Episode Transcript
the who, what, when, where, why, And how of things, and how we can use these to communicate better with one another.
[00:00:00] FAWN: Emotions are really complicated. Huh? Hi everybody. Hello. Welcome back. So, for example, I think, I'm gonna say that for every emotion that we think we're having, there's actually 6 or 7 or 8 million other ones that are intertwined within that one label. 6 or
[00:00:18] 7 million?
[00:00:20] FAWN: 6, you could have, it's not just one emotion.
[00:00:23] Right. It could be one or two or three. Or six million other ones that we don't even know about that are, that are woven in there. I don't think it's, ever one thing.
[00:00:36] MATT: So
[00:00:36] FAWN: like fear, if you think about fear, what is fear really like? If it was just fear, we could get over something really quick because you're like, okay, I'm afraid of this.
[00:00:46] But I think that if you really break it down and if you have time to think about it. There's other things at play. For example, let's take anger. Matt was on the phone with someone. You talk to this person once a year, maybe, [00:01:00] yeah? I don't want to say who it is. It's a, it's a family member.
[00:01:03] MATT: Okay. Is it usually once a year?
[00:01:07] Something like, but that's not important.
[00:01:09] FAWN: Mm hmm. It is.
[00:01:11] MATT: Okay.
[00:01:12] FAWN: Because you would think I'd be okay with it, whatever, I'd be thinking like, oh, it's just once a year. But, I was Here it comes. Because we live in a small house, you can hear everything that goes on in the house. So I'm in the kitchen, Matt's in the living room, which is really the same room.
[00:01:28] MATT: What?
[00:01:29] FAWN: So Matt was on the phone with someone, and I don't like this person at all.
[00:01:35] MATT: Scandal.
[00:01:36] FAWN: And while he was talking, like I said, I was in the kitchen. I found myself beating the pots and pans hard, right? Like I was just mad. And then I look over at Matt and he has the cell phone right up to his ear. And he'd been talking for quite a long time.
[00:01:55] And I, my rage, just like it kept building, you could say my [00:02:00] anger kept building and building and building. And I was beating the pots and pans, I was taking the spoons and like hitting them against the pots. I was doing the dishes and making lots of noise for several reasons. One, because I needed to dissipate the anger that I was feeling, the rage.
[00:02:19] And like In, in banging something, it helps, much like for me, it helps when I use a curse word, like a cuss word. I love using bad, foul language. It makes me feel so much better. Hotty mouth. I feel relieved. So anyway, um, I finally look over at Matt, and I see the phone that's been stuck to his head, and I'm like, thinking about, you know, there's so many tumors that are exactly in the same spot
[00:02:48] where the cell phone is for people. They're finding people have tumors, quite a lot. And I said, Matt, get the phone away from your ear! Why don't you use a headphone? Why [00:03:00] don't you use your earbuds? And you were like, whatever, and you just put it like two inches away, which still doesn't do anything. So you would think that that was just anger.
[00:03:09] But really, I was feeling So many things. I was feeling sadness, fear, disgust, shame, and then resolve. Like, what am I going to do? And all of, I'm sure like a million other emotions.
[00:03:24] MATT: Time out. There was no happy, no joy, no, no generous generosity of spirit or anything. Not at that moment. Okay.
[00:03:33] FAWN: I know I was pissed.
[00:03:34] I was angry, but you know, I was concerned for your health. I was concerned that you were taking so much time talking to this person that, I feel like you were, your, your energy is getting sucked. It's never an uplifting conversation with this person. Never. Has it ever been?
[00:03:56] MATT: Of
[00:03:57] course it has been.
[00:03:58] FAWN: Really?
[00:03:58] MATT: Yes.
[00:03:59] FAWN: Are you [00:04:00] serious? Yes. Totally uplifting?
[00:04:02] MATT: Yes.
[00:04:03] FAWN: When?
[00:04:04] MATT: I was like eight.
[00:04:06] FAWN: Oh my
[00:04:06] god
[00:04:09] FAWN: No, i'm serious matt i'm serious
[00:04:10] MATT: i'm not
[00:04:11] unserious too, but you're right It's it's been quite some time. You are absolutely right
[00:04:18] FAWN: And I also heard you say Come on, let's be positive here Can we talk about anything positive?
[00:04:26] I heard you say that
[00:04:27] MATT: you did hear
[00:04:27] me say and
[00:04:28] FAWN: I and I think that's when I got Even more irate and that's when I started banging things around. I'm like, why are you even wasting your time? You have to deal with so much with with career stuff with the day you have like 20 million meetings a week
[00:04:42] MATT: 25 this week,
[00:04:44] FAWN: so I'm just I was just thinking to myself.
