And it's it's hard because, you know, I honestly, I can't see somebody smiling under a mask and that's just what it is. So, you know, everybody looks very stern and clinical and mean, and we're also being taught to stay away from each other. And yet, as human beings, as a human tribe, we need that closeness.

We need that touch. We need hugs.

Fawn: [00:29:33] I think this was a perfect time out. The thing is we were totally separated before. We were completely not even hanging out together before. Seriously, we weren't, I don't care. What, what kind of hate mail is going to come at me for saying this, but really it wasn't there, but because we were put on time out, I think now we realize how important a human touch truly [00:30:00] is, how healing it is.

You know, there are, I'm sure some things that the most advanced medical procedure cannot fix, but a human touch can, a prayer can a thought can transform everything and bring them out spontaneous healing. So I think when the masks come off and we can truly fully reemerge. I think we'll see a shiny new toy in what we previously had before as a toy we had in the corner that we just ignored or what's the word for it?

When you ignore something, you just, uh, does something with it, dismissed you dismiss. Thank you. All of the things that were previously dismissed, we will look at with a shining spotlight and see how truly amazing it is much like the sun. Let's talk about  going back to having things seems so dark and [00:31:00] medieval.

Well, the sun re-emerges every day. Right? And it's so beautiful and midday, we can feel like, Oh, it's too much sun. Like I personally feel like too much sun. I lose all my energy. It's too hot. I hate it. But I like, and then the night comes and you go through that. And then when the sun comes up, you're like, Oh my God, it's so beautiful.

 I don't know. I don't know if it's a cycle. I don't know if, as a society, we're just going through another cycle coming out of some medieval period. And I hope we're going into this run through this Renaissance period of hopefully like once and for all having light shine upon everything and how there will be just respect and [00:32:00] compassion and peace and economic, equality and racial equality and just love.

I mean, You guys know where I'm headed.

Matt: [00:32:13] Yep. Personally, you know, I'm going to take this opportunity to really kind of double down on what it is to be me, which, you know, I'm, I'm reasonably open. I'm, I'm very communicative. And I, you know, I'm not, I don't shy away from conversations and I like asking people random questions, what I'm most hopeful for and I think will happen at least initially, as that people are going to be more open to talking just in general, with strength, with quote unquote, strangers that they, that they meet. You know, that's something that I've noticed just with teammates, you know, I'm able to catch them more on personal conversations.

And the fact is if I remember something about someone, cause that's what I do. It's one of my superpowers. Um, you know, they're, they're even happier than normal that somebody has recognized them and [00:33:00] sees them and moves forward. I just get nervous that what's going to happen is much like you remember that first shower.

Do you remember your fifth shower?

Fawn: [00:33:09] No.

Matt: [00:33:09] Exactly. That's the thing that gets me worried that everybody's just going to want to, Whoa, let's go back to normal.

everyone: [00:33:17] No, there is no more normal. There is no way we can go back to normal.

Matt: [00:33:21] You'd be surprised.

Fawn: [00:33:23] but this is the beauty of hibernation. The reason why I brought up all these other animals that hibernate, is it's needed.

So we needed to go inside. We needed to go and really delve deep into the darkness and see everything. I mean, it's interesting. We all had to go in and then yet at the same time, everything was exposed. Right? All the violence is exposed the, in the, in what's the word in, uh, in, uh, what's the word justice.

[00:34:00] Um, and in the adequacies. And I said in attic, I can't pronounce inadequacy. Okay. Inadequacy the N I can't pronounce it. The inadequacies of government around the world, like everything, we're, we're seeing  all the bad, you know, it's been there all along. And I feel like even though it's dark, I think it's a very important phase that much, like how there was that statement that, that said, you know, hibernation is a physiological feat that's necessary for survival.

I think this having to go inside, having to be shut, shut down has been so vital for survival. It's been so needed. And I mean, and I can also take it to art. Like, I'll just, and I'll be quiet after this, but like photography take photography as an example, [00:35:00] as a photographer, I was always surrounded by other professional photographers, like amazing artists.

