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The Japanese aesthetic principle embraces the imperfect and impermanent nature of all things; recognizing beauty in the flawed, the incomplete, and the broken.
Beauty can be found beneath the imperfect surface. (I repeat) Beauty can be found beneath the imperfect surface. Wabi-Sabi W A B I - S A B I Wabi-Sabi is the Japanese aesthetic principle that embraces the imperfect and impermanent nature of all things. Recognizing beauty in the flawed, the incomplete, and the broken; the beauty of imperfection, the beauty of quote-unquote imperfection, the understanding and appreciation, and respect
for, or of the transience, the imperfection, as we see it and recognizing the beauty of it all. That's Wabi-Sabi.
Wabi-sabi stems from the Buddhist understanding of three life principles. One is impermanence. Two is, suffering. Three is emptiness or absence,
but the meaning over time has transformed into finding joy in solitude, appreciating nature, lauding, old-age wisdom, accepting that things come and go, and loving them honestly, and deeply while they last. Wabi-Sabi recognizes that nothing lasts forever. And so it is rare and beautiful.
Some of the traits include modesty, subtle grace, acceptance,
earthiness and peacefulness. We can find wabi-sabi and everything. We can find it in aesthetics like when things are not symmetrical when there's asymmetry happening, that's wabi-sabi. You can find wabi-sabi in poetry. Every word is chosen after careful consideration and carries multiple meanings and intentions. You can find wabi-sabi in pop culture
when you are seeking the not so perfect.
As we, take in wabi-sabi and friendship, let's first look at how to ground ourselves and appreciate our lives as they are; as is; the big dreams, the big plans for the future, and every worry. Appreciate where you are right now. How can we do that? How can you appreciate where you are. That's part of wabi-sabi. Stop worrying about being so perfect.
It can block you. It can block you if you're trying to write a book. It blocks you in the art that you create. It blocks you from starting a brand new, beautiful journal when you are afraid to make one mark because you are seeking that perfection and you will end up not making any marks at all. And then if you do make all the perfect marks, does that really show your personality?
Does that really show the feeling, the emotion of basically all the things that you need when you're creating art?
Stop boring about being so perfect. It blocks you.
Highlighting the importance of every moment, even the hardships.
Accept things as they are, and as they come.
Appreciate your life where it is now and work towards your goals from there.
Strive for excellence, but don't get caught up in perfectionism.
Live your own perfect life with all its precious imperfections.
It sounds like I'm telling you what to do. Really. I'm telling myself what to do right now because we're in the midst of such a limbo that this is why we're talking about what we're talking about today because it's a lesson that I had to make myself sit down and bring to use. Appreciating what doesn't seem so great.
Transcript: Wabi Sabi Friend
[00:00:00] Fawn: Brilliant moment. It was a brilliant moment for you.
[00:00:04] Matt: Yes, it was.
[00:00:05] Fawn: I'm glad you had a perfect moment. Matt's talking about listening to the "Dark Side of the Moon". Pink Floyd's "
[00:00:10] Matt: Dark Side of the Moon".
[00:00:11] Fawn: And it's been years since he listened to it because the timing and the,
[00:00:15] Matt: the moment, his fear time was
[00:00:17] Fawn: brilliant.
It was perfect. And he listened to it for the first time since then
it's been a long,
[00:00:23] Matt: no, no, no, no, no. I haven't listened to it since. I listened to Pink floyd's "The Wall" yesterday.
[00:00:28] Fawn: Why must you point that at me? Like you point that at me, like it hurts. Oh my God. I hate it when people point to my face.
Cause I can feel it's sharp energy. Can I,
[00:00:39] Matt: can I
[00:00:39] Fawn: imagine he pointed his pen right at me and shook it? Can
[00:00:43] Matt: I just tell the whole story of listening to Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon"?
[00:00:47] Fawn: Alright. We've already talked
about, we've already talked about this, but go ahead.
[00:00:51] Matt: Fawn and I, took a train.
All the way up from Los Angeles to Seattle, which by the way is a very
long time.
[00:00:57] Fawn: And because of other tracks, or I don't know what's happening, but there are so many delays, like it stops. And I was like, I kept looking out the window. I'm like, I can walk faster to Seattle than this.
[00:01:10] Matt: Anyway, anyway, on our way back. so going there, we were in the cattle car and going home. I was like, no,
[00:01:17] Fawn: And on another show we talked about going up there, please listen to that in previous episodes. I don't remember which episode, but wow. If you want a little education on the heartbeat of race relations in America, and this was way before all the elections, the past few years.
Wow. And Matt was the instigator. I'll tell my
[00:01:41] Matt: story
anyways. So coming home, we had our own room as it were,
[00:01:50] Fawn: we did?!
[00:01:50] Matt: We did, we traveled first class
[00:01:53] Fawn: stop.
Oh, it
was because they gave us an upgrade because of all the fiascos that
happened on
the way up
[00:01:57] Matt: that was part of it anyways. It was nighttime Fawn was, in the club car, I think
[00:02:02] Fawn: I made some friends
[00:02:04] Matt: and you were hanging out in the club car.
