Episode Transcript
Through the Lens: How We See Ourselves and Each Other
Fawn: [00:00:00] Welcome back everybody. Hello. There's one thing I think we should be desensitized about. Uhoh. Okay. So I was listening to the Li. Hello? I was listening to an expert person about, I'm not, I can't talk today. Is
MATT: that expert in double air quotes?
Fawn: No, I was listening. To a person that specializes in speech and communication, and they were explaining why people hate the sound of their own voices.
Ah. Um, and he explained because you hear your own voice through muscles and bone. So when you hear it on a machine or something, when you hear it outside of yourself. The reason why people hate it, or they're like, oh, it's terrible because you're used to hearing your deeper sound through your own skull, that he doesn't say it that way.
But that's my interpretation, [00:01:00] that when you actually hear yourself, you're a way higher pitch than you thought. And so I was thinking, I wish, 'cause I definitely got over that. 'cause I had to, obviously I've been for years now, editing our podcast and I have to hear my own self speak. I had to just get over it.
Right. And the way I did that was I just pretended I was listening to someone else at first, right? And then I got used to my voice, right? And then I figured out how to, how to. Be more conscious about my voice, I guess. Mm-hmm. How to be more aware and present with my voice. Anyway, it's stuff that I've kind of known since I was a little kid.
'cause I noticed how people around me would speak and how jarring it would be, or how annoying certain people were in my life, or how scary they were. You know what I mean? Go down the list of whatever emotion you wanna attach to a voice. Right. And so [00:02:00] I was aware of how I can, how do I say this?
How I can use my emotions to be thoughtful and to be present with my emotions, how I'm feeling as I'm speaking, so that I'm always honest. You know? Mm-hmm. So anyway, I wish I could do it for video, because I still to this day will not allow anyone to photograph me. I hate being photographed.
MATT: Right.
Fawn: The only way I'll do it is if I take my own picture, you know? Mm-hmm. Because, and he says it's the same thing, like you're used to looking at yourself in the mirror, but then when you see someone else looking at you, like when you see a picture of yourself, it's totally the other way around. It's jarring.
It's different. It's different than how you see yourself, but I wanna say it's more than that with a voice too. I can say from my professional experience, that being photographed, [00:03:00] any fool can come up to you and just photograph you, pick up the camera and just shoot.
They're not aware of everything that's happening between you with a camera and the person or whoever, you're photo or whatever you're photographing, you're not aware of the space and time in between. You and I have always, ever since I was a little kid, have always felt that there's all this many universes happening between the lens and the subject.
That if you blindly or haphazardly, just pick up the camera and just, press the button. You don't know, you're not really conscious of what you're picking up. You are not seeing clearly, you're not sensing exactly what's there. So whatever you pick up is an in-between and not necessarily doing justice of representing what you're wanting to portray.
I don't know if that makes any sense. Can you, can you translate, do you know what I'm talking about, Matt? I [00:04:00] do. Can you translate what I just said?
MATT: Not without getting even more esoteric sometimes it feels like, but I, I would say that when we take a look at a picture that somebody's taken of us or you listen to audio that has been recorded of you, it's almost like it's the objective view. It can be sterile, maybe it can be clinical, and it can be completely wrong at the same time.
It's really, really hard to, for us, certainly these massive balls of ego that we are to, to, to see ourselves truly as others see us, to, um, be able to look at ourselves without putting so much emotion on top of it. I mean, I, to this day, I look at pictures of me and I'm like, wait, who's that old guy? And that, that's been in the past five, 10 years.
It's a weird world. And, and trying to get comfortable with that. Now I have a mirror over my monitor and I look at myself all the time, all day, every day. Sometimes it feels like, 'cause you know, I'm so pretty, but, um,[00:05:00]
but when I take a look at pictures, I'm like, what?
Fawn: But it's all in how it's you. You're not really explaining what I was trying to say, but you have a good point. First of all. Even with audio, everything, it depends on what mic you're using. It's it, yes. There's so many things that can change the interpretation of how you're portrayed. With photography,
there's lens, there's lighting, there's angles, everything can radically change how you look. Yes. And, and you know, how does, okay. It's, it's really an incredibly rich topic that I can probably talk about for many days straight, but I don't want, I just want to gear it towards how we see each other and how we show up for one another-
for Friendship, for Humanity in the world is to just remember that part. [00:06:00] That remember there's a lot happening between you and whatever you're looking at. So whatever you're looking at can shift. Because there's a whole many universes in between you. So be mindful. I know this sounds really crazy out there, but be mindful of exactly how you're viewing. Remember that you are experiencing everything through many filters and many lenses.