And they were like, Fawn you need to be shooting every day. You need to be photographing every day. You need to work on your craft every day. You need to take a snapshot every day, every day, every day, every day. And that really stressed me out because I don't operate like that. I would go for months without taking one image.

And in that time I would freak out because of course, all my peers would say, well, I'm photographing every day where they are every day. Look at what I made. Look at what I made. Look, look, look, look, and it was just like enough already. So I had to go even further in and like get away from all that, because what I felt was that in listening to that, I felt like, well, gee, if I'm not snapping away, if I'm not creating for you every day, I have lost my mojo.

It has left me. The creative force has left me [00:36:00] because I'm not creating, but what I've found  was that in my quiet time, in my seclusion time, in the time that I realized in my own submergence that it was actually the most creative time of my life. Um, a time that I understand and see and hear from a pure source, it's like, it's like a Caterpillar growing, right?

I needed to have my own cocoon. I don't take pictures, but in the time that I'm not producing is actually the most creative time for me because I'm growing, I'm learning, I'm seeing, and it made, it may look like nothing is happening, but I am a Caterpillar turning into a butterfly.

Matt: [00:36:49] And I get it. I get it as a programmer.

Um, It's the time away from the keyboard. That can be twice as important. You know, they always talk about when you're going to [00:37:00] create something you need to take, do you need to stop before you do and really plan out what it is you're going to do. And that's from a very kind of scientific mindset, but that's how it's done.

And it turns out that actually makes it faster, makes it better when all is said and done. And that's been proven,

Fawn: [00:37:18] there are so many pictures that were just meant for me to see that I didn't snap, but it was the universe showing me something. It was just meant for me. And I had to realize that, not let that get in the way of, Oh my God, it's horrible. I didn't take this picture. If that makes any sense. I feel like KJ wanted to step in and I totally bulldozed over the conversation.

Matt: [00:37:43] Me too.

 KJ: [00:37:44] There were so many responses. I had to a number of things. And so I'm trying to organize,

Fawn and Matt: [00:37:51] um,

 KJ: [00:37:52] I want to recall something that needs said, which I think was really important, which is the idea [00:38:00] and the understanding that we actually have intention behind how we choose to reemerge and how we choose to respond  to the darkness,  to the hibernation.

Um, he had said something along the lines of, I choose to show up in this way now from what I've witnessed and what I've observed over the last year, year plus. And when I knew that we were going to talk a little bit about re-emergence today and, uh, Renaissance, I immediately went to, my studies in psychology in which there's a gentleman, a neurologist, actually, his name is Victor Frankl.

Folks may have heard about him.  He wrote this incredible book I have here in front of me. It's called "Man's Search for Meaning". Yeah. And he was for three years in, in, um, Nazi [00:39:00] internment camps. So you want to talk about darkness. You want to talk about the very worst of human nature and more than human nature, just nature in general and the atrocities that he saw, his entire family perished, including sisters, parents, brothers, his pregnant wife over this time period, but he survived and he actually lived to be about 92 years old. Um, he actually passed fairly recently in the late nineties, but before he passed away, he wrote something like 30, 35 books all about what he discovered was the way that we emerge and the way that we could survive.

And it literally is about choosing as Nii had said, choosing on how to cope with the trauma, the new event that impacted him impacts us. [00:40:00] And so we all collectively went through a traumatic event. Um, and continue to move through the traumatic events. And so then I wanted to loop back into what Fawn was just saying, which is like, this has been occurring for millions of years, um, periods of darkness, wars, violence, and yet we still continue to emerge from it.

So there are definitely cycles. There are definitely seasons. And what I found 2020 and into 2021 really meant for me was it was like a truth serum. Number one, I feel like it stripped down everything and suddenly, suddenly, I felt like priorities were changed. We had to relearn language. I was laughing when, when Matt, you said I can't read  through masks. No, no one can, we're not used to that. But there was an experience that I had when I did go to the grocery store fairly recently. [00:41:00] And, um, there were several of us in line. All of us masked up and someone started to narrate what was happening because we were all sort of laughing over something.