And so I laid in our little, and it was a little, little bed and I could look out the window and I listened toPink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" the whole thing. So you heard the clackity clack of the rails? It was nighttime.
[00:02:21] Fawn: How long is the whole album when you listen to,
[00:02:24] Matt: uh, since I haven't listened to it in many years, I want to say it clocks in at standard album length.
So it's probably, it's somewhere between 33 and 65 minutes. That's typically album length when,
[00:02:36] Fawn: um, so it's like a movie minus, minus 30
[00:02:39] Matt: minutes. See, I listen to music all the time. My wife on the other hand, not so much. I mean, don't you remember? Like, nevermind.
[00:02:46] Fawn: I
do listen to music. Why you say that? I do listen to music.
All right. I don't have albums.
[00:02:53] Matt: Exactly. I mean, how do you really get into the mindset of the albums? How do you get into the mindset of an artist? If you don't listen to the tracks laid out in the order that they, they specify.
[00:03:04] Fawn: All right. You know what? Everything for me is ART. All right. I don't need to just listen to albums and try to configure the, the mindset of whatever.
Okay. I'm dealing with my own mind.
[00:03:18] Matt: Oh, wait a second. So, you can almost say that, you're appreciating something in a very transitory nature. Okay.
[00:03:25] Fawn: Stop it. Stop. Hold on. Hold. Stop it. No, no, don't get. Yes, don't go over there with it though. Don't go over there yet.
[00:03:34] Matt: Transitory nature, which I believe segues as right into today's
[00:03:39] Fawn: topic.
You know what, let me turn this off. We're going to start again. BYE! (Fawn turns off the recording and they come back)
Oh, my God, everybody welcome back. Help. You know, one of our friends that was listening (a new listener) told us it was so funny because I guess she caught an episode where we were fighting like that. And then we told everyone, we were just in a fight. Hello, good morning. And I was about to say, wow, we haven't fought in a long time, but here we go.
As soon as I have that thought, there we go. We have another fight. So Matt. E. Okay. Don't hijack. What I'm trying to say.
[00:04:13] Matt: Did you actually turn my microphone on? I can actually talk.
[00:04:16] Fawn: Oh my God. All right. Good morning, everybody. Good evening. Hello to all the time zones. Hello. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome, happy day.
Yay. Love is winning today's show. Let's get into it. Let me start over. Here we go. A brief stop. Laughing. A brief pause.
The Japanese aesthetic principle that embraces the imperfect and impermanent nature of all things; recognizing beauty in the flawed, the incomplete, and the broken.
Beauty can be found beneath the imperfect surface. (I repeat) Beauty can be found beneath the imperfect surface. Wabi-Sabi W A B I - S A B I Wabi -Sabi the Japanese aesthetic principle that embraces the imperfect and impermanent nature of all things. Recognizing beauty in the flawed, the incomplete and the broken; the beauty of imperfection, the beauty of quote unquote imperfection, the understanding and appreciation and respect
for, or of the transience, the imperfection, as we see it and recognizing the beauty of it all. That's Wabi-Sabi.
Wabi-sabi stems from the Buddhist understanding of three life principles. One is impermanence. Two is, suffering. Three is emptiness or absence,
but the meaning over time has transformed to finding joy in solitude, appreciating nature, lauding, old age wisdom, accepting that things come and go and loving them honestly, and deeply while they last. Wabi-Sabi recognizes that nothing lasts forever. And so it is rare and beautiful.
Some of the traits includes modesty, subtle grace, acceptance,
earthiness and peacefulness. We can find wabi-sabi and everything. We can find it in aesthetics, like when things are not symmetrical, when there's asymmetry happening, that's wabi-sabi. You can find wabi-sabi in poetry. Every word chosen after careful consideration and carries multiple meanings and intentions. You can find wabi-sabi in pop culture
when you are seeking the not so perfect.
As we, take in wabi-sabi and friendship, let's first look at how to ground ourselves and appreciate our lives as they are; as is; the big dreams, the big plans for the future and every worries. Appreciate where you are right now. How can we do that? How can you appreciate where you are. That's part of wabi-sabi. Stop worrying about being so perfect.
It can block you. It can block you if you're trying to write a book. It blocks you in the art that you create. It blocks you in starting a brand new, beautiful journal when you are afraid to make one mark, because you are seeking that perfection and you will end up not making any marks at all. And then if you do make all the perfect marks, does that really show the personality?
Does that really show the feeling, the emotion of basically all the things that you need when you're creating art?
Stop boring about being so perfect. It block you.
Highlighting the importance of every moment, even the hardships.
Accept things as they are, and as they come.
Appreciate your life where it is now and work towards your goals from there.
Strive for excellence, but don't get caught up in the perfectionism.
Live your own perfect life with all its precious imperfections.
It sounds like I'm telling you what to do. Really. I'm telling myself what to do right now, because we're in the midst of such a limbo that this is why we're talking about what we're talking about today, because it's a lesson that I had to make myself sit down and bring to use. Appreciating what doesn't seem so great.
How can you love something that's unlovable? Everyday seek out something that you don't want to love. I used to do that all the time in Santa Monica. Remember that studio that I always talk about. It's so beautiful. It was so great. I made it great after awhile. Like I fixed it up and made it look really nice and clean and beautiful, like a beautiful, beautiful photography studio.
