"Breaking the Silence: The Art of Friendship and Fearless Storytelling"

TRANSCRIPT [00:00:00] FAWN: Hello, everybody. We're back. Hello. How are you? Hello. Hi. Oh my goodness. Okay, so if you all sense that my, my energy may be low, I apologize, but not only do I still have insomnia, but I do fall asleep on the couch for a little bit. Last night I fell asleep for just a second. I feel like just, I don't know, maybe I was at for maybe 20 minutes, but then all of a sudden I woke up and, sat up immediately and my eye went to a portion of the living room, like where, like this area of the rug and a mouse was staring back at me. [00:00:42] FAWN: And so there's this been, this one tiny field mouth that's been in our living room. We've been trying to catch it for a week now with no luck. This thing is fast and it's like a shadow, it's like a dark shadow. So you think you're seeing something, but you're, you're like, oh, it's probably my imagination. [00:00:59] FAWN: And now we know better, right? So if we think we see like a shadowy, you figure like in the corner of our eye and there's nothing, there, no chances that are, it was that field mouse. Anyway, so, I sat there and all I said was. Oh man. And we're, so, I'm staring, I'm having a showdown with a mouse, this time it was just sitting there staring back at me, each one of us probably thinking, what's the next move? [00:01:25] FAWN: Like, who's gonna make the first move? Right. And so our. Our daughter came in, she's like, what happened, mom? I'm like, and I just was staring, and so she saw immediately what I was staring at. She's like, oh, I see it. It's so cute. I'm like, yeah, it's cute, but let's get it. Get it outta here. Let's get it outta the house. [00:01:48] FAWN: So we spent, I don't know, two hours chasing this thing all over. The first part of the house, the first story, I mean, chasing it, I almost caught it too. I almost got it. And then we just gave up. So I told our kid to go to bed and she did, and then I just went to work. At my desk praying the mouse wouldn't come near me. [00:02:14] FAWN: And the funny thing is when we saw it the second time, like we, we gave up after the first hour. Mm-hmm. And then it showed up again and it was at the front door. It was like, it was like telling us it wants to leave. So I was trying to open, I was trying to open the, and guide the mouse out. Right. But it was so freaked out. [00:02:32] FAWN: And, and then I was spraying, mint oil. In a, in a spray bottle everywhere there was mint everywhere. Our eyes were burning. Anyway we didn't catch it. It's still somewhere around and, I'm really tired. I'm sorry guys. I'm so tired. [00:02:49] MATT: The joys of living in the forest folks. [00:02:51] FAWN: The thing is, when I did finally fall back asleep, I kept dreaming of catching mice and I would catch one, and then another one would show up that was bigger. [00:03:00] FAWN: And it kept happening over and over again. And the last one I woke up to was, the mouse was like the size of a rabbit that I was trying to catch. I'm tired. I don't know what to do, guys. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. And we made a commitment no matter what, we will always be here. Yay. Yay. Here we are. Here we are. [00:03:24] FAWN: So thank you for listening. Today's message or today's talk is actually the art of the talk. The art of talking. And it goes back to the idea of the village, which I call the Lost Village. Much like I feel like our society for a little bit has forgotten the art of friendship. Our culture, [00:03:45] FAWN: certain cultures definitely have lost the art of friendship, and we feel isolated and we feel alone. And it's actually not true. We are not alone, but that's how we feel. Why are you scrunching your face? Because my [00:04:00] MATT: stomach keeps making noises. [00:04:01] FAWN: It's your turn now. I didn't hear it. I didn't hear it. Okay, good. [00:04:04] FAWN: I'm glad. What's wrong with you? Are you [00:04:05] MATT: hungry? I am. My stomach is just making noises. Do you need to go to the bathroom? Nope. Innocent on that front? No. See. Okay. So this morning, cuz of course I'm oblivious, I fall asleep at God awful early every night and I can sleep through anything. Yay. For me, [00:04:21] FAWN: I mean, from the beginning we had kids, the kids were, you know, the babies were yelling and crying. [00:04:27] FAWN: Nope. Matt's sound asleep. I have been awake for the last, I don't know how many years, guys. I'm, I have not got eight hours of sleep ever. So I [00:04:40] MATT: got up super early this morning. I went for a bike ride. I, I hung out with some folks and I came home. Ugh, uh, anyway. [00:04:51] FAWN: Anyway, sorry. The Lost Village. The Lost Village, and then going back to having kids, you know, everyone was like, oh, it takes a village to raise a child. [00:04:59] FAWN: And that would make me so angry because I was thinking, where's the village? Right. Nobody around me. Right. Nobody helping me, you know? Anyway, that's what that was. Initially, we had already begun thinking about the art of Friendship and transforming society. Like we felt like the Art of Friendship was missing, especially where we lived, right In that area. [00:05:22] FAWN: Near Seattle and we talked about how it had developed a nickname the Deep Freeze, the Seattle Freeze, the Seattle Freeze. It's how people were so cold to you, like not into developing any friendships or anything. If you nodded at someone that was like a relationship, like they thought we were friends, if, if you just had like a mutual