We were watching a kid like move through the toys or something like that. And we were all laughing, but then someone said, I know you can't see me, but I'm smiling. You know, like we had to relay language and reconfigure how we'll respond because some of the senses now have been dulled. You know, if just how it is, if we lose our eyesight, the other census suddenly becomes so much more.

Right. Focused and vibrant, right? Yeah. And so I feel like what 2020 and into 2021 has done is that it has now given everybody an opportunity to return to this is going to sound strange, to return to their senses, return to their roots, return to language. And then as Dr. Victor Frankel says, um, [00:42:00] let's find meaning let's find purpose and intentionality around this.

What did I learn from this? How am I going to choose to show up, despite having  all of this occur. So I just kind of went off on a, on a tangent, but I just was, I'm responding to everything that's been said so far. And,  just as important, if not more is the hibernation period and the replenishment period, there is no way we can continue to show up,

heal, present, produce, if we haven't had a moment to replenish and just rest, because I think what happened was that everyone has been running, running, running hadn't hadn't remembered how to communicate with people. Hadn't remembered what was important, uh, what relationships were important, what priorities were until it was taken away from them until we were forced to pause.

And I see this time, I see the pandemic as this one big learning [00:43:00] opportunity, but also as a chance to replenish cocoon, re-emerge changed.

Fawn: [00:43:08] KJ. How do you do that? You just took everything we talked about in an hour. And  completely reiterated everything in a more beautiful way with more beautiful words.

How in the world do you do that? Like, I can't remember five seconds ago.

KJ: [00:43:23] I do  take notes? I took notes, but I wrote down when I was having a response to something that one of you had said, and I was like, that's right. That's right. Like I said, Matt reminded me. Oh yeah, no, we can't read through masks. And, and, um, and Katie and saying, and, and having such a sensitive reaction to, can we please hug, when did it become abnormal or when did it become dangerous to have, yeah.

And, and the response to, Oh my gosh. Let's hug because I think hugging and connecting is more important than, than a [00:44:00] pandemic.

I get that. Yeah.

Fawn: [00:44:02] And that could probably boost your immune system in that moment. Yeah. Wow. I don't even know where to go from here. I mean, this is like a perfect, yeah. Mike drop KJ.

You are amazing. You know what we should do? Like it's funny because last episode I said, okay, that's perfect. So therefore the next show should be about reemergence. I think we should have a show on KJ teaching us how to listen and how to take notes on each other's behaviors and like take notes on what is happening to be able to, uh, digest everything in life.

Like it's really remarkable how you do that and I can see why you do what you do, KJ. I mean,

KJ: [00:44:49] you're very kind,

Fawn: [00:44:50] no, this is the truth. It's mind blowing to me. Seriously. I am a goldfish. I'm like, what I forget is it

Matt: [00:44:57] the gold fish has a memory of about 10 [00:45:00] seconds, but one thing I want to say. New sort of new when we do reemerge, it is an opportunity for us to reinvent.

It's an opportunity for us to take a look, a good, hard look at how we were acting before and make decisions as far as is that how I want to be going forward. And everybody's had that big, ugly pause button  hit, and everybody is going to be socially awkward and everybody's going to be, you know, uncomfortable looking at strangers faces and everybody's going to be, I mean, it's going to be a random, strange, beautiful, uncomfortable world.

And we have the opportunity to walk into that world ignorant and figure out where our place is and choose perhaps to do things differently.

Fawn: [00:45:56] Matt  made a Mike drop gesture, but like also [00:46:00] a quick question, Matt, you were saying, you were talking about how we forget the fifth shower, right? We remember the first shower. How do we, you guys, any, anyone have any advice on how we can stay in awe of every moment? Because things can get back to normal all of a sudden, and we forgot what it's like to have the feeling of water to have the gratefulness of electricity, or, you know, having a grateful attitude towards things that come along instead of disregarding them.

Matt: [00:46:39] Well, you're, you're almost answering your own question, right? Word being in the moment, being grateful, we need to, we need to hold on to our gratitude. The trick is, is we need to hold on to like the good and not hold on to: I was held up for a year in my home, you know, and that's really, the tricky part is being thankful for where we are now,

[00:47:00] Fawn: [00:47:00] but here's the thing.