But I remember laying down in bed and looking at the cracked wall, the radiator where the wall was kind of falling apart and thinking, okay, if I was a director of a movie, how would I show this part as beautiful? How would I look at this ugly part of the apartment of which there were many parts ugly, but how can I make it seem so beautiful and romantic.
And then before I know. It wasn't just my mentality. Whoever came over was like, wow, this place is really beautiful. Do you know what I mean? It changes everything. When you appreciate the imperfect, it is quite extraordinary. And so let's get into the wabi-sabi of friendship because we're not perfect and everything is transitory.
Let's deep dive into wabi-sabi in life. All right, Matt. Matt's like Matt, we need to shoot video. That's really funny. His expressions. All right, go ahead, Matt, what do you say?
[00:10:22] Matt: (Matt is laughing) Well, Fawn, Hello, everybody. I'm actually now allowed to talk. This is a good thing. Yay.
[00:10:30] Fawn: Stop it. Stop that.
[00:10:33] Matt: So in point of fact, as my, um, Co-Heart cohost has accurately stated, we talked about Wabi -Sabi. Now the actual word Wabi, it's actually a conjunction of two words.
Not in like IKIGAI. Wabi actually the first. Literally translated into the bittersweet pleasure in being alone. So this'll be fun as far
as
[00:10:54] Fawn: Wait... so "Wabi" is about being alone.
[00:10:56] Matt: Bittersweet pleasure.
[00:10:57] Fawn: The bittersweet pleasure of being
alone.
[00:10:59] Matt: Yes.
[00:11:00] Fawn: Perfect.
[00:11:00] Matt: And Sabi is the, it's almost like how everything looks better when you look back on it.
So it's the "Noble Veneer that the passage of time lends to people and objects".
[00:11:14] Fawn: What does that mean? Can you say that in a normal voice? I didn't understand what you just said,
[00:11:17] Matt: but it's more fun to say it in that voice.
[00:11:19] Fawn: I didn't, it did not register and compute.
[00:11:21] Matt: It's the Nobel veneer, meaning, you know, patina on something that the passage of time lends to people and objects.
So you don't necessarily realize that the span of time that you're living is, one of the best times of your life, oftentimes until after it's over.
[00:11:39] Fawn: Hm. Right.
[00:11:40] Matt: So it's this kind of looking back.
[00:11:43] Fawn: So that's why we want to harness it and maneuver a time and space so we can appreciate it in the
moment.
[00:11:50] Matt: Right? Absolutely. Appreciate it in the moment. That's the key and not constantly compare it to, the greatest moment of your life because you know, a few moments can hold to that, but appreciate the moments for
what they are.
[00:12:04] Fawn: Okay. It sounds like we're so intelligent. I think we sound intelligent.
We probably don't, but it's funny because let's be honest. How did we learn about wabi-sabi? We learned about it years ago, but
[00:12:18] Matt: Why I was reading, you know, my 800 page book on Zen Buddhism. Where did you find out about it?
[00:12:25] Fawn: Hank Hill. What was the name? When I show king of "King of the Hill" I don't know other countries listening "King of the Hill".
I don't know if you get that.
[00:12:35] Matt: Mike Judge actually, wrote, produced, et cetera, the show. And he's the guy who made Idiocracy, which was a interesting movie to say the
least.
[00:12:44] Fawn: Really? I didn't know that idiocrasy, if you watch that, it's absurd and good. But yeah, it's an animation adult animation series kind of like the Simpsons,
[00:12:55] Matt: but it takes place in Texas
[00:12:57] Fawn: It takes place in Texas. And it's very stereotypical Texan family, I guess, except for they have this little boy who is not a typical Texan. And one day he started talking about wabi-sabi. What was that? He had a plant, he was growing a plant
[00:13:12] Matt: again, atypical.
He was growing a rose for a
competition.
[00:13:16] Fawn: Oh my goodness. He's the wabi-sabi. Bobby Hill is wabi-sabi
[00:13:22] Matt: well,
and that's fair. So he was trying to grow a rose for competition, and then his dad got all involved and then there was a smoke shop involved because they supplied lights and things for the flowers.
Yeah,
[00:13:37] Fawn: but they
keep what?
[00:13:38] Matt: but they keep kind of referencing he's really growing marijuana, even though he really isn't, which is truly funny.
[00:13:43] Fawn: And this
show was years ago before the legalization of marijuana in America. But let's give our audience some description of the dad. The dad is very stereotypical Texan.
[00:13:55] Matt: He played high school football.
[00:13:57] Fawn: Yeah. He's very conservative. He wants men to be men. And he wants women to be women. Like he's very, he's very
[00:14:05] Matt: tight
He does loosen up over the course of the show,
[00:14:07] Fawn: but the show ran for many years. Is it still going?
No,
it stopped.
[00:14:11] Matt: Unfortunately it ended.
I remember how it ended years ago. Yeah. It was not happy.