nod, like hello. [00:05:50] FAWN: I was like, wow. And, and yet that was the extent of the friendship. [00:05:54] MATT: And yet people could be so disrespectful. Like we had people walking through our property. Uh, one, uh, there was a woman who lived close to us, who walked through someone else's property and got all bent outta shape when she got yelled at. [00:06:07] FAWN: She's like, I never, no one's ever treated me like that. I'm like, It must be good to be white walking through [00:06:14] MATT: somebody's property for you. Just [00:06:15] FAWN: sing like she felt like it was her right to do that. And she was so bent out of shape when someone said, what are you doing? This is my land. Right? Like, this is my backyard. [00:06:26] FAWN: Right. Like, what are you doing? Showing up with a bunch of kids and people, you know, like who are you? You know, the first time, actually that person did it to me, I didn't know that I was walking on, private property. Mm-hmm. I was holding L when she was a baby in Baby Bjorn. I'm like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. [00:06:44] FAWN: I had no idea. I'm new to this area. I'm also in a fog. I just had a baby. Forgive me. Right. And we became friends because I was like, oh, for real. I'm sorry. Right. You know, like I showed my, um, My vulnerability and I also showed like, Hey, I'm so, you know, like I respect you. Of course this is your land. I didn't know and I hear you. [00:07:10] FAWN: Yeah, I, exactly. So we became friends, but the same lady who yelled at me, but we became friends. The same lady yelled at this other neighbor mm-hmm. Who moved in like way after we did. And she was like, I'll never, I'll never be treated like that. I'm like, well, Did you say, I'm sorry, or she's like, no, why should I [00:07:31] MATT: anyway? [00:07:32] MATT: No, why should [00:07:33] FAWN: I? Ouch. She was one of the reasons we moved. Also, like this ignorance, this like this prevailing, what's the word we always use? Uh, um, entitled, thank you. How come? I can never remember that word entitled. Entitlement. Anyway. This is kind of veering us away from what we wanted to talk about today, but not really because we're talking about the village, what has the village become? [00:08:00] FAWN: I know many of you listen to us are from other countries. How is it in your village and village could be a city. I'm just talking about the vibe in your neighborhood. Do you feel supported by other people? Do you feel like you are actually true friends that you share things that you feel supported and you feel loved and seen, respected. [00:08:28] FAWN: Do you hang out together? Do you share things like do you share tomatoes or do you share tea? Do you share stories? Not gossip, but you know, like short stories to help each other, you know? The village, right? Do [00:08:43] MATT: you go for walks with, with your [00:08:45] FAWN: neighbors? Do you, do you look out for one another? Like if someone needs help, someone's not feeling well, they're under the weather, or they're sad, are you there for them or are they there for you? [00:08:56] FAWN: Do you have someone around anyway? Do you have people around like that actually care, care for you? Care about you? Anyway, so here's the thing. Even like, let's just put that thought aside. That's what started us on this whole friendship thing with our matchmaking service, which led into other things, which eventually led to this podcast. [00:09:20] FAWN: But one of the things that came up this week was talking and talking about our feelings, talking about our experiences. The more I talk to other women, I find that we all have the same traumas and no one wants to talk about it because it's painful or, well, the, we're gonna get into that later. [00:09:40] FAWN: Like, why we don't talk about certain things, why we don't talk, period, why we don't expose what we're going through; why we don't share what we've been through. We'll get into the reasons why that is. We have our theories, but also there's a friend of mine, Davina and I was hanging out with Davina. [00:10:00] FAWN: We met almost a year ago, and I'm so glad we did. Our entire family has been so thankful for meeting these people. They're amazing and lovely and. Our kids are so happy together. Like Right. Their kids are kids [00:10:15] MATT: and they're talking all the time too. [00:10:18] FAWN: Really interesting, really interesting stories. Really talented. [00:10:23] FAWN: Like their voice is beautiful, like singing. They're musicians, they're martial art, like everything. They're just well-rounded people anyway, but I noticed that everything seemed to be like controlled. And I thought, I was starting to think to myself every time we got together, I started to think, well, maybe I should like hone in my, my, my mindness. [00:10:48] MATT: Your [00:10:49] MATT: FAWNNESS? [00:10:50] FAWN: Oh my God. Exactly. Maybe I should hone it in like, am I too much for this person? So, you know, because I just felt like they had it pulled together and they had, I don't know how to describe it. Matt, can you describe it? Like what I was feeling? [00:11:04] MATT: It's like there's a speed bump up. And like, like when you're hanging out with them, you can feel like maybe there's a couple subjects that they don't want to veer into and they steer conversations and, and there can feel like there's a little hesitation when you invite them over just a speed bump, not a wall, more like a [00:11:27] FAWN: curb. [00:11:28] FAWN: And I started to take this personally. That's why I was like, maybe I