We need a ritual to remind us to be, to do that. We need a ritual. Maybe that's where the prayer comes in, how people gather around the table. And they S they say, thank you. We need to have rituals. Like, I think we should come up with them right now. Not necessarily at this second on this particular episode, maybe that's another episode.

Let's create rituals and in ways that we can, we're forced to, in a way, remember to stop and be thankful, stop and say, thank you. Stop and realize I am taking a shower. There is water hitting my skin.

KJ: [00:47:39] That's exactly it. I was going to say you, you did answer your own question, my love. It's so simple too.

Not that that I'm saying it's easy and, but it's simple when we actually give gratitude for the very thing that is occurring in the moment. So if the water is falling onto my hand, [00:48:00] thank you water. Literally saying it out loud. I am so grateful that I have water on my hand and then touch it. We all talked about how important human touches touch that part of your body that is being, uh, that is experiencing, acknowledging thank you to my hands today for holding these heavy books for being able to write, write down notes, take notes today. So it's almost like boiling it back again, like I've said to our senses, just naming it out loud makes a whole bunch of space. And so I was gonna suggest what we could do maybe moving forward or as we can end today's show, we could speak to one thing that we were we're grateful for from this conversation.

And then maybe when we start the next show, we could say something like something that I'm hoping my intention in this next hour or so to talk about [00:49:00] or connect about will be this. So it's again, that's inserting the pause and it's inserting an opportunity for gratitude and acknowledgement.

Fawn: [00:49:10] I'm grateful to, um, this is going to sound terrible.

I am grateful to being witness to Katie's tears during our conversation. Because as soon as she started tearing up, my chest started to have all kinds of sensations. And I realized I'm not alone in this feeling because I tried to immediately push it away because, you know, once again, I'm embarrassed about the state of the world and having to constantly apologize to our children, that they're having to witness all these things.

Um, and then I think I'm the only one feeling this way and I'm knowing, I know I'm not, but, and witnessing Katy's [00:50:00] tears, I'm grateful that I saw her tears, that I know that this is not normal, that Katy's tears are of compassion and of the interconnectedness that I always talk about that here it is.

It is real, so I'm grateful. I don't know if that makes any sense, but that's what I'm grateful for.

Nii: [00:50:26] Um,

can I say something in

the car now? I just wanted to say that I, I, um, agree with that wholeheartedly. I'd like to say that I'm grateful for, um, realizing that at least for me, um, growing up with very little amount of money, um, and realizing that, you know, education was the key for me, it was a, you know, the pursuit of something became success and trying to get money, became the [00:51:00] object.

And I realized, and I'm very grateful for realizing before I ended up divorced or estranged from these two, that it really isn't about that.  It really is about spending time and being present. And I think the big thing that I'm really grateful about is just being in the moment and enjoying life and realizing that my greatest asset really is time.

That's it? And that's what I, sorry about that. No, we have to wait.

Yeah, that's a train.

Fawn: [00:51:35] Yeah. We have to acknowledge the train. We have to acknowledge the train. That's right. That's

KJ: [00:51:39] the train.

Nii: [00:51:40] But just those little things are very, very, very important to me. And that's the most valuable asset is the time that I have with these two back here I'm to have with my wife, the time that I'm spending with you guys and you know, me shifting from me shifting from, and I hope you guys all look it at it.

Me shifting from being in a house to being in a car [00:52:00] is not that I'm not taking this seriously, but it's like. This is what's going on. And I can feel like, try to do both at the same time. I'm trying to maximize time as much as possible. So that's my gratitude right there.

Fawn: [00:52:12] It's my gratitude too. It's my gratitude, too, that we are able to be a part of you and, and your family.

And this is life. I don't like it. When people have that, that veneer of like, this is my perfect life, and I'm going to hide this away from you. I'm going to hide this aspect from this person. And I'm editing my life in response. Like I have a friend who totally edits her life. Like her kids don't know anything about our friendship or her kids will only know certain things about her life.

