Episode Transcript
Orientation towards the common good in cities, the role of individual urban mobility behavior and how that affects our friendships.
Light Speed or Warped Speed
[00:00:00] Fawn: Hello everybody. Welcome back. Oh my
[00:00:02] MATT: goodness.
[00:00:02] Fawn: Hello. Oh my goodness. It's been a trying time for everybody. Everybody calm down. Everybody take it easy. If you can, bake some cookies. Something. So, what say you, Matt? What say I to
[00:00:18] MATT: what? Ah, yes. So I found a particularly quote unquote incendiary article online, which they were attempting to paraphrase an article from the Journal of Social Psychology.
[00:00:32] MATT: And the article is called, you're going to love this title, you are going to love this. Orientation towards the common good in cities, colon. The role of individual urban mobility behavior. Wow. Tearing that apart. It
[00:00:49] Fawn: sounds really boring.
[00:00:50] MATT: It does, doesn't it? Oh my goodness. But of course, the internet in its infinite wisdom chose to sum it up in like six or seven words.
[00:00:58] MATT: Cyclists are better than drivers.
[00:01:02] Fawn: Clickbait. They're better than drivers. Yes. Oh, for sure. Yes, absolutely. Why do you say that? Because you have to, notice a lot more than drivers. You're not insulated. It's much like how people are jerks online because they don't have to have their name. They have this bubble of anonymity.
[00:01:20] Fawn: Mm hmm. So they can be jerks. People that drive around in cars can... Do mean things to you and drive away. They're in a bubble unless You're in America and you you can shoot people, you know, like what are they gonna do? You know what I'm saying? You can like call them names. You can like be mean you can drive aggressively You're you're protected by a certain bubble people who ride bikes or pedestrians They know every nook and cranny of the road every bump affects them Way more than a bump would affect a car.
[00:02:01] Fawn: So you're more sensitive You have to watch out for people just all of a sudden opening their doors when you're riding your bike That happened to me once. A parked car like all of a sudden opens their door You're more susceptible to weather So you're more sensitive.
[00:02:21] MATT: You're more sensitive, which is a fun filled kind of way of describing it Because that cuts all possible ways You're more sensitive, meaning, hmm, certainly what they found was that you are more committed in general, and specifically you're more committed to political participation, which is a fun one, social participation, and you're more committed to your neighborhood, because when you drive through you can kind of blissfully ignore, but when you are cycling through you can't.
[00:02:56] MATT: You're Or you, you still can, but it affects you more, for sure.
[00:03:00] Fawn: And you spend more time there, because you can't just whiz by 50 miles per hour. That is true. And just go through it really fast. You're susceptible. You're vulnerable, is really what I was looking for. That's the word I was looking for.
[00:03:15] Fawn: You're more vulnerable.
[00:03:16] MATT: You're more vulnerable. Exactly. Remember when we lived, in Washington, I would always take, in the Baby Bjorn, uh, I would always take our oldest out on walks. And we'd go walk by Lucky the Cow, and, yeah. And when you, when you cycle, one of the things they found out is when you cycle or when you walk, because it also comes down to people, uh, pedestrians as well, there's something about the connectedness.
[00:03:43] MATT: There's something about being in the sights, the smells. The smells is what gets me. Because you don't ever, when you're in a car, tooling along, even with the windows down, you don't necessarily smell anything unless you smell something really bad.
[00:03:58] MATT: As opposed to just smelling and hearing everything. And certainly vulnerable plays an interesting part in it. Cause when I've been cycling, I have cycled past snakes. I have cycled over a snake once. I have seen, I have seen turkeys. Chipmunks, squirrels, bears, bunnies, bears. You know, not by the hundreds or anything, but certainly enough for me to not be cocky.
[00:04:27] Fawn: So does that mean people who walk are kinder than people who ride bikes? Oh, that is an interesting point. I mean back in Santa Monica days, I would say that cyclists on the boardwalk were the biggest jerks because Here we are having a nice day in the middle of the day, mind you. Rollerblading and constantly being yelled at by these like quote unquote serious bike riders, bicyclists, cyclists, whatever you want to call them.