should control my FAWNNESS you know, like maybe I should tone it down, tone it down, tone it down. And I tried, I tried to tone it down and then I started to think, okay, let me just pretend it's not me and let me just allow for them to just be and see what happens, right? [00:11:50] FAWN: And not just sit there and stare at them when they're talking, but feel. Like, do you ever play ball with someone or, or, or that game where I say to you, what, what color am I thinking of? Or what word am I thinking of? Or what am I thinking? And see, try to tune in, like in a telepathic way to see what is on your mind. [00:12:15] FAWN: Do you ever play those games? I do. I, I did that when I was a kid all the time. But you know, those games are like, if you're even playing catch, there's a certain. Momentum you can achieve by throwing the ball, but also energetically letting you know I'm throwing the ball to you in a certain way for you to catch it. [00:12:38] FAWN: It's very focused. Mm-hmm. It's very loving and it's focused and It's meant for you to catch gently, I don't know how to explain it. Do you know what I'm talking about, Matt? I do. I do. Can you explain it a little bit better? [00:12:49] MATT: You, you pass into this kind of state where you're not like, it's not like you're one body, but it's like you can feel what the other person is gonna do and the other person can feel what you're doing. [00:13:00] MATT: And in Aikido we would talk about something called sticky ki, where you could Keep yourself connected with someone as they were [00:13:07] FAWN: moving. Mm-hmm. Like you knew where the next movement was going [00:13:12] MATT: on, but sometimes it's on like a super subconscious level, so you're just Yes, totally. You're just kind of turning off that part of your brain that wants to control. [00:13:20] FAWN: Mm-hmm. It's purely intuitive and you're just, you're just following Right. You, you're going with your emotions. You're operating from a non, mental state. You're operating from an emotional state, a, pure connection. It works. Anyway, so I had that, I decided to have that as my vibe when every time we saw Davina. [00:13:44] FAWN: Okay? Mm-hmm. and that's it. I would just have that openness, like, Hey, I would pretend that even though I was sitting normally, that I was sitting with my arm stretched out to her, if that makes any sense. Even though my arms were down or I was holding a book or something in my hand or a pencil, I would pretend that my shoulders were open. [00:14:05] FAWN: Mm-hmm. My chest was open, my arms were open to her. Right. And I noticed something happening, like over the course of every time we started to see each other, she, she started to get teary-eyed when she spoke about some things and then she would hone it in. I'm like, huh, that was interesting. At first, I'm like, well, she could have had an allergy or something for a second. [00:14:25] FAWN: Right? I didn't try to think about it too much. I just thought, She may be opening up to me mm-hmm. More than she has in the past. Right. And that's another thing, like certain friends, like, uh, a few weeks ago I talked about, went out to dinner and I opened up about something and I was there with Sarah, who's actually a coach, amazing therapist. [00:14:47] FAWN: And so she was there. And after, after the dinner, like the next day, she's like, Fawn, isn't it interesting that you totally opened up in front of these women and then they started to get teary and they started to, express things that they normally probably would not have. [00:15:02] FAWN: But it's interesting, right? Because that's totally what happened. It's interesting because that was the last time we all got together with those people. Oh dear. Like, I still get together with Sarah. Mm-hmm. But I'm like, something happened. They got spooked. Right, so that's another thing we're gonna talk about today. [00:15:19] FAWN: Like why is it that people suddenly disappear when they can't handle a conversation, they can't handle their emotions, something they didn't want to pop up. It came up. There are so many different reasons why that happens, and we need to be aware of that in friendship so we can be better friends and we can also be more gentle with ourselves and not take things so personally. [00:15:41] FAWN: Everyone's fighting their own battles, and they're hard, especially these days because we're all going through so many changes. Society's going through major, major changes. Culture is shifting everywhere, so there's a lot. There's a lot to feel. So this week after. I heard your stomach that, [00:16:02] MATT: dang, that was me. [00:16:05] FAWN: So after a few weeks of this mm-hmm. I, so I'm sitting across from Davina and she starts talking and she starts almost crying and she held it back again. And then she started to tell me about certain things that have happened. In her life, in the past. Mm-hmm. Like one of them we talked about was giving birth and the trauma of almost losing the baby. [00:16:27] FAWN: And, and while she was talking, I thought I was over my trauma. Right. With Elle being born the way she was. Mm-hmm. You know, and we both almost died and then, one thing after another. The next few years happened, you almost died. And we've been through so much hardship, so much trauma that while Davina was talking, I found myself not being able to look at her. [00:16:52] FAWN: And I tried to look out the window and I was saying to myself at the same time, I'm listening to her. Mm-hmm. But I was thinking, oh my goodness, I think I'm about to have a panic