[00:14:15] Fawn: Right. Didn't they kill off like major character, whatever. I don't know. It doesn't matter. I digress once again, but so, you know, the dad is very strict and he's just very conservative and his son is not into sports. He's very philosophical. He's a little girly. He's he has, uh, uh, actually they were way ahead of their time.
He's actually a well-balanced human being.
[00:14:44] Matt: Yes.
[00:14:44] Fawn: He carries the yin and
yang with him.
[00:14:46] Matt: Well, he definitely knows. He's very connected to his inner Popeye.
[00:14:50] Fawn: Yes. He knows who he is. He knows his superstar.
[00:14:54] Matt: I would say that he's just not hyper-masculine, it's just his interests and his desires aren't in line with his father's definition of what masculine is.
[00:15:06] Fawn: He's a human, he is a hundred percent a human being and he doesn't care what others think. And remember that episode where he was. Did his dad want him to study wrestling, but he ended up going to another class and he studied, he was
[00:15:23] Matt: getting bullied and his father wanted him to fight back.
And so he started to teach him how to box, because that's how you, that's, how it's done. That was in his mind, how it was done,
[00:15:34] Fawn: how to fight like a man.
[00:15:35] Matt: And so he gave up and he said, go take a self-defense class at the YMCA. So he ends up in a women's self-defense class, where he learns how to
defend himself in more of a Krav Maga format, which is you make use of whatever your opponent, all of your opponent's weak spots.
[00:15:52] Fawn: And part of it is you say whatever you have to say, you do whatever you have to do. And so we have lines in our family, like we'll just recite lines from our favorite shows, our favorite movies.
And one of them is from Bobby Hill that always cracks us up, which is the way he says: "I don't know you!" Like, he's he yells this at an attacker. He goes, "I don't know you that's my purse."
[00:16:19] Matt: And
then he attacks.
[00:16:22] Fawn: But like, he'll say that line. Didn't he say that line in an actual attack? It wasn't a
[00:16:26] Matt: class he did, but again, in, I think in women's self defense at that moment in time, I don't know what it looks like now, but it's about letting your attacker know that you're not
afraid of them.
[00:16:38] Fawn: And also you're not afraid to look
[00:16:41] Matt: and get you're gathering your power, as you're saying this,
[00:16:43] Fawn: you're
not afraid to look crazy. You're not afraid to look any way or you're not afraid to sound any way.
[00:16:51] Matt: You're just, you're not sounding like a victim
at that point.
[00:16:54] Fawn: You don't care what someone else thinks.
So therefore he would just yell. I don't know you that's my purse. So you, you make that loud statement, so people know something is happening.
So going back to the wabi-sabi and how we found out what Bobby Bobby would wabi-sabi rhymes with Bobby actually means.
So he's growing this rose and his dad comes along and what happens,
honey?
[00:17:21] Matt: The dad reads the, all the, rules and regulations and how roses are judged. And it turns out is hyper-specific hyper serious. There is an absolute definition of a best rose and Hank takes over his child. Even though Bobby is saying, wouldn't it be fun if we did this?
Wouldn't it be cool. And, and the dad's like, we can't do that because, you know, you won't win.
[00:17:47] Fawn: And
[00:17:49] Matt: hyper focused on winning. Whereas Bobby is more interested in the experience, and he's okay with winning or not winning. And then finally at the end, Hank does something and he screws up one of the interior pedals.
My God do I know these things anyways. Or something happens to one of the interior pedals of this rose. And then Hank goes in with Clippers to quote unquote fix it. But he leaves a tell and then as it's getting judged, they notice it and he's like, But what about the Wabi Sabi?
[00:18:22] Fawn: No, but
[00:18:23] Matt: he Hank recoils into trying to use that as a defense of this rose,
[00:18:28] Fawn: but it was Bobby Bobby who told him about wabi-sabi initially.
And then later on, the dad embraces
[00:18:36] Matt: wabi-sabi hides behind it in point of fact, in
[00:18:39] Fawn: my mind. Wait, who hides behind it?
[00:18:41] Matt: Hank,
[00:18:42] Fawn: no, but like, I remember watching the show and little Bobby was saying, but it's wabi-sabi. And my ears perked up. I'm like, what is that? Is it, uh, what is that? And so he explained this is beautiful.
This flower is beautiful because it has wabi-sabi. It is not perfectly symmetrical that there's beauty in this rare being. There's beauty in this, normally asymmetrical way. It makes it unique. It's beautiful this way. And his dad was like, Nope, it needs to be perfectly this way. Right. To be judged and to be,
[00:19:20] Matt: to win,
[00:19:20] Fawn: to win.
Right. And so, so friends, that's how we found out about wabi-sabi.
[00:19:25] Matt: Well,
that's how Fawn out about
[00:19:28] Fawn: stop it. Did
[00:19:29] Matt: you really? Oh my goodness.
[00:19:34] Fawn: But, you know, you can learn fascinating things everywhere.
[00:19:37] Matt: Well, that's just, it, I think the whole point is, one of the aspects of wabi-sabi is looking for beauty, everywhere and the most mundane objects in, you know, the, the moment. And there are certain ways that are quote unquote accepted and certain ways that aren't. Like in point of fact, if you were crazy, like me and wake up super early, there is like a five minute span, if I look out the window. When the sun is rising, it is so... it was so beautiful the other day, five minutes. And that's all it was. And like the sky had the rest of it was on it. Well, it's just the sun's rising. It's just, it's, you know, a flashlight coming up on some level versus this just moment of, you know, the pink hues were melding with the white, gray clouds.