She edits. And I'm so grateful that Nii is including us in his day and his very busy day. And I'm sorry, I used the word, the [00:53:00] word busy that I schooled people for using what I'm saying is it's, it's a, it's an action packed, it's a wonderfully filled day and I'm so grateful that there's no editing that we are part of that. I, I want to hear about the train, the kids are screaming about, you know, so thank you Nii.

 Matt: [00:53:21] I just pointed to Matt, it's just like, there's such a dichotomy. It's like, I'm looking, I'm, I'm happy about this, but then there's a sad thing. And I'm trying so hard to say, I want to come up with the example that says, I'm happy about this, because this is happy and I'm having a hard time with it right now.

Fawn: [00:53:38] So I don't understand.

KJ: [00:53:41] I think I'd understand.

Fawn: [00:53:43] You do,?

Matt: [00:53:43] Of course.

Fawn: [00:53:43] Can someone explain it to me? Translate that?

KJ: [00:53:48] No, no, I just, there's something, maybe this is a part of it all is to, to is returning to what it might be to not be edited and to hold [00:54:00] both. You can be happy and joyful about something, but at the same time, how do I reconcile the fact that there is still a lot of, a lot of sadness, a lot of darkness too.

And so it would seem almost, I don't know. I don't want to prescribe that. Um, but it would seem almost it's difficult to reconcile and say, I'm happy about the sadness or how do I turn that around to be like what I've learned for and what I'm grateful from. The sadness could be, um, maybe, and maybe it doesn't have to be at this huge glorious label, but it could just be I'm, I'm happy that I understand that there are both

Matt: [00:54:45] maybe

Fawn: [00:54:46] what was it you were feeling, honey, are you feeling sad?

Matt: [00:54:49] It's just, you know, we celebrate loss. It's just how it almost feels to me. And I want to be happy because, [00:55:00] because of something happy, I don't want to be happy because I can now do something that I wasn't able to do before, because that's kind of sad. Right. And, um, and I'm just having a hard time with it.

And maybe that's part of the human condition. Like if I was. Just happy because I'm happy, then I would feel guilty or I would feel silly or I would feel small, but I don't want to feel that way. I want to feel mighty and powerful and happy. And I'm just working

on that.

Fawn: [00:55:24] Right. Totally get what you're saying.

Like Matt always has a way of, um, and it's really interesting to be around because he grieves, he grieved graduating sixth grade. Was it sixth grade? You always talk about, you were grieving graduating. Yeah. Because you were leaving something behind and I think that's true. We don't have ceremony for things we go through.

We don't have, well, we have, because we don't want to tell themselves celebration cause

Matt: [00:55:53] we don't want to have a solemn song celebration. There's

Fawn: [00:55:56] no one wants to live in that space. But if we ignore it, [00:56:00] we live in that space, uh, with an underlying current throughout all of our lives because we never acknowledged or paid respect to the hardship.

KJ: [00:56:12] I think it's important to recognize both or more, but I think it's, I think it's helpful that we can move to a place of remembrance in the grieving process with love, with hope, but we also need to touch on and sit with the pain that's also associated with it. And that's where a lot of us struggle. It doesn't feel good to be in pain.

It doesn't feel good to be uncomfortable.

Matt: [00:56:44] Right. It doesn't feel good to be sad. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's just, there's a time for all things under the earth.

Fawn: [00:56:52] One of my favorite things is to cry myself to sleep. I feel like it's

Matt: [00:56:58] no, no, no, no, no, no folks she's [00:57:00] married to me. You can't have her.

Fawn: [00:57:04] Yeah. Well, but do you know what I mean? I need to. It's it's a, it's a refreshing rain that washes everything away. Yeah. Are you saying that I'm not a desirable?

Matt: [00:57:17] I'm saying, I'm saying that it must be me. Who's making that.

everyone: [00:57:21] No, no, no, no.

Fawn: [00:57:25] It's, it's all the things I pick up on as a sensitive person. No, but as an outsider, I may choose to see things that way.

Oh, that like yesterday I was talking to Beth and KJ. We have one of our get-togethers and I started crying because of fireworks and parades. And what else were we talking about? KJ?