attack. I thought I was okay. Right. I thought, I thought all this was cleared for me, right? I thought I cleared all these emotions I was feeling. [00:17:13] FAWN: Mm-hmm. I thought I was okay, but I'm obviously reacting. I'm like, oh wow. This is how other people feel. This is why people don't communicate with one another. This is why people don't talk to each other. This is why people don't wanna get involved because they feel like they're gonna catch whatever it is the other person is feeling. [00:17:31] FAWN: Am I bringing this into my circle again? Am I bringing this up, up again? And then there's this guilt you feel over expressing your emotions to someone. Like, you know, like, don't, don't take offense, Matt, but like, while we were talking while she finished her story, I was like, I know what you're talking about. [00:17:53] FAWN: I also went through a similar situation and we were talking about giving birth. Mm-hmm. And the. And also by the way, in like the best hospitals in the United States, you always thought, oh, you were always told America has the best medicine, blah, blah, blah. We're the best. We're the best. Come to figure that come to realize that you know, we are not. [00:18:19] FAWN: Once what happened with us happened, I started to look into it and sure enough, especially people of color like me, Others, chances are high that you can die. That your baby can die, and they don't care. They're not into really helping you. The humanity is not there, and it was scary. So anyway, the, the whole point, that's another story. [00:18:47] FAWN: But the point is that Davina was talking and expressing sharing her story with me. And I felt honored. I felt honored that she felt comfortable, right. To talk to me about it, because I knew there was something, I knew there was something she was not saying. Mm-hmm. Trying to keep, you know, as they say, a stiff up her lip and like be positive all the time. [00:19:12] FAWN: And like, you know, easygoing. But I could tell she's been through stuff too. We all have, So while, while we bonded, we were both crying and, it wasn't just a baby thing. It's also being in a partnership like with you and with Davina's husband, there are certain things as a couple because you're both doing your best. [00:19:36] FAWN: You're both trying to maneuver life the best you can, right? And this goes with friendships. Everybody has their problems. Everybody has their battles and everybody's truly operating at their highest capacity. And when you're working together, of course, one partner is bound to do something that also a little bit devastates you a little bit, you know? [00:19:58] FAWN: Mm-hmm. So we were talking about that, and when we were done and we were crying and then we let it all out and we felt lighter. Right. We veered off a little bit and then we had a good laugh about something totally unrelated. Mm-hmm. We started laughing out loud and that felt so good. [00:20:16] FAWN: We felt so light. And I was thinking, this is what's missing. This is what we've been talking about for years, is one of the things that's missing in our culture now is these sharing of experiences. And there are reasons for it. You feel like you're gonna scare the person, and they're just going to leave, which they do. [00:20:37] FAWN: A lot of people freak out, they can't handle it, and they disappear from your lives. Another feeling is the feeling of judgment. Like, I'm gonna share something with this person and they're just gonna judge me. They're never gonna look at me the same again. They're just gonna hold me to this one aspect, and that's all they're gonna see when they see me. [00:20:59] FAWN: They're not gonna see me as a whole person. They're just gonna see me with this one event that happened to me. [00:21:05] MATT: Right. And whether they pity you or they, they treat you differently. It's, it's, it's uncomfortable. It doesn't matter how, but they're, they're choosing to see you in only one dimension. And that's hard. [00:21:17] FAWN: And also, another thing that stops people from doing this is when you explore these emotions you're basically cleaning a house. Have you noticed when you clean your environment that it looks messier than it did ever before? While you're in the process of cleaning, there's more chaos, right? Because you're lifting up the rug and there's lots of dust that has been there that you didn't even realize. You were just trying to move this couch over or move a chair or table over. But then you didn't realize, oh my goodness, there's all this dust that I didn't even know was there. So while you're cleaning it, it looks messy, much messier than it did in the beginning, and then everything gets, cleaned up and put back in place. [00:22:05] FAWN: However, in the process of cleaning i e and the process of accessing your emotions and sharing your stories, You can feel this weariness, this shakiness. You know, it's interesting how people say, let's shake it off. I think when people shake, when animals shake, A therapist described it to me once as animals shake, because it's your body's way of detoxing. [00:22:34] FAWN: It's like it's, you are rattling it out of you. Hmm. I don't know how to describe it, but hopefully that is understood. Does that make sense? It does. So when you shake a bottle to get something out of it. Mm-hmm. Right? So, [00:22:47] MATT: well, yeah, and also like sometimes you just shake to loosen your wrists or your hands or [00:22:51] FAWN: whatever. [00:22:52] FAWN: It's a detox. It's a legit thing. Like you're detoxing. Right. But what