Many windows.
MATT: See, I would put it as, it's a weird thing, like when I perceive someone, I'm looking through my prejudices, my experiences at their prejudices and their experiences.
Fawn: That's another topic. Yeah.
MATT: I, I remember thinking about this at one point because it was like, oh my God, that person is such a fool, such an a-hole, such a whatever.
Right. Are they a hundred [00:07:00] percent of the time a fool in an a-hole? I don't know. I can't imagine somebody can go through their lives being an a-hole a hundred percent of the time.
Fawn: That's from your baggage. You know? It could be that yes, you have seen this person w you, you have absolute reason to think they're a fool, right?
However, it could be your own experience that you're bringing to the situation,
MATT: right?
Fawn: You know that right now you're triggered by foolishness. You know what I'm saying? So then you any bit, I mean, we all carry everything within us. Foolishness, genius, all of that. So if you are, if you're being triggered right now that's in your field of like you're kind of fed up with foolish behavior in the world, any little speck of hair of
foolishness in a person will be magnified for you. and, and that's another thing I wanted to talk about because we all [00:08:00] come with our own lenses and our own baggage. I'm talking about what's in between us. I'm talking about an ethereal realm that is not physically seen. But it's there and it can definitely change your view, and if you're taking a picture of that, then you're picking up that rather than, let's say you were photographing a person, you're picking up that in between and not necessarily the person because it's really a fraction of a second that you're photographing something.
You, you're, and this is why I hate being photographed, because you're condemning that person to however way you are tuned into whatever universe you are tuned in, and now you're claiming that what you photographed is that. That's why I do a prayer before I photograph anything to make sure that I get
a representation that is true of this [00:09:00] person, true of this building, true of this, whatever I'm photographing as much as possible. Anyway, uh, and most people don't do that. They're just like, whatever, I'm just gonna take a picture. You know, even professionals, you know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. Like, it's, it's however way they see like, oh God.
A long time ago, another lifetime ago, I was friends with a lot of photographers and one in particular, she was a very sexually uh, promiscuous and
MATT: who
Fawn: she was. She was just like, she had issues. Right. Okay. She had a lot of issues with addiction on many levels and um, and I was really naive, like I was so straight laced and everything, but looking at me, you thought I was just some hippie, you know, but I was like not into drugs.
I was not into, . Whatever deviance this person was into, I was not into it. But anyway, we all like shared [00:10:00] studio space and we shared photography stuff sometimes and she wanted to photograph me and she wanted to photograph me a certain way. I'm like, mm-hmm. No, but she actually asked me to, 'cause she wanted, she wanted to photograph me in the nude, and I was like, absolutely not, because I know that, not that I have anything against nudes, but.
Because that's her whole life, and I would've been portrayed as whatever she is that she was trying to put on me. You know what I'm saying? She already spoke that way anyway. Mm-hmm. Like she said, oh, we have so much in common. She would say that to me all the time. That's why we're friends. We have so much in common.
You and I are exactly the same. She would say that, and I would be quiet, but inside I'm like, oh, honey, no,
MATT: I, I can't imagine a worse insult than to condemn someone by saying, you're just like me,
Fawn: but it's not condemning to them. Because [00:11:00] again, because I, I'm not a person that will sit there and protest and go, I'm this way, you're that way.
I'm just open. You know what I mean? Right. I let them say whatever they want, whatever. I'm like, I don't judge. I, I think I judge more now as I'm older, but
MATT: that's my bad influence.
Fawn: But back then I didn't, you know what I'm saying? So people felt comfortable and people thought I was one of them
right.
In every situation, but I wasn't.
But you know, I was just like letting everyone be and, but anyway. So as I've gotten more experience and especially having kids now, I, I will not allow for that to happen. It's, but it still does happen. It still does happen. You and the family know, the past week I've been like in a mood because of all the pent up stuff that I have been holding onto from things people have said because they, they assume too much about me.
You know what I'm saying? And I, and it's to the point where I, I don't wanna [00:12:00] go out, I don't wanna socialize. I need to collect my energy because it zaps you. It zaps me with my mm-hmm. My vital life force. I'm around these people and especially when they get mad at you, when they realize, I mean, deep down I think they realize you are not who they thought you were.
And then there's that weirdness of like, I feel bad 'cause now what? I'm not good enough for you. 'cause they're the ones who are like pulling away.
MATT: Mm-hmm.
Fawn: You know what I'm saying? Well, you betray
MATT: them by being you,
Fawn: but they will never say that. Right. Right. It's always like something wrong I did. Right. But I, the only thing I did was just be myself.