[00:04:59] Fawn: And I would get, I would go from being so happy and laughing with my friends or like rollerblading. To all of a sudden yelling at these people, who were yelling at me, who are now, like, probably, I don't know, 30, 40 feet away now. But, like, they would yell at me and say, This is the boardwalk! Go faster, go to the right!
[00:05:22] Fawn: I'm like, this is not the office, you... Blah, blah, blah, blah. And what's
[00:05:27] MATT: interesting is, you know... This is
[00:05:28] Fawn: not the office, why are you so serious?
[00:05:31] MATT: They're sharing so many behaviors as to what you just described with cars. Right, exactly. Because they're more isolated. They don't necessarily see you as a person as you, as they whiz past, and they don't have to deal with the consequences, really, of you getting upset.
[00:05:47] MATT: They just get to say whatever they get to say, and then they're gone.
[00:05:51] Fawn: Jerks. So when you brought up, like, this is what you were going to talk about, that's the first thing I remembered
[00:05:57] MATT: was... God, cyclists are jerks. They're not good
[00:05:59] Fawn: people. They, yeah, they were big a holes.
[00:06:02] MATT: And is that, is that it? Are we as big of a holes as society will allow us
[00:06:06] Fawn: to be?
[00:06:07] Fawn: I don't want to blame society. It's your own. It's your own. You're making excuses, like, ooh, society made me this way. No. Behave. Be kind. Seriously. Be kind. So, like, what? It's like the bully system. It's the hierarchy. All of a sudden you are the hierarchy, so now you get to beat down on the person slower than you.
[00:06:31] Fawn: It just, it just makes me insane. Makes me so mad. Yeah, I feel ya. And it was the middle of the day. Dude. Like, seriously. It's siesta time. Calm down. We're all here trying to relax and have a good time. I'm sorry I'm not going by your timeline. I'm not going fast enough for you. F off.
[00:06:58] MATT: Yeah, it's actually interesting.
[00:07:00] MATT: Last time I was on the trail, somebody was blocking the trail. And for, An eighth of a second I got annoyed, because I had to tap my brakes.
[00:07:09] Fawn: Oh, poor baby. Well, but that's just it. And that's just it with drivers. They're like, they can't be bothered to slow down.
[00:07:16] MATT: That is true. But on a bike, it takes effort sometimes to get back up to speed.
[00:07:21] Fawn: So what? Well, if that's... You're there to use your body and work out, right? At
[00:07:29] MATT: optimal peak
[00:07:30] Fawn: performance. Matt, you all go too fast. You all go too fast.
[00:07:38] MATT: I go as fast as the trail will let
[00:07:40] Fawn: me. Exactly. 30.
[00:07:47] Fawn: But if you're going 30 they get mad at you and like or tailgating tailgating. What do you call it? They call it tailgating when they're like right up on your bumper. Yeah So scary. I hate driving if I had my own town, which I call Fawn town Driving is out of the out of the picture. Nobody's allowed to drive a
[00:08:07] MATT: car Which is interesting because that is something I'm gonna want to touch on at some point for sure on the broadcasts.
[00:08:13] MATT: What do you mean? There are communities that are attempting to do away with
[00:08:18] Fawn: cars, so. I think it would make us, such a happier, friendlier society because it makes you slow down, like all the reasons we just said. but also, I wonder if that's why... Los Angeles has the biggest, case of being a holes.
[00:08:35] MATT: Right. Yeah, and another thing, interesting thing And you
[00:08:37] Fawn: know, from neighborhood to neighborhood, I'm sorry I cut you off, but like, there's no sense of neighborhood, really, in LA. There wasn't. I mean, it's been a long time since we've lived there, but I can't imagine it's changed too much. There's no connection.