happens is you get tired, like after this conversation that was wonderful, by the way, with Davina. Mm-hmm. It was wonderful for many reasons. I'm so glad she opened up to me. I feel like our friendship went deeper Right. And got bigger. [00:23:10] FAWN: Right. More amazing than before. I also feel that I thought I was over What happened? But I was bawling, crying so hard. I'm like, wow, I guess there was more for me to clean. Right? I didn't realize. And that kind of stuff blocks you from living your happy life. It blocks you from pursuing the kind of life you want. [00:23:32] FAWN: So it's good that that happened, but I've been tired ever since. Like more tired. Mm-hmm. And it's the kind of tired where you go to the gym and you're just like, your muscles are worn out. You know, it's because you've been working them. Mm-hmm. It's that kind of tired, you know what I'm saying? So it's a good tired, it's a good tired, but you're still tired. [00:23:51] FAWN: Right. You know, you can't go about your normal activities. Your energy's just different for a little bit. So there's also that, that people I'm sure don't want, cuz it's, it gets in the way of all the things you have to do. If you know you're on track, you're like on this treadmill, you don't have time to feel like this. [00:24:09] FAWN: You know what I'm saying? It's true. I think that's one of the reasons why, it's one of the reasons why people don't talk and share their experiences, but once you do, you're actually free and you're, you, you will come out of it and you'll be way stronger. Faster. Better [00:24:26] MATT: Typically, you know, it's, it's particularly in friendship, there's this whole give and take and this process of discovery and uncovering. And this can take a long time and it depends on the person, how much they're willing to share. And people who share too much too soon scare you certainly, and people who never share scare you in a different way. [00:24:51] MATT: Between that and this whole now, I think just mindset of, if you are a celebrity or semi celebrity or internet celebrity who goes through something, it's almost like you report on it in order to raise your profile. But in the process of doing that, I think we just see kind of the end result. [00:25:13] MATT: It's like when we look at a sports star and we're like, oh, well, you know, obviously they can kick a ball for this amount of, for this distance, this straightness. It's just a God given talent and we don't understand all the work that has gone into it before that happens. And I think it's the same way when we see these kind of distilled out, um, Instagram posts or whatever about somebody who went through something traumatic. [00:25:42] MATT: You know, we don't see the work. And so it's almost like we feel like because we can't just be over something that we're lesser than, we're smaller than, we're not as strong as, and you know, , we talked about this a few weeks ago. You know, there's trauma, big tier little t, it doesn't matter. [00:26:09] MATT: It's still something you go through. It's still something you feel, and it's still something that is important to share and to express. And it's about finding those people who you can share and express to. And it's a dance, it's a careful thing. And that's why, a lot of the friends I have, I've had for a long time, and that's just because we've gone through this dance, you know? [00:26:34] MATT: And we finally gotten to a point where we do share these things. And we understand and it's not that it's a no judgment zone, cuz my Lord, it can be. But the judgment that we get is tempered by love and that makes all the difference. Because we know that, when they say something to us, the challenge is something we believe, [00:26:55] MATT: we know that they're not doing it from a position of, oh, I'm so much better than you are, or, oh, why can't you do it? You should be doing it this way. It's coming from a place of, mutual respect and, everybody goes through stuff welcome to life. And so [00:27:12] MATT: it's about really just coming to a place and finding those people who you can share with and, you know, I'm super stoked about you and Davina, , that you guys are moving in that direction. Cuz I could, it always felt like when I'd spoke with her that, there were things that were said but not said and hints given, but not hints told. [00:27:32] FAWN: And I respect that they needed time to make sure that we were able to handle, or we were the people that would lovingly hold them. Right. Right. And I, I get that. I mean, I'm more fast though. I'm like, I'll just let you know what's up and what I've been through. Right. Um, [00:27:51] MATT: yeah. And sometimes I worry you're too fast. [00:27:53] FAWN: But yeah, I'm like, I'm like a dog. I'm like a big golden retriever or whatever. Those dogs are like, they just jump on you and like love you immediately . Mm-hmm. But it's, it's too, it's too much for people and that's okay. Because I'm just like, you know what? I have things to do. This is who I am. [00:28:15] FAWN: If you can't handle it, I should know right away. Right? Because I don't, it's not like, I don't wanna sound harsh when I say this, but it's like, I have things to do. If you can't hang, then good riddance. You know what I'm saying? It's good for me to know that you can't handle me. You're gonna judge me, , I'd rather know right up front. [00:28:38] FAWN: Right. And sometimes it takes people to, I mean, sometimes they're just not in the space where they can, I'm not judging these other people. I'm just saying I have things