We're melding with the blue sky. It was, it was, it was picturesque. It was beautiful. And then it's gone. So it's very transitory.
[00:20:31] Fawn: Yeah. So speaking of transitory, when I've had to work on the past month, month and a half has been, you know, I like things, Matt says I'm OCD. Like I like things. Perfect. Our wall of herbal jars all have to, every jar has to face.
Exactly so like everything has to face exactly.
[00:20:53] Matt: Oh, you know
[00:20:55] Fawn: what? Stop it, stop it. But like, I like things to be beautiful. And I do appreciate wabi-sabi. I do appreciate asymmetry, but I make the asymmetry happen. Everything has to be just right. And everything has a home in our home. And the past two months, I want to say it's been more than a month and a half,
we've been living, surrounded with boxes because I'm like enough, we're moving, we're moving. I'm just going to start packing. So little by little, I started packing and I would hide the boxes from Matt because I don't want him to stress out. Matt doesn't like change. So it got to a point where I couldn't hide the boxes.
And it also got to a point where I just can't take it anymore. Like I want to move. I want the life that I want for us. I want to live already that life. And so now everything is boxed up except for our wall of Joe. Well, you know what? 80% of the jars are packed, but you still have a wall of jars. our food isn't totally packed and our clothes, most of our clothes are not packed.
Everything is packed guys, everything. So we're surrounded with boxes and it doesn't look pretty. And I've had to get my mind around looking at how beautiful it is and it's in it's way. So the beauty of the transitory, like literally, like I have to find beauty in this apartment where all the magical things have come off the walls.
There's no, like it's just boxes basically. And finding beauty in that. And then also, I always talk to you guys about the Nicomachean ethics, knowing who your friends are, knowing the people that come into your life. What kind of friend is that? And coming to terms with it as early as possible so you don't get heartbroken.
But with me, when I meet someone I love. So much. And I think this is the one, much like before Matt, any guy that came up that resembled what I thought Matt was like, I was looking for Matt since I was born. I was like, I found him, yay. I found him I'm in love. We're going to get married. And it was not it at all.
But, and then, you know, heartbreak and confusion set in all that stuff over and over and over again. And the thing with friendship is kind of the same way with me. I open myself up. I I'm like this is that this is family right here. This is, this is my sister. This is my brother we're family. And then sure enough, something happens and you're like, wow, no, this person doesn't care for me as much as I care for them.
And. It's seriously, a pain that you feel in your heart. If you allow for that feeling to be, if you're honest with yourself and you try to feel what your body feels like with all these emotions, all these feelings. It is painful. It is a physical pain, and that's what I've been going through the past couple of weeks.
Again, again, coming to terms with the people that I thought were my besties really don't consider me in that same vein. For them is something totally different. And I knew all the signs, but I ignored all the signs. I ignored it. I thought, well, they're busy. They're going through their stuff. It's okay that they forgot about this major, major thing that's happened. A few major things that have happened. It's okay that they never ask about it. They're probably preoccupied, but too many things happened and, and they sense it too. Like they sense you sensing these things. So then conflict arises and that's why I'm also doing the show today is it's all wabi-sabi.
You have to get to a point where you can see the beauty of it all. Even the beauty of a friend turning ugly on you. A friend leaving because nothing lasts forever. Getting to a place where you can appreciate what they offered you in life, what they brought to life and just remembering that.
And also remembering of course, Hey, they also, did A, B, and C, which was not cool. But not holding onto it forever. You know what I'm saying? And I think for me, that's how I'm choosing to look at wabi-sabi and friendship. How do you equate wabi-sabi and friendship? How do you pull it together, Matt?
But when I asked you, I'm like, do you think we'll ever find any friends, like for a real in the future and you said
[00:25:40] Matt: no.
No, I didn't say no. I said, I said, no, for me, I didn't say
[00:25:45] Fawn: no for you yet. That's what I mean. And that made me so sad. And then I was like, you know what, me too, that me too. I'm never making any more friends again.
I'm good. We're just going to find, make sure that Elle and Allegra have friends
[00:26:01] Matt: no, it's, it's literally, until I can get myself into that naivete mindset you know, that saying, you know, love, like you've never been hurt, dance like no one's watching, you have to be in that mindset and you have to let it go.
You have to open your heart.
[00:26:16] Fawn: I don't know if I want to anymore.
[00:26:17] Matt: Well,
that's what everybody says, the instant they get broken up with, or, but you know, your, your own habits creep up. For me, you know? Friends with me as a very slow process. I have people who are in my life, who I've known for years, that I still have this acquaintance kind of thing, because there is a certain rigor to it.
There is a certain distancing to it. There is. And it's, it's everybody just being careful. It's. I Think. And, it's not until we can truly let that go, that, friendship can truly truly happen. You know, I'm involved in their lives. I hear about what's going on with their lives. One of my friends actually, her daughter is getting married today and then she's having back surgery.