[00:08:52] Fawn: There's no it's very rare, let's just say that. I mean, we had that in Santa Monica, but hello! Most of us didn't drive in Santa Monica. We parked our cars, but we walked and rollerbladed and skateboarded all over the place. Occasionally we would take the electric bus that would just go up and down Main Street.
[00:09:14] Fawn: You know, we didn't need the cars. And it made us all so much calmer and friendlier. And like, places like New York, they have more neighborhood vibe. Why is that? I don't think most people drive there. Right.
[00:09:29] MATT: Anyway. Another thing that's interesting and perhaps troubling for, uh, for Americans especially, this was a German study, but other, another thing they noticed was not only do you have a stronger emotional bond to your neighborhood, but you're also exhibit less individualistic behavior.
[00:09:49] MATT: You're more likely to join groups, social and otherwise. If you don't have a car? If you ride a bike. Oh, right. Cyclists. Right. Which is interesting, and, and, you know, as the rugged individualists in America, that's something that perhaps is not something we're as comfortable with. But if you think about it, it's like, yeah, joining a club, be it a cycling club or a knitting club or, uh, you know, you're connecting with other
[00:10:16] Fawn: people.
[00:10:16] Fawn: But wouldn't you say that only happens in the cities? Because, like, let's talk Middle America. Mm hmm. It just seems more rugged and more, uh, spaced out. I don't think they have bike trails, really, a lot, do they? I don't know, I imagine just roads. And roads that aren't, safe for a bicycle. So again, I think these are just very city centric things.
[00:10:42] Fawn: But
[00:10:42] MATT: again, European, specifically German study. Oh, sorry. And they looked at Amsterdam, they took a
[00:10:47] Fawn: look at... I tuned that out. Okay, you're right. Okay, gotcha. So
[00:10:50] MATT: again, they're looking at... And they're also looking at German, uh, European and, you know... But then again... Northern European sensibilities, too.
[00:10:57] Fawn: There again, though...
[00:10:59] Fawn: I've always seen a much more greater sense of community and friendship and family, family oriented, friendship oriented, as opposed to us in the United States, very, very individualistic, very, this is my bubble, don't invade my bubble, like even standing in line, like there's, this is way before the pandemic, but it's just an unknown, unspoken rule that you don't get, Within a certain amount of inches of someone right
[00:11:29] MATT: and you certainly don't you can it's like Social convention dictates you're you can talk to the cashier But you can't talk to other people in line for some reason and I'm not sure what that story really is
[00:11:45] Fawn: Don't get me started on that.
[00:11:46] Fawn: I mean, yeah people talk to the cashier. You can talk to the cashier Because that's their job. It's like they're held prisoner to that right? They can't say no to you. You know what I'm saying? Yep, and also Having been a barista and having worked retail for so many years. Mm hmm. It's like we're the punching bags.
[00:12:06] Fawn: Like, people just vent and are mean. If they're having a bad day, the cashier, the barista, the person serving you food, those people that serve the public. It's a tough job. And it's because, we don't pay them enough and they're just there. They're, they're there. Even the receptionist.
[00:12:25] Fawn: They don't really have them that much anymore nowadays, but like, the people who stand in front, at the front desk, they're there to take the blows, and it's usually women. Interesting, right? Right. It was a tough job. When I was a receptionist, when I was the front person of the company, it was ridiculous.
[00:12:47] Fawn: It's ridiculous the amount of abuse people hurl at you and you're supposed to smile through it all. Right. And God forbid you don't smile, you don't look happy and you get fired. Anyway, I digress. Go on then. I'm having a weird day. I'm still trying to get over the shock of the accident outside
[00:13:08] MATT: our house.
[00:13:08] MATT: There was, there was a road collision outside
[00:13:11] Fawn: of our house today. Yeah, we think it was a hit and run. It was terrifying. It was far
[00:13:14] MATT: enough away that we could see the lights, but.
[00:13:17] Fawn: No, not, it was just right there
[00:13:19] MATT: behind the lights far enough away that we didn't see the cars. Because they had,
[00:13:23] Fawn: the trees were blocking.