to do and the people that are around me, I, need to know that they can handle. They can handle my Fawnness they can handle me because I don't wanna ratchet it down, ratchet it, what's the word? [00:29:00] FAWN: Ratchet it down. I don't wanna ho what's the other? Hold back. Tone it down. I don't wanna tone it down. I don't wanna tone it, but it's just, I also think that if I were to think of like why this has happened, why. And how did we reach this point in our culture that there is no village, that there is not a space where we can hold one another and hear each other's stories. [00:29:26] FAWN: One, there's no time. Two, I listed all the other things. There's the feeling like, oh my goodness, if I let this person know, they're gonna think I'm some freak, they're gonna leave. Or they can't handle it, they're gonna leave. They're gonna be judgmental, right? They're gonna treat me differently. [00:29:43] FAWN: They're not gonna see me as any other way other than this sad little mess that I'm in right now. Do you know what I'm saying? It's not absolutely. It's just, it's too much and also it's tiring. Mm-hmm. I'm like, they're gonna maybe misunderstand what I'm telling them. Right. You know? Oh my gosh. I remember years ago when I. [00:30:05] FAWN: I mean, in America too, there's a pill for everything. And I remember, like I was going through a breakup and someone would be like, Hey, what's going on? I'm like, oh my God, I'm so sad right now. And they would immediately say, you should be taking some medication. I'm like, whoa, what? Oh, okay. Bye. Thank you. I mean, I'm sure in some cases you people do need that. [00:30:30] FAWN: And I'm not saying don't do that. I'm not. Please, please. That's not what I'm saying. You know, if you need help, if you need things to help you, you get it. I'm just saying we're just so, I mean, if you just turn on the tv, every commercial is a drug commercial. It is absurd truth. I don't know how it is in other countries. [00:30:51] FAWN: I haven't traveled in a minute. I'm like, wow. It is, it's gotten worse over the, I mean, used to be half the commercials were just like about some disease and take this drug, but [00:31:05] MATT: the other half would be for law firms. So it all [00:31:06] FAWN: balance out and now it's all disease. It's all a drug for something, it's doom, gloom, everyone's sick. [00:31:15] FAWN: Take this drug. [00:31:17] MATT: Well, everybody wants an easy, quick answer. And because science has granted us, I suppose, with many simple, quick answers. [00:31:28] FAWN: That's another show. But I think that there's some sort of totalitarian way of our culture right now that is keeping us separate, that is keeping this illusion that we can't connect that we are not connected, that we can't talk to each other, or if we feel like maybe we should talk to each other, [00:31:53] FAWN: there's no time, there's no energy. It's just impossible it feels like. Or we feel like we can't. We just can't. So we don't. So we suffer by ourselves, and I think the best medicine is opening up and sharing stories and talking [00:32:10] MATT: and owning up to your vulnerabilities when you're feeling a little vulnerable and you know, it's an important thing to have the sense of yourself to be able to laugh at yourself. [00:32:21] MATT: So I'm on the bike trail today. And I'm waving I wave at everybody. Now I just put up my hand, hey. And some people say, good morning. Some people will ignore me, some people blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right? Life is good. I hit my little bell if I'm gonna pass you so you know I'm coming. Some people take offense to that, but whatever. [00:32:40] MATT: So there was a guy and he was off of his bike and he was looking at something and as I go by, I was like, Hey, is everything okay? He was embarrassed. He, it's, first of all, he pretended he didn't hear me, so I had to repeat myself as I'm zipping by. Right? And then he was like embarrassed, like, mm-hmm. He couldn't just say, nah, I'm cool. [00:33:08] MATT: You know? It, it, it's, it's one of those kinds of [00:33:10] FAWN: things, you know, that, that happens a lot. Remember we were on a bike ride as a family and that happened? Are you talking about that or are you talking about something that happened? No, this happened today. Remember a few weeks ago? Mm-hmm. We all went for a bike ride. [00:33:22] FAWN: Mm-hmm. Oh my goodness. And this one man, all of a sudden fell over on his bike and immediately his knuckles were bleeding. There was blood. So we, and we were really close to our house, so we, we all stopped and we ran over to him and I was looking for band-aids and he was also embarrassed. I think he was embarrassed, but he was harsh with us. [00:33:41] FAWN: He's like, leave me alone. I'm fine. Yeah. I'm like, whoa. Well, [00:33:46] MATT: he was, I'm not making any excuses for anybody, but he was, he had the right, he had the right bike, he had the right outfit, he had the right everything. He had spent a lot of money on his kit so, exactly. Anyway. Exactly, but, but that's just it. It's like, I think we go through life so afraid of being turned into an internet meme for everybody to laugh at us for the next 10 million years. [00:34:13] MATT: You [00:34:14] FAWN: think That's why I think that that's part of it. First of all, we weren't recording anything, but that's true. We were there to help. We were there to offer a bandaid. [00:34:22] MATT: But, but look at America's Funniest Home videos that's been on TV for how many years. [00:34:26] FAWN: Americans love