[00:04:48] Why are you wasting your time? Why are you giving this person so much energy and so much of your thoughtfulness so much of your sweetness for what?
[00:04:58] MATT: Well, you can at least focus on my [00:05:00] sweetness
[00:05:02] FAWN: I was worried and then I was fearful for your health. I was disgusted because I can't stand this person. And then I felt shame for feeling all the things that I was feeling.
[00:05:15] You know, and then I'm like, what am I gonna do? Like, oh well. And then I felt trapped. You know, and then I can't go anywhere because I'm in the kitchen making dinner. And I'm, I'm subjected to this conversation. You Do you know what I'm saying? And even if you go upstairs, I can still hear you. I don't know.
[00:05:33] I was just, it was just, it just made me really mad. But anyway, that's not the point of today's podcast. Actually, today's podcast, we're just talking, we are talking about emotions and how they're complex, but we're talking about the who, what, when, where, why, And how of things, and how we can use these to communicate better with one another.
[00:05:55] To understand, not just communicate because that's just such a broad term. [00:06:00] Really, it's about understanding the other person better. So we can have better relationships. And so I'm going to give you guys what they teach you in acting. So you have lines, you're reciting lines, you're working on a script,
[00:06:15] and your character is saying something. You don't just read the lines. And I think whatever I say that has to do with a voiceover work or acting, has to do with relationships with people. Everything that I'm taught, I'm always like, wow, that's friendship
[00:06:31] or that's a relationship. Let me just start from the beginning. Who am I speaking to? think of it as, okay, you're an actor. Who are you speaking to? What's your relationship? Your relationship to whom you're speaking to? What is it? How well does your character know this person and how do they feel about them?
[00:06:49] So think about it like this. Who are you talking to? What's your relationship with this person? How do you feel about this person? If we're really in touch with our emotions, like let's say [00:07:00] I'm talking to this person that you are talking with on the phone, I don't feel good about this person. And no matter what I say, it will come across.
[00:07:09] With a certain emotion. And I cannot hide it.. But we're all so psychic, we're all so sensitive to one another, especially now, that you're going to pick up the underlying emotion. You're going to pick up the truth.
[00:07:24] You're going to pick up the truth. And I think the best actors kind of hide that and when it comes out anyway, it's more profound, they're not overtly saying, I'm angry here. The anger comes out in micro movements or micro gestures or even micro aggressions, right?
[00:07:45] Right.
[00:07:46] FAWN: Next is who is speaking to your character and what are they actually saying? And that is what you're responding to. So let's take it on a human relationship level.
[00:07:57] Who are you talking to?
[00:07:59] And what [00:08:00] are you actually saying? Like you can say something as, as simple as. I love ice cream, but you can also be sarcastic I love ice cream. You know what I'm saying? You can sound different ways. Like you can sound sarcastic, you can sound flippant, you can sound anything depending on what it is you're feeling.
[00:08:22] So who are you talking to? If we realize who's in front of us. Instead of not acknowledging, yeah, we know we're standing in front of Joe. We know that. But to totally bring that into the now, to remind yourself, I'm standing in front of Joe. This is how I feel about Joe. You don't have to say it out loud, but acknowledge it to yourself.
[00:08:46] I think you're more. apt to have , a truer and maybe less, animosity because you're aware of it. So you can dissipate that within your heart before you [00:09:00] say whatever you're going to say before the words start flying out of your mouth,
[00:09:05] all right, should I go on to the next one?
[00:09:08] MATT: Okay, but how was I speaking with the person I was speaking with?
[00:09:11] Did you get an undercurrent of animosity or
[00:09:14] FAWN: no,
[00:09:15] MATT: so this is all you
[00:09:17] FAWN: No, I'm, I'm just giving an example, and yeah, I'm stuck on animosity and anger because I'm still feeling the rage. Okay. No, you were
[00:09:26] MATT: Was I delightful?
[00:09:27] FAWN: No, look, I'm not using the way you were talking as an example. I'm using what I experienced in the way I said, Matt, stop putting the phone to your head.
[00:09:38] And I sounded like a crazy lunatic, angry bitch. And I'm just trying to say it came across as anger. Was I really angry? No, I was fearful. I was disgusted. It was so much more than anger. I'm not using Your way of talking as an example. I'm I'm talking [00:10:00] about how I Responded to seeing the phone Stuck to your head, right?