So it's not like, I don't know what's going on in their lives. And we stay in touch with each other and we constantly not constantly, but we call each other frequently but I'm not completely emotionally invested.
[00:27:17] Fawn: Okay. So I can see that.
[00:27:19] Matt: And there's still a beauty in it.
[00:27:22] Fawn: Absolutely. There's a great, um, what's the word when you have, when you exercise great restraints, you, you master yourself and your actions.
There is great discipline. That's the word I was looking for. There is great disciplinein, in forming connections and friendships like that. Like that. I mean, by, by doing it slowly, I'm not slow in anything. I am like a flee that's like, boin boing boing boing boing! I'm like a golden retriever dog. Uh, middle Eastern version. So maybe a chocolate Labrador, Labrador.
What do you call those dogs? A dark one chocolate chocolate, but you know, like a lab, um, I'm a, I'm a dog, I'm a dog that sniffs you from miles away and then starts running towards you. I'll jump on you and lick you and tell you how much I love you, because I recognize you. I recognize your spirit and I have no qualms about like letting you know upfront within that instant we meet where the heck have you been?
I've been looking for you my entire life, come on, you know, and then later realizing the person is not feeling it. Do you know what I'm saying? But it'll take a while. And it's heartbreaking for me because I am in it. I am like, I will be your best friend. I will be there except I don't like to pick you up from the airport.
Please. Don't ask me that. I don't like to do that. Please get an Uber or something. But one of the things I really love about my friendship with Wendy is she took command. Cause I was like, I was like ready to jump on her and like lick her and go. And I did, I, I told, you know, I mean, lick like metaphorically, I'm not talking about for real, you know what I'm saying?
I'm just saying, but like I told her immediately and it also. Also because you, Matt very rarely, really like someone from the very beginning, like you can always send people and you will just be quiet. Like I'll make a bunch of friends and you're just quiet. Like you won't say anything anymore. And in that silence, I can tell, oh, Matt doesn't really there's.
Matt has picked up some signs, but I ignore it. I'm like, no, everything's wonderful. I love this person. And then later on like, like the way you're looking right now, he, he, his lips disappear. Like he, he doesn't want to speak and his eyebrows go up. Like I told you that, that, that, no, your lips disappear. He's trying to,
[00:30:05] Matt: I'm trying to push my lips out and lower my eyebrows.
So I look really freaky,
[00:30:11] Fawn: but what I love about my friendship with Wendy is she took control. She with her mastery, she, she. Do I say pruned, what's the right word. She, she tended our friendship in such a way that it took forever little by little, for us to get closer and closer. And I'm just marveling in our friendship and it's still growing.
Do you know what I'm saying? And it's quite beautiful. It feels like home, but as far as. Um, Matt, you usually like no, instantly, like I remember you met one of my friends in Santa Monica and you had a word for her that terrified me. You just said one word. I don't know if it's one word or two. Is it hyphenated?
I don't know. But you said no, it's one word you said all you said to me in regards to this friend was freight train. And I was terrified because I knew you long enough to know that you're incredibly observant and you see things like, and I'm like, no way, man, you are so wrong and sure enough, like later on as time passed, you were absolutely right.
And I don't know, you have such a gift for recognizing immediately, but as soon as you saw Wendy, you were like I love her,
And you chose those words. I don't think he used the word love, but you just, you, you immediately, as soon as
[00:31:46] Matt: I think I said, she's good people,
[00:31:48] Fawn: but you said she is one that we're going to have in our life. You said something, I don't remember your exact words, but that was what you said.
Do you know what I'm saying? That is what you were implying. Like she's the one she's good. She's she's great. She's incredible. And so that's our friendship with Wendy, but yeah, so I have to take it slow, but I can't, I just, it's not my nature. I
[00:32:15] Matt: don't. How long were we friends before we started dating?
[00:32:21] Fawn: I had no idea what was happening. That was the only way that I was going to work. Oh my God, you, you pull the Wendy on me. That's true. Yeah,
[00:32:30] Matt: that's true. I would say Wendy pulled a Matt on you.
[00:32:34] Fawn: Yeah. All right. I dislike not being in control. I just want to be a dog. I just want to frolic and go. Yeah, I love you.
Why can't you just love me back? Gosh, that's painful out here.
So now I'm feeling raw all over again. Can you take over the conversation for a little bit until I calm down? I'm going to take a
[00:33:01] Matt: second. Okay. So let's go back to wabi-sabi cause we should, after all it is the, kind of the name of the show. So this is interesting. Something I hadn't really contemplated before, but one of the key, well, not key, but one of the elements of Zen Buddhism is the tea ceremony
and if you really think about it, I mean, it's a very ritualized stylized. You pour this way. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's kind of a perfect ceremony
[00:33:28] Fawn: as describe it for some countries or some people who don't know what the tea ceremony actually is.
[00:33:35] Matt: There's a
whole process behind getting the charcoal out and putting it and lighting it and actually putting the water in the tea pot, putting the tea in the tea pot on
[00:33:48] Fawn: and on it's like poetry, right?
Every word has an intent. Every, every motion, every motion means something
[00:33:57] Matt: quote, unquote tea master, this would be somebody who practices for a long time. It is said that they leave no opening.