KJ: [00:57:46] Balloons,

Fawn: [00:57:47] balloons. And I started weeping. I'm like, guys, I don't know if I can live in a world with the fireworks and the balloons because nobody understands why I'm so upset.

Like why that makes [00:58:00] me so sad. Why the fireworks make me sad, you know? But I felt, I felt so, uh, weird. Having a cry, but it felt good, but I was thinking, Oh my God, I, I probably look insane.

KJ: [00:58:15] It's the acknowledgement of it. I think that also helps the release. I I'm grateful for these conversations. I'm so grateful that we have this opportunity to speak with open and human, um, souls here.

And yeah, like we said, it's not always the most comfortable topic. Um, but I'm so grateful that we're at least making space for it. So thank you.

Katy: [00:58:52] Well first on re-emergence, I just want to say one thing really quickly that I've been thinking about with the pandemic and everything. [00:59:00] Um, what needs to be re-emerged in the future is education on lifestyle and nutrition. It just broke my heart to see all these people, so sick in the hospital, because they were very, very unhealthy and their immune systems were so devastatingly low.

And there's, there's a few things that so simple. If people don't want to change their diet, I can understand because it's a hard, scary thing to do, but they could at least do a certain things. Um, like vitamin D vitamin D is the cheapest vitamin out there. And they have done studies where they saw that people who died or were dying, had the lowest levels of vitamin DS.

The people that had COVID that had higher levels of vitamin D were sick, but they didn't die. Um, [01:00:00] so people just need to come in and get 180 bottle or 180 count of vitamin D for $5. And it could dramatically change their chances of getting through the COVID. So there's simple things like that. Um, we need to have education in schools about nutrition and it really needs to be done. Because there's the food industry out there is just killing everybody. So that's what frustrates me because I know it does not have to be that way and it's not that hard. And that's my passion because that's what I do in life. And. What I'm grateful for is also for me to have this passion to learn more every day so I can pass it on to other people and help other people with maybe just one little thing.

People go, Oh, I can't do it. It's too hard. I go, well, just try one thing, just, you know, and [01:01:00] then do maybe next week, do another thing, like try some kind of vegetable you've never, ever had before in your life. And I still do try to do that myself and, and um, that way, you know, it you're like, Oh my God, this is not bad.

This is pretty good. And so you make little changes or let's get rid of this bad thing that I'm eating, and then you might feel a little bit better. So it's taking the baby steps and trying to learn something and, you know, you might feel a little bit better. So, so those are my two emergence and gratitude together because there's so much that can be done still. I mean, people are still getting sick. The variants are still going on. I know people are getting the vaccines, but that's not the be-all and end-all or end all be all. However you say it. Um, we still need to take care of ourselves, so. Okay.

[01:02:00] Fawn: [01:01:59] Thank you. Thank you so much, Katie. Oh, so good.

Katy: [01:02:04] It's kind of my rant.

Fawn: [01:02:05] I love it. It's funny how you guys were saying rants, but this is like pivotal, beautiful conversation.

Katy: [01:02:12] This is what passion. I just feel it's so strongly that I want to ...not hard. It's not hard. It's not, you can do it.

Fawn: [01:02:22] Yes! The tiniest thing creates the most amazing, beautiful feeling, right?

Whether it's a one strawberry or one little blueberry, it does make a difference.  Well I'm actually excited about heading out. Eventually I even bought myself a dress that I wore inside our apartment and it made a huge difference in my outlook on life. A little $7 dress that I got on sale.

That's it guys. I mean, is there any thing anyone else wants to say to wrap this up [01:03:00] with? I want to thank everybody. Nii thank you so much. My God, you've gone through three different locations while we've been talking. Yeah.

Matt: [01:03:10] And that's real life.

Fawn: [01:03:12] That is life. That is real life. Thank you Nii thank you, Katie.

Thank you, KJ. Thank you, Matt!.

Matt: [01:03:19] Thank you, Fawn!

Fawn: [01:03:21] It always weirds me out when you call me by my first name. Stop it. Um, okay. We shall see everyone in a few days. Okay.  Thank you again, everyone's info is on our show notes and on our website tune. In next week. We'll see you soon. Bye everybody. Bye.