[00:10:06] Okay and giving you direction like I was saying and I did say please I said, please don't put the phone to your head like that but it came across like I I probably sounded like um a lunatic like a witch like I don't know how I sounded but I know that's how I felt You know what i'm saying? Is that clear
[00:10:30] now?
[00:10:30] MATT: It is.
[00:10:31] FAWN: All right So, we went over the who, we went over the what, then we have when. When is this particular conversation taking place? Consider the relevant events and circumstances that happened before your character engages in the particular conversation or scene. For example, you're reading a script and you have this line.
[00:10:56] It could be that your character just came out of a battle, [00:11:00] they're out of breath, they're hurt, they're in pain, and they're now reciting the next line, right? Where were you? Let's say they just came out of a huge fight, they're not going to be like, Hey man, how's it going?
[00:11:13] It would be like, they would have to say it with pain or they're out of breath.
[00:11:18] Taking this into context of like, okay, we're now in front of people that we're in a relationship with. Thinking about the when, we can think about where this person just come from. Or it could also be, did this person just get off the phone from work? Did they just come from work?
[00:11:36] Like computer programmers, If they're in front of the computer coding all day, and then suddenly they have to engage, they're very robotic, I've noticed. Like your social elasticity is not so elastic. Like you're not very
[00:11:53] MATT: I'm always delightful.
[00:11:55] I'm a little hurt here.
[00:11:56] FAWN: I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about, I've [00:12:00] noticed computer programmers and I know, and I've also, when you were coding. You're not coding all the time. You're doing a lot of management. You're talking to a lot of people most of the time. But when you were coding like six, seven, eight hours straight.
[00:12:16] Right? And then we had to talk.
[00:12:18] MATT: We have to talk.
[00:12:20] FAWN: No, no, no. Then when we would talk, I'm like, Hey, how was your day? All I got was like a stream of acronyms and not much emotion. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, I don't, I don't understand a word of what you just said, but also, uh, how was your day? And then you would say the same thing all over again.
[00:12:38] I'm like, Oh my God, did you have fun? Did you laugh? Did you see what, did you see a squirrel? No, it was all, it was, you know, it was, you know what I'm saying? I don't want to keep talking.
[00:12:51] Okay. We always have to take the when and the where. As a huge factor, like where, you know, I don't want to skip to [00:13:00] where. Well, also
[00:13:00] MATT: like breakfast conversations are different than dinner conversations, typically.
[00:13:06] FAWN: Right. Or maybe the person came out of a funeral. Yeah. Or, um, you know, who knows?
[00:13:14] Or it's
[00:13:14] MATT: someone's birthday. Right.
[00:13:16] FAWN: Right. Always the positive. Good, good job, honey. Alright, so you, you get the point, right? I'll go to where, where am I? This affects your level of, projection.
[00:13:27] MATT: That, that is true for most people, but sadly not for me because I'll have the exact same conversation anywhere.
[00:13:34] FAWN: Matt has an outdoor voice indoors.
[00:13:37] MATT: Which is truly
[00:13:38] frightening.
[00:13:38] FAWN: So where means, for example, if you're outside, you tend to speak differently. You speak up when you're outside, we always heard the term indoor voice, you know, outdoor voice. Well,
[00:13:49] MATT: yeah, but even more specifically, I would have a different conversation with you downstairs.
[00:13:54] Where we are right now that I would have if we were at Burger King.
[00:13:58] FAWN: Well, [00:14:00] you wouldn't. You're right, I wouldn't, but most people would. Actually, you know what, as a whole family, I gotta say that that's a problem for us.
[00:14:07] MATT: It is.
[00:14:07] Because we watch a lot of movies together as a whole family and while the movie is playing everyone's talking.
[00:14:17] Oh my god. We're commenting on everything
[00:14:20] FAWN: And we're so loud and it's so hard to hear what is actually happening in the movie So we have to rewind, or backtrack whatever we call it now
[00:14:27] MATT: But we're
[00:14:28] very similar in real life
[00:14:30] FAWN: but but
[00:14:31] when we're outside sometimes we forget that we're not watching a movie and we're out in public and We comment on someone's appearance or we comment on someone's behavior.
[00:14:42] MATT: I
[00:14:42] did that today
[00:14:43] FAWN: I did that yesterday. We were at the apple store I I couldn't even control it.
[00:14:48] MATT: I I know the guy heard me. Now fortunately, I typically only raise my voice when i'm saying something nice, but still
[00:14:56] FAWN: Were you saying were you saying something nice? Yeah,
[00:14:57] he had a red hoodie with a big [00:15:00] blue f on it and I was like I wouldn't mind having a hoodie with an f on it
[00:15:05] and then our kid said, we should get that for mom.