[00:34:03] Fawn: What does that mean?
[00:34:04] Matt: It just, well, this is how somebody like a samurai would judge, like there is no place to quote unquote attack.
There is no flaw in their, you know, in their performance, isn't the right word, but their execution. You know, the tea ceremony, there
[00:34:20] Fawn: is no flaw in
their movements.
[00:34:21] Matt: There is no flaw in their movement. So not unlike again, we'd like to talk about, I like to talk about Zen archery is a similar thing where it's a very ritualized in the whole thing, but what's interesting is, the tea ceremony actually takes its roots from monks who were, who would drink tea before they would meditate and they would do this to help them stay awake.
'cause I guess they drank the caffeinated tea, which is like, there's a lot of discrepancies going on because I wouldn't assume I could get into that alpha meditative state if my blood pressure has gone crazy because I've had a lot of caffeine, but welcome to it. But that is one that is like the root of the tea ceremony actually comes from monks who are just attempting to meditate for longer periods.
Which I thought was fascinating. But again, if you look at it, why is, why is this wabi-sabi, I'm talking about perfection and perfection and perfection. Yes. But transient, because at some point the tea gets cold. At some point, you pack it up and all of a sudden now this whole ritualized quote unquote performance is over.
So it can be as perfect as perfect can be, but it ends. And it's that understanding of that ending that maybe hopefully makes you appreciate it even more.
[00:35:47] Fawn: So
slowing down and appreciating every movement, appreciating what it is; being completely immersed in what you're doing and nothing else, but putting all your intention in the
beauty of the moment.
[00:36:02] Matt: Exactly. And, you know, there's all kinds of different stories or thoughts that start to like tweak your head. And another one is you can never step into the exact same spot of a river. Because the river is constantly changing and then all of a sudden you're like, whoa, but wait, I can never, I can never come this way again because it will never be, you know, um, January 36
of this year and the weather will never be quite like this again, et cetera, et cetera. There is a transient nature to everything we do.
[00:36:36] Fawn: Don't you find that that's key to our relationships. That's key to raising children that it's key to being a partner in a marriage. That's key to being a family member is you can never hold someone to what you think they are.
They are never the same river. You should expect to be pleasantly or not, not pleasantly. You just should, you should just expect that you don't know this person because every day is opening another gift. Like it's not the same person. And if we see that, then we're not, um, it's not stale because you are able to witness
the evolution of everything around you. You're able to witness the evolution of every human being around you.
[00:37:27] Matt: Exactly. I always say we have to afford the people in our lives, the opportunity to grow,
[00:37:34] Fawn: to transform. And some, it seems like most of them don't, and they're very specific about how they're transforming and it may not be in sync with your transformation.
[00:37:46] Matt: Yes, but that is almost entire, that's usually the case,
[00:37:50] Fawn: but if you really, really love this person, and I want to say it's a number three and the number three in the Nicomachean is like, you love them no matter what that love will keep going, because within that love really the root of it is compassion.
And respect like there are people in our lives that I don't respect, and I don't want anything to do with them, but out of obligation, like I'm thinking about certain family members, um, I have to keep talking to them, but there's no connection for me. Like I don't have that respect. So my love isn't totally there for that.
Right.
[00:38:34] Matt: Right. And it's, it's when it, isn't, it's really hard to see how, or if they're growing. Cause it feels like they're not. And maybe that has a lot to do with one of the aspects of the wabi-sabi in my mind, a friendship is you're an open book. So as you're growing, you know, anytime I discover anything cool, I want to share it.
Especially with my friends, especially with people who love me, especially with the people I love. And that's very, very difficult to do in cases where it feels like an obligation. So it indeed looks like neither side is growing because neither side is willing to expose themselves to the vulnerability of growth.
[00:39:13] Fawn: And, , in terms of what you just said I do the same thing. As soon as I find something or I remember something that's really cool and, and beneficial. I want to share it and I share. And I noticed with certain quote-unquote friends, all they do is take, take, take, take, take, they never share their stuff.
And I'm like, wow, are they friends with me? Because they're getting stuff. And the answer is yes. And that's the predicament. Right.
[00:39:43] Matt: And it also may be that they're afraid of looking foolish or cause every once in a while I'll share something with you and you're like, Oh, it makes me feel a little small
sometimes.
[00:39:53] Fawn: I'm sorry. I shouldn't say that. All right. I should, I should say it back the way I used it. Well, be, you know why? Because sometimes you, the way you, your tone is with me, Matt, it's like, sometimes you're shocked that I know some information, like some college level.
[00:40:14] Matt: Oh my God. You know, that chocolate comes from a bean?.
[00:40:18] Fawn: And you, you can sound in your tone. Very, what's the word I'm looking for? Condescending and I, and you know what, I think you only did this once or twice, but that's sting has stuck with me the whole time. So that's why I react the way I do. Like I already knew that
where really the way it should come out is I know, right? Yeah. Totally different tone. Right. As opposed to I know that. Right. So, but, but as far as sharing stuff, I think that people don't share because they feel like they're losing stuff. It's like money. It feels like they don't want to share the money.