watching people get hurt. [00:34:29] FAWN: They love people, falling. And it's like we watch in horror. We don't watch that show. But we watch in horror when we happen to come across it, it's like you're a deer in headlights. Like you can't stop looking at it. Right. When it's like somehow we're channel surfing and it comes on. Mm-hmm. We're like, oh my God, that person just landed on their head. [00:34:50] FAWN: They could have broken their neck. Right. That brain shook right there. Yep. Or that person I'm sure broke something. And people were like, ha ha ha, you win $10,000. What? No, that's terrible. [00:35:06] MATT: Well, this isn't exclusively American because it seems like people love to, you know, poke at the British monarchy. [00:35:14] FAWN: Well, I think the British and the United States are quite similar. [00:35:22] FAWN: They are, they are in some ways, I mean ways. That's why, that's why, you know, I mean if, if you think about Americans that are like, oh, I'm American. You know, like when they do, if they do, if, if they do get a passport and if they do travel outside of their country mm-hmm. They'll go to somewhere that's only strictly American speaking or English speaking, sorry. [00:35:47] FAWN: They'll go to. The uk, they'll go to maybe New Zealand or Australia. They're not gonna go to Morocco or Peru, you know what I'm saying? I feel you. So there's just, there's a certain aspect of kinship, I think. Mm-hmm. Although I do like the UK a lot. I do. I don't know. I don't know. I should be mad at them, but I'm not, I mean, I mean guys as a photographer, I'm sorry, but like, I traveled around the planet a few times. [00:36:17] FAWN: I swear there was a guillotine, or I know that's French, but there was like some torture device and it was from the English Empire. Like they, they were here too. I'm like, wow. They've been everywhere. Everywhere I go they, they impose some sort of like threatening threat. You better behave. Do you know what I mean? [00:36:37] FAWN: Mm-hmm. They colonized everything, is what I'm trying to say. So I should be mad, but I love the, [00:36:44] MATT: but anyways, we love to pounce, like the press loves to pounce because we love to read all about Ooh, yeah. These people who theoretically should have absolutely a hundred percent perfect lives, their lives aren't a hundred percent perfect, and that somehow or another makes things okay for us, shame on us. [00:37:03] MATT: Let [00:37:04] FAWN: people be happy. Amy, we're we're veering off topic. Oops, sorry. So we're talking about talking the art of the talk and so I was telling you about my experience and then you're like, that's interesting because the whole talking thing came up for me too this week. And I was like, and this is how Matt, first of all, Matt always says, I'm yelling when I'm totally standing somewhere minding my own business, not saying a word. [00:37:30] FAWN: I'm just quiet and he'll say, stop it. You're yelling cuz he can hear my thoughts sometimes. [00:37:40] FAWN: Anyway, I was standing in the kitchen chopping up some carrots and I suddenly remembered Josh. Right? But I couldn't remember his name. I'm like, have you reached out to your friend and you said, He reached out to me two weeks ago, and I haven't responded yet. I'm like, how did you know who I was talking about? [00:38:00] FAWN: First of all? [00:38:02] MATT: And actually as it turns out, he reached out to me two months ago. It's that bad, two [00:38:06] FAWN: months. And you did not reply. I did not reply. I'm like, you better set that straight. You better fix that. [00:38:12] MATT: So I, I've, I've had an interesting week folks. You know, I went, I actually hung, I, yeah, I had a virtual chat with Josh who's, you know, I should be thoroughly jealous of, but I'm not, and I'm not sure why. [00:38:24] MATT: Cuz he's, right now he, he was in Hawaii, went to Utah, he went, he's gonna go whitewater rafting down in the, down the Grand Canyon. [00:38:34] FAWN: Pretty awesome. And you said they downsized to a house that's like, that's bigger than ours. We're ha we're half of his desk. Yes. [00:38:43] MATT: We're half of his downsized. [00:38:45] FAWN: There's four people with two with, with homeschooling? [00:38:49] FAWN: Mm-hmm. And your business? My business in office. Oh my gosh. [00:38:52] MATT: And he's downsizing. So they have enough room for the grand grandkids who don't exist yet to come visit. Just, just him and his wife. Yes. Rock on. But anyways, But yeah, we had, we had, we had a, we had a, we had a time. We did. You talked for a long time. [00:39:10] MATT: We did. Sometimes we have good conversations, sometimes we have not. We have stilted to, it was a good conversation, which was great. But here's [00:39:16] FAWN: the thing. Here's the thing that, , I noted was, first of all, I took the kids, to the library. Mm-hmm. So we left at 1245. We come home around four. And you're still talking to Josh? [00:39:28] FAWN: Mm-hmm. All that time. How about Good for you cuz that's usually what I do. You know, we, [00:39:34] MATT: we, we had a lot to go through. I see. You know, Josh is another software guy, who I get along well with. Who, you know, I communicate with socially outside of work. Even the way we met was weird cause he interviewed me and I didn't take his job, but he offered it. [00:39:52] FAWN: But you said this guy was really cool. He said something, he said one sentence, and then you, you repeated that one sentence to me. I'm like, that's cool. Are you gonna keep in touch? And you said, yeah, I think I will. So you guys became