[00:13:24] Fawn: But we could hear everything. The trees were just blocking. But anyways, yes. Anyway, I'm totally still completely petrified. Right.
[00:13:32] MATT: Anyway, go ahead. And, and, well, it's interesting thinking about that because another thing I was looking at was it's like, by the way, when you're on a bike, always wear your helmet.
[00:13:45] MATT: Okay? Just always wear your helmet. But as it turns out, if you don't wear your helmet, people are 30 percent more likely to see you as a person than if you do wear a helmet. Like, all of a sudden you get dehumanized because they can't see your flowing locks. And I have to wonder if I'm in a fast food restaurant or Starbucks, whatever, the uniform, if they see me as less, if they would see you as less than human.
[00:14:14] MATT: Yeah,
[00:14:15] Fawn: yeah. You're, you're, it's a uniform, so, yeah, you're part of the, I don't know what the word is. No, no. The collective would be the people that are buying stuff, right? The collective would be, like, everybody else. But the people in the front, who are servicing. I don't know what the word would be for that.
[00:14:40] Fawn: I mean, it's a group of people. But also, it's your speed. That's what dehumanizes people. It's because you're going fast. You're too fast to be able to make eye contact and to vibe. You're too fast. You're, you just want to go through. You, you're self said. You want to go through and if you slow down, It's harder for you to get back on track.
[00:15:04] Fawn: That's ridiculous. It is.
[00:15:06] MATT: It is. And that's why I got upset for like an eighth of a second and then I mellowed out. I'm
[00:15:10] Fawn: just, I'm not trying to harp on you. I had to hit my bell and hit
[00:15:12] MATT: my bell and hit my bell. That's
[00:15:14] Fawn: all. That's just, I don't know. See, when I'm riding a bike, I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
[00:15:18] Fawn: I'm like a very noisy person. Cause I'm nervous. That's why we don't go riding together. And plus, I don't like to go more than 10 miles an hour. Right. Whereas, I'm happy at 15. I just want to relax, for goodness sake. Everything is too fast. Everything. We're eating too fast, we're walking too fast, we're riding our bikes too fast, we're driving too fast.
[00:15:41] Fawn: Come on. What for? What for?
[00:15:45] MATT: So I can get home to my family.
[00:15:50] Fawn: You're eating fast because you want to get home. No, I'm riding my bike fast when we even with some friends we they eat fast And well ever since we had kids You only get I mean I'm still stuck in that pattern of like, oh you only have like a minute to eat You just shove it in and shovel it in before you have to get to the next thing you have to do but The kids are not babies anymore, and I'm still doing the same thing.
[00:16:24] Fawn: Because I'm feeling anxiety. I think anxiety is the key. It makes you move fast. Your heart is racing, so everything else starts racing to keep up to that level. Right. Of haste. Haste! Hasty! Why are we so hasty? Calm down. Seriously. I'm so upset right now. Uh oh, I better be quiet. I seriously don't want to leave the house.
[00:16:50] Fawn: Like, I'm, I was like this a few years ago, besides the pandemic, but like, there was a time in Santa Monica where I just didn't want to leave the, the studio. I didn't. I felt so much anxiety and I want to say it was, um, before 9 1 1, I think I was picking it up before 9 11. And then shortly after that, I was like, yeah, I don't want to go out, but I'm, I'm starting to feel the same again.
[00:17:19] Fawn: I don't like it. I was just in the basement. Amy was like, are you out in the basement? And I forgot. I had said, yeah, I'm in the basement. I'm like, well, I'm in the living room. Why are you asking? And she's like, you were in the basement. I'm like, oh, that's right. I forgot. I was talking about how I had to remove myself, I felt like, from what was going on in the world, like out there, to calm myself down, to slow down.
[00:17:43] Fawn: Because I didn't feel safe being out there, right? Right. I didn't feel safe. Maybe I would have participated in saying the wrong thing to the wrong person or to anyone so I had to slow myself down. I had to remove myself Anyway, it feels good honestly, that's why I said let's bake cookies because that causes you to slow down to a certain pace Right.