Like
[00:41:05] Matt: if you don't want to spend my currency.
[00:41:06] Fawn: Yeah. Because it's going to take away from them. So they don't share stuff that's happening in their families with me. They don't share. Information, they learn about what we're working on. Like, I have friends that, you know, it seems like we're working on the same kind of projects and I'll share whatever I learned
that's like gold. I'm like, oh my God guys look at what I just found. And they're like, oh great. But they never do that with me. They keep it to themselves. And that hurts my feelings. Like after a while, when it happens over and over again, I'm like, huh.
[00:41:43] Matt: Well, that's why I'm generally pretty. Um, yeah.
Quid pro quo ish
[00:41:50] Fawn: bye Kush. Um, Matt just made, uh, sorry,
[00:41:53] Matt: close. Let's say closed up.
[00:41:55] Fawn: He made an X with his arms to protect his chest. Like. Like
[00:41:59] Matt: anyways, I'm pretty closed up and, you know, it's, it's, it's a very interesting thing, unless like this thing I know is like so cool and eminently obvious, I will typically, I'm very careful about how I Dole out the things I think are cool.
Like I just, I just found this really cool new tool for development. So of course I had to share it with one of my programming friends. It's just kind of how it goes.
[00:42:25] Fawn: And with me, I'm going to just keep doing what I'm doing, because I know that it's energetic. I'm going to keep sharing what I'm sharing, because obviously it came to me from some source.
So something out there shared it with me. So I'm going to accept that this particular friend quote, unquote friend right now, I'm saying it that way. Cause I'm mad, but you know that this person. Does that. And I just appreciate that, like, huh? Look at that. That's how they are. I appreciate that. You know what I mean?
And still love it. Right. But recognize, okay. That's not a family member. That's not in by family member. What I mean is that is not my inner circle, soul friend, my soul family. Right. You're not in my circle. Right. So I appreciate that. And I can see the beauty in that and let it go. It's hard though. I gotta tell you it's hard.
You have yourself believe otherwise. And then the world shows you this person is really not in your circle the way you think they are. Right. And that's okay. That's beautiful. It's just part of, and sometimes
[00:43:37] Matt: the wabi-sabi
and flit out. So in a transitory manner.
[00:43:41] Fawn: Yeah. Yeah. And you just recognize that as beautiful it's transitory right there, floating in the wind.
Right.
[00:43:50] Matt: Absolutely. Yeah. I had a two perfect quote unquote, perfect summers, before I turned 18 and they were perfect for different reasons and it was just, but it's a summer, it ends.
[00:44:02] Fawn: And so as something as something as always beginning, indeed, always. So when our friendship ends or situation ends look around and see the beauty in that perfection, because there is no void in nature. Things are always in motion. As long as there's breath, there is always motion. There's always the life. Even, even when we think the breath is no longer there.
There is still a life that we may not see from our perspective, but everything is constantly transforming.
[00:44:42] Matt: Yes.
[00:44:43] Fawn: A few episodes back. We decided not to use the word change rather transform.
so going back to the four things:
accept things as they are, and as they come. accept the friend as they are, and as they come.
Appreciate your life, where it is now and work towards your goals, appreciate your friends, your friendship, where it is now and work towards your goals. All right.
So in my case, I'll use myself as an example. This is not the friendship I thought it was. I appreciate it. I appreciate the friendship that it is, or was. And I'm going to have the goal of meeting family, the friends that are family. That's my goal, but I appreciate. What I have.
Strive for excellence, but don't get caught up in perfection.
Sounds good, right? No, one's going to be perfect. I'm looking for that soulmate friendship. A bunch of them, not only for myself, but for Matt and the kids, but I'm not going to get caught up in a list of points that I'm looking for. I don't know how else to describe this. Maybe you can a checklist. Oh, well, yeah.
Okay. And then the last one is
Live your perfect life with all its precious imperfections.
Sounds good to me.
What do you. Yeah, I just said, it sounds good to me. No, I'm not talking to you. I'm talking to our, our, our family out there. What do you think, please let me know, please, please go to our friendly world podcast.com. Go to our friendly word podcast.com. Leave us a message. Talk to me, schedule me or, or Matt, of course.
Can we schedule a zoom together?. I want to talk to you. I want to see you guys. I don't want to go on Facebook. Everyone's telling me you should start a group, but I don't want to go on Facebook or whatever it's called. I don't want it. What other way can we get together? The only way I can think of is, can you please email us by going to our website, click on contact us.
And that gets to my personal email. And we can schedule a group, but can we start a group? Let's start a group, please email us there are things for you there. If you would like to donate to our show, that would be amazing. But please, this is for real, I mean, we're doing this to create family.
Reach out to us. Okay. All right. I'm smiling. Love is winning. Yes. Love is winning. yeah, there's a lot going on out there in the world. It feels like everything is feeling way hyperintense and just when we think, wow, it can't get any worse. There's more intensity coming up.
The key is to. Form form family form friendships, and know that together we can create a beautiful utopia, a beautiful world, a beautiful family. That's what we're here for. We'll talk to you soon. Loving you. Thank you for listening.
[00:48:01] Matt: Be well.
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