Mm-hmm. Which was there all along, but they didn't see it. 'cause I'm not protesting if they say something, that's not me. Right. Anyway, all this, we're talking about friendship and the whole idea of do we become sensitized or desensitized. There's a fine balance of being sensitive to something, but also [00:13:00] becoming desensitized.
And I think we should become more desensitized about ourselves so we can accept ourselves better. For example, I'm desensitized to my own voice now. Mm-hmm. That I'm able to hear my own voice and love it. You know what I'm saying? Right. Hopefully one day I can do that about my own image. Um, but again, it's, it's about.
That overcoming that whatever all that stuff is that makes you feel so sensitive about yourself, that gets in the way of really showing up in the world and not caring what anyone says or does, right? So you actually have more opportunities to really do what you want in life and have a great friend group.
You're not shy, you're not uncomfortable. Therefore, other people are comfortable and they're not shy. It's like how we say, like you're, you're the [00:14:00] host of a party. The host has to have fun and feel comfortable for their guests to feel comfortable and have fun. It's the same with, you have to, I think I, I believe it's nice to be
so not sensitized to every little aspect about yourself. So you're so comfortable with yourself that the world is comfortable and everyone around you is more comfortable. Also it because you're an inspiration.
MATT: Gotcha, gotcha. Yeah. I would just from, from my point of view, it's, it's just being able to laugh at yourself.
In your entirety
Fawn: because you're comfortable?
MATT: Because I'm, yes, but I would, I wouldn't put it as, because I'm comfortable. I would just say, because maybe I view myself on many levels as a cartoon, sometimes
Fawn: you don't take yourself seriously. Uh, okay.
MATT: That okay, fine.
Fawn: Is that what I'm saying? Yes. Is that what you're saying?
I mean, that's,
MATT: that's, that's exactly [00:15:00] what you're, what I'm saying. But I, now, I'm uncomfortable with that. What? I don't know. It sounds too grown up.
Fawn: I forgot what I just said. Actually. What did I say?
MATT: Oh, you don't take yourself too seriously.
Fawn: Yeah, right.
MATT: I know,
Fawn: but I like, who cares? I
MATT: do. And I don't.
Fawn: Who cares?
MATT: I can and I won't.
Fawn: And the thing is, nobody cares. Everybody's wrapped up in their own stuff. They don't really care. They don't care. Now, they could be judgmental. They don't care that maybe you're half an inch puffier today in your gut area 'cause you had too much salt the night before. Mm-hmm. Salt. You know what I'm saying?
They don't care. Right. They don't care. Now there are judgmental people that look at you. They're so superficial. They're like, oh, look at that. But that's really saying stuff about them. Do you know what I'm saying? Truth. It's so stupid and ridiculous. Get outta here. You don't want that. For real [00:16:00] though, right?
Well,
MATT: absolutely.
Fawn: Huh? As if they're not in human bodies, their bodies don't expand and contract. They're like perfectly chiseled all the time. Get outta here
MATT: that those are my abs. No, I mean,
Fawn: I mean, come on. I, you know, all my friends were Gold's Gym brats, right? Mm-hmm. I was in there twice a day every single day.
Even the muscle guys were like, you know, the chiseled guys that you know,
MATT: well, of course I do.
Fawn: They got puffy,
MATT: what in the next
Fawn: hour? Unp, puffy, and then puffy again, back and forth, like, please
MATT: gosh.
Fawn: Even the ocean goes back and forth. Come on. Anyway, so that's my thing today.
MATT: Okay. Is,
Fawn: does, wait, did, did we cover it enough though to make any sense?
I think so. Really? Yes.
MATT: Be you for goodness sake, and, and don't sweat it too much.
Fawn: I like how you take what we're talking about deep stuff, and you [00:17:00] always come up with like
MATT: a pithy saying,
Fawn: yeah,
MATT: wha Well, you just said you don't take yourself too seriously.
Fawn: Okay.
MATT: Whereas I prefer to think of myself as a cartoon superhero.
Fawn: Just, um, yeah. Don't worry about it. Who cares? Yeah. She's
MATT: gonna let go of that cartoon superhero now. What
Fawn: do you mean?
MATT: I just said, I like to view myself as a cartoon superhero.
Fawn: You are a superhero. You're my Viking God. But you're not, you just
MATT: don't take yourself too seriously.
Fawn: You, I, I take you seriously though.
Most of the time. Okay. Alright. Talk to you guys later.
MATT: Be well everyone.
Fawn: Oh wait. Have a beautiful every day.
MATT: Oh. And reach out to us on social media.
Fawn: Yeah, please. Okay. Okay. Bye.