[00:18:04] Fawn: That's why I liked photography not digital But when I studied photography everything had its time You couldn't rush it if it was going to take 90 seconds in this solution So put the paper in. It needed to be 90 seconds. You can't rush it. 90 seconds. No more, no less. And I just think that that's a good lesson to have, to remember.
[00:18:30] Fawn: It's a calm down. Sorry, I probably took it way away from what you wanted to talk about.
[00:18:36] MATT: Well, I just had one kind of final thought about the whole thing, something to think about as far as cyclists or people who walk or even people who rollerblade go. And that is, of course, because they're doing this, they're going to get all the endorphin rush that you get from doing that.
[00:18:55] MATT: And something that I came across recently said, if your work is primarily in your head, Your free time should be in your body and vice versa. So if you do, because I'm a computer programmer, all the time in my head, it is good to get in my body and just watch and marvel at what my body can do. And for people who have physical labor, physical jobs, it's a good idea to get into your head and your personal time.
[00:19:24] MATT: Balance, balance,
[00:19:26] Fawn: balance. I think that we need more nature. Remember, to think about everything having its own time, its own season, to sense the wind, to look at other sentient beings,
[00:19:41] Fawn: everything is a living creature
[00:19:44] Fawn: I think speeding up has to do with rage. and Anxiety not being happy in the moment Wanting to escape it wanting to move through it
[00:19:52] MATT: yeah, why do we have to have our fingers on the fast forward button all the time?
[00:19:55] MATT: It's,
[00:19:55] Fawn: it's, I don't think that most people are aware of it. I'm not aware of it either, but I feel like a sense of urgency constantly. And therefore the anxiety. Right. Where is that really coming from? No idea. I mean, it could be various different things. So, is it something that we are avoiding as a society?
[00:20:16] Fawn: When you avoid something, and you kind of put it on the back burner, It feels like everything else you're doing has to be rushed. Because you're not doing what you should be doing. Maybe what you should be doing is just being still and you're not. Maybe what you should be doing is this creative project that's been whispering to you and you don't sit down quietly to do it, to let it come to you.
[00:20:37] Fawn: That happened to me. For two years I've been working on these picture books and for the last two years it's, it, I have been stuck because for various different reasons. The words weren't coming out. And then all of a sudden, I'm talking to Tracy, and she's like, Why don't you just let yourself vomit? Like, vomit it out. That's literally what she said. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about what it sounds like. Just do it. And I had heard that advice before, but for some reason, It stuck, and I did it, and I know I have 183 more edits to go, but it is finished, as far as like, this is the idea, beginning, middle, end, here it is.
[00:21:19] Fawn: Right. Exactly the way it was intended to be, like the way it was whispered into my heart, that's the idea. So then, when a, like, when, like, someone, like, an editor saw it, like, not an editor, a teacher actually saw it, read it, although I don't think she totally read it properly, she made the most off comments, and for me, I was like, Wow, you don't get it.
[00:21:44] Fawn: Whereas before it would have destroyed me like, Oh God, okay, I'll do it this way. I'm like, no, you don't get it. So obviously I'm still polishing it, but you don't get it. That's not it. And I was confident in that, you know, but I'm just saying that once I finished that, even if it's very rough and ugly, the words were out on the page and the rest of my schedule felt like I had so much free time and I started to enjoy my day.
[00:22:13] Fawn: And I felt this burden being lifted . I felt like I could breathe. So, what is it that we're ignoring? That we're putting off? That's making us so aggravated and anxiety ridden and always in a rush. I think it's because of the avoidance of whatever it is that we should be doing.
[00:22:30] Fawn: Have a beautiful everyday, everybody. That's the spirit. Alright, talk to you guys later. Have a beautiful. Be well and safe and joyful every day. We'll talk to you in a few days. Be well. Bye.