[00:15:09] FAWN: That would be great because one of my favorite words is the F word, but it's also FAWN the first letter of my name. I would love that.
[00:15:18] Anyways, we're always thinking about it. When
[00:15:20] FAWN: I'm really angry on the phone, and things are not going right, and they're like, okay, how do you spell whatever, or like, what's your email, or whatever, when I get to the letter F, I'm like, F as in And then the kids start laughing, and I haven't even said anything yet.
[00:15:38] F as in Frank. Anyway, um, okay, so, so where are you? When you're whispering something to someone, like, you could be three feet away, but you could still think about, really, where am I with this person? You could be three feet away and have that loud voice. You could be three feet away and start [00:16:00] whispering.
[00:16:00] You could be three feet away and speak like you're speaking to, 15, 000 people. You can be three feet away and speak like you're talking to yourself. You know what I'm saying? Right. Like, think about where you are, where you are in life, where you are in proximity. To the other person and how you are in proximity to that person Does that make sense?
[00:16:27] You know what I'm saying? Like I can talk to you But I could talk to you like I'm talking to myself and I'm not even including you talking to you Right.
[00:16:35] You
[00:16:36] FAWN: really do it. Do you really?
[00:16:37] MATT: I do
[00:16:38] I do but it feels like on some level You're also traipsing on the who aspect of things. So
[00:16:43] FAWN: oh You Maybe a little bit.
[00:16:45] You're right. That's all. Yeah, that's true.
[00:16:48] MATT: I was right.
[00:16:49] FAWN: But, where, I'm still thinking of where as in like, I could think of it as, there's a wall between us. Right. Right. Like, even though we're three feet away, that's why I'm talking to [00:17:00] myself. Like, I'm not even including you in my space, which is what I was really thinking with the where.
[00:17:05] So, I can see how you thought, who? But I was thinking of proximity. Alright, so why? Why am I, why am I saying this? What's my motivation? What does your character want? So why are you saying what you're saying? What do you really want? Or, think about everything I'm saying from the other person's point of view too.
[00:17:25] Like, why is this person saying what they're saying? What's their motivation for saying what they're saying? Right. What do you think they really want when they're telling you what they're saying?
[00:17:37] MATT: Yeah, it's kind of fun. I'll have meetings like breakout meetings with people after my 25 meetings a week awesome because I just need to have a Quick confab with somebody but it's like I put in Can we talk after this call? And then i'll reread that i'll be like, oh man, what does that even mean what are they gonna pull from that?
[00:17:57] They don't have a context for why I want to talk to [00:18:00] them. And so I'll say, Hey, can we have a water cooler talk? It's nothing bad and nothing to do with you. I just wanted to go over one or two things that I learned at such and such.
[00:18:09] FAWN: Usually you don't have people explaining their motivation.
[00:18:13] MATT: Yeah, you don't. And that's the thing. It's like, if your boss is like, we need to talk, but I can't talk now. Let's talk at one 30 all day. You're like, Oh, Oh.
[00:18:24] FAWN: I find that most people, especially lately, like, the time that we're living in, we don't have time to process our emotions. And, not everyone has the luxury of, like, having time to including myself, going to a therapist to just speak, right? I feel like we say things, but why we're saying whatever we're saying is to just hear it ourselves so we can understand what we're going through and may have nothing to do with the conversation even.
[00:18:52] MATT: Right.
[00:18:53] FAWN: Everything has a reason behind it, even if it's something totally mundane.
[00:18:57] MATT: That is true. Absolutely [00:19:00] correct. And in computer programming, we have a term called rubber ducking. And that's when you basically, it's like you want, maybe, maybe you want another person in the room. Maybe you don't, but like you just want to talk and hear whatever it is that you're thinking about.
[00:19:18] And in this case, it's generally building a piece of software, but it doesn't really matter. It's the same concept. And so I'll ping somebody, I'll be like, Hey, can you rubber duck something with me? And they will. And it's just a case of this will allow me to kind of think things through. And then when I'm done rubber ducking, then maybe we'll discuss what it is
[00:19:36] I'm, I'm saying, but I just want to ponder the idea.
[00:19:41] FAWN: Do you think that's beneficial for the other person? It can be. Do you think it's something we should be doing in front of the mirror? Or like, alone, when we're in the room alone with ourselves? Or do you think it's important for the other person to hear it?
[00:19:54] Or is it too much information and it causes them to tune out?
[00:19:57] MATT: The answer is always it depends. There are [00:20:00] times when you literally want a rubber duck. And there are times when you just, you want somebody in the room to hear what you're saying to maybe help you with it.