friends, [00:40:05] MATT: which is interesting cuz usually when I tried to do something like that, I reach out to someone there. [00:40:10] MATT: Crickets. Cuz people are timid, Littlefield mouses or mice or something, I don't know. But Josh definitely not. So that was weird. I reached out to him and then I also, it's one of these things that, [00:40:23] FAWN: no, but tell our friends what you were talking, you were saying. We didn't talk about the past. We talked about what was new with us, and there's always something new. [00:40:34] FAWN: There's something always to be discussed Yes. In in your present moment, right? I feel like, you know, I get upset with people that just tell you the same story over and over again. I feel like I'm just going to lose my mind. I cannot partake in that. Right? Like telling me the same story, like I have never heard it before. [00:40:59] MATT: That's a nasty habit of, of what my family and I really have to work and struggle against it. That's for sure. Cuz I can be as guilty of that as anyone, but I don't constantly do it because, you know, knock on wood. Yeah, I, I generally have new things. I generally learn new things and I'm generally progressing through, but yeah, we just, we just talk about where we're at. [00:41:23] MATT: Uh, we talk. You know, we talked about, you know, work and moving and how he's just traveling from place to place and you know, his house will be ready for him in October and you know, his wife isn't working right now and won't have a chance until at least I was like, oh, well then not probably until March. [00:41:43] MATT: Oh, no, no, no. My brother's coming in in March. I was like, oh dear. So more like June, July, he's like, yep. But it was just fun. It was just a fun freewheeling conversation. He is very aware of who he is and I like to believe I'm really aware of who I am and so like, you know, we can say, we can say every, we can say almost anything to anything to one another and, and go through it. [00:42:08] MATT: And he, he's known a among a couple of my traumatic stories and you know, I know one or two of his, and you know, it's just, It just is what it is. We just kinda, you know, go through and have a nice conversation about it. [00:42:22] FAWN: Bottom line is no judgment, although I did judge people who say the same stories over and over again. [00:42:28] FAWN: I'm just saying, I'm just saying I don't have the capacity for that. Right, and just knowing what your capacity is when you go in. I knew when Davino was talking to me about the traumatic birth experience. Mm-hmm. As it was happening, as it as she was telling me the story and crying, I was realizing, oh my gosh, I don't have the capacity. [00:42:51] FAWN: So I had to figure out a way to fuel myself to have the capacity to hold that and to further the conversation along by adding to it right and creating a loving situation around it. Mm-hmm. So I remember I looked outside, it was raining buckets, like a sheet of water just coming down, right? Mm-hmm. And I was just looking at that and I kind of asked for help. [00:43:17] FAWN: I'm like, I, I want grace and beauty to come in. Please help. I kind of just said, please help. Mm-hmm. And then our conversation also got better, just like asking for help, even if it's out in the blue, like just, uh, Thinking the words Please help. Will help. Right. that's it. So what I'm saying, and I think what you're saying too, Matt, is let's try to be a little brave and figure out our space. [00:43:45] FAWN: Try to clean up ourselves so that we have room. Let's get rid of the old things that don't serve us anymore. So let's clean a house. And once again, it may appear way more chaotic when you do right, but it doesn't last long. Everything will settle down in its place again. But let's be open with our new formed capacity, to share our stories and allow people without judgment to share their stories and not hold that on them cuz it's something you're experiencing that you're going through. It doesn't define anyone, it is just sharing of experiences is all the talking is. Right. And I think that's key to the art of Friendship [00:44:29] MATT: it is key to the art of friendship and yeah, and don't take offense if you reach out to someone and they don't react in kind. Things just happen and you don't necessarily know any aspect of what people are going through or not going through. So don't take it personally. [00:44:50] FAWN: Think of it like you were dancing. [00:44:52] FAWN: Maybe you were at a club or something, and all of a sudden the person you're dancing with like leaves the dance floor. Don't take it personally like we just said, but also keep going with your own dance because you're not always going to be doing this one move. A different song comes on, and you move differently and the person may come back, you know? [00:45:16] FAWN: Right. They may come back with the flow when they're ready, right? Or they may not, it doesn't matter. Move along with your own beat and have fun and enjoy your life and strive for happiness. We're all going to move through all this trauma and there is a better. Time just approaching, especially when we're in it together, when we realize we are in it together, that we are here for each other, that we're not alone. [00:45:43] FAWN: All you have to do is look around and put your hands out and there's someone right there to hold your hand. It will happen. And if you don't find that, Email us, reach out to us always. We love you so, so much. It's gonna be okay. Love you, and we'll talk to you in a few days. Be well.