[00:20:07] FAWN: So do you tell them that you're rubber ducking?
[00:20:09] MATT: I will, yes.
[00:20:11] FAWN: Do you ever rubber duck without knowing that you're doing that?
[00:20:14] MATT: Of course, we all do.
[00:20:16] FAWN: Alright, should I go on to the how?
[00:20:17] MATT: Yep.
[00:20:18] FAWN: Alright, how am I really feeling? It's not always about what is actually said, but also about what is unsaid. So, for example, ask me what flavor ice cream I want.
[00:20:30] Oh, I don't care. You know, I don't, I, I don't care. I don't care!
[00:20:35] MATT: I think she wants the mint chocolate chip.
[00:20:38] FAWN: We can say the same words, but they definitely have different meanings. It's all in how we're feeling.
[00:20:43] MATT: Yep.
[00:20:43] FAWN: Um
[00:20:43] And it's also context. Yep.
[00:20:45] In history.
[00:20:47] FAWN: Right, like, in just saying, I don't care, usually it's like, I'm really, really upset about this. And I don't want to cause conflict with you, so let's just drop it. Right. Or, or in my case, [00:21:00] I'm like, I'm letting you know I'm really angry about this. And I want you to understand Even though we're talking about ice cream.
[00:21:09] There's something really wrong here. Or I'm telling you, honestly, I love chocolate chip. I love vanilla. I love, I love whatever vanilla. I already said that, you know, love all of it. I don't, I, I don't care. I don't care at all. I mean, I totally don't care,
[00:21:28] Another example is like urgency. Is there an urgency on something. You can say,
[00:21:34] I don't care, or you can say, I don't care. Hurry up and do this thing. Like I don't care. Right? Move. Anyway, so many, so many different ways that we're always communicating, but I think it's necessary to stop and reflect like, an actor has to think about the who, the what, the when, the where, the why, the how, all of that.
[00:21:59] [00:22:00] If we can just remember that, or remember one maybe, or remember These things are at play just remember that That we tend to not get so, offended Not as much. Anyway, do you know what i'm saying? We won't take things as personally I think I talked about this once before when I was 13 or 14.
[00:22:20] One day, I just, the rage was building in me. The phone rang. And this was back in the day, there was no caller ID. It was just a phone. When it rang, you had no idea who was calling, right? There was no number to show up, nobody's name to show up.
[00:22:37] There was nothing digital about it. You pick up the phone, there was a set for the ear and a little piece on the end for your mouth. You know, and I picked up and I said, Hello, like I was so mad and right away, again, I didn't know who it was that was calling, but it turned out to be a friend of mine and she was so offended by the way I answered the [00:23:00] phone as if I knew that it was her and I purposely was mad at her.
[00:23:03] Right. And I was trying to explain, Oh my God, I'm sorry. But I was in pain. In the midst of rage, when the phone rang and I had to pick up the phone, I, but she didn't, she still didn't understand. She, you know what I'm saying? The damage was done. Right. But if we could remember not to take things so personally and remember, oh, well, where's this person coming from?
[00:23:27] What's going on with them? You know, what's their motivation? All of this that we use in acting, I think, if we could remember it, I think it's actually a pretty great tool.
[00:23:37]
[00:23:37] MATT: It's it's all good stuff. I the ish the ish maybe I would have is that as a black belt in emotional intelligence. Oh, we have some eye rolls.
[00:23:50] FAWN: I did not roll my eye. I did not roll my
[00:23:53] MATT: eyes. Genuineness is important. Oh, that's all. That's all I'm thinking and and I [00:24:00] think it's it's important for all of us to remember that While we feel like we're the star we are the star of our own show Everyone else has their own shows, too.
[00:24:14] But that's the
[00:24:14] FAWN: problem. Everybody's the star of their own show and it's one sided. I think with friendship, with relationships, it's a co star situation.
[00:24:24] MATT: I get to be your co star?
[00:24:27] FAWN: Everyone has as much validity and as much star power. Whoever we're in front of. That's why I'm mad.
[00:24:35] I'm mad. About, taking an hour of your time to talk to someone who is doing nothing but sucking the life out of you. I really want to know.
[00:24:42] MATT: I'm a good guy.
[00:24:43] FAWN: You are a good guy, but I wanna know!
[00:24:46] Well, we can talk about it later!
[00:24:47] FAWN: No! Anyway, that's it for me.
[00:24:51] MATT: Okay. Sounds good. Don't look at me like that.
[00:24:54] FAWN: Alright, guys. Talk to you later. Love is winning.
