Episode Transcript
The Reality Bubble!
[00:00:00] FAWN: Welcome back, everybody. We have Dr. Cathia Walters here with us. I was telling Dr. C I was 19 years old working at the camera store. You all know this story from listening to the podcast before.
[00:00:12] FAWN: For 19 years of my life, I thought these things right here were EYEBULBS EYE BULBS. I was working at the camera store one day, and this woman was like, Well, what's the difference between this lens and that lens? And I said to her, very confidently, Well, it's like having different, like, all of a sudden, taking these, EYEBULBS like, off your head and putting a different one in that sees differently.
[00:00:39] FAWN: I didn't know it was eyeball. I thought it was eye bulb. For 19 years of my life. And it was such a rude awakening because her reaction was, I mean... Unkind? It wasn't that she was unkind, it was just that, she was so... What do you mean? You think these are bulbs?
[00:01:01] FAWN: You mean your eyeball? Like, I don't know, she was very aggressive. Wow. She was very aggressive in, in correcting me. Wow, let's
[00:01:09] MATT: just go out of our way to make you feel bad about yourself.
[00:01:12] FAWN: Well done. No, but she, no, it wasn't that. It was just, she was shocked. You know, like, like what, I don't know, and then I was shocked.
[00:01:20] FAWN: And to this day, I'm like... Oh my goodness, I, why did I, did I not read Eyeball when I was reading books? I don't know. But anyway, welcome back, Dr. C. Hello,
[00:01:34] DR. Walters: everybody. Hello. Hello. Hello, hello. Good
[00:01:40] MATT: afternoon, good evening, good night. Good evening, good
[00:01:42] DR. Walters: night, wherever you are.
[00:01:45] FAWN: It's not just me though.
[00:01:46] FAWN: Like, obviously, I thought they were light bulbs, but, like, with, phrases, like, our friends have phrases, a long time ago, my friends would say, oh, he's off the chain. I heard it as, his chain is loose, like, he has a lot of chain,
[00:02:07] DR. Walters: and where are those chains?
[00:02:09] DR. Walters: Well,
[00:02:09] FAWN: and I, and I, And I imagined, oh, it must be like being a dog that's, running after you, but he's on a chain, but there's lots of chain to be had so he can still get you. And so I said, oh, his chain is loose. He has lots of loose chain. And my friend, after a while, finally just said, what are you saying, Fawn?
[00:02:34] FAWN: It's... He's off the chain. Like, he's off he's not on the chain at all. He's off of it. You know, just stuff like that. I love having a friend that's also maybe, like, me. Like, am I the only one who gets things wrong? Like, for the longest time, my friend I was telling her about my lightbulb story.
[00:02:55] FAWN: And she's like, well, forever. You know that song, uh, with the lyrics? You spin me around, like a record. , it says, um, how does it go you guys? You spin me. Oh, careful. You spin me right round, baby. Baby, right round. Like a record, baby, right round, round, round. And so my friend forever thought that these were the lyrics, and she went around telling everyone forever.
[00:03:26] FAWN: And I think she was in her 20s when she was finally corrected, like me. It's never like, it's never like an easy correction either, cause you're shocked. Right. You're completely shocked by it. So her version that she heard in her head was... You give me white rum, baby, white rum, like a wretched baby, white rum, rum, rum.
[00:03:50] FAWN: And that's, and she was very little, by the way. She was a little kid when this song came out. And so as a little girl, she would go singing this wretched baby song. Nice. And she, she told me that she sang it for her dad and his friends. And they were blown away and her dad was so proud, he's like, that's my kid.
[00:04:13] FAWN: I'm like, yeah, because those lyrics are way better than the other one. Well they're certainly more intricate. They're amazing, like for, like, I think she was six or something, for a six year old to come up with that. Like a wretched baby. Like a wretched, she didn't even know what wretched meant. I think she looked it up, she's like, oh, wow.
[00:04:31] FAWN: You know. But anyway, that's what this episode is about today, is how we hear each other. What happens when individuals or groups even, groups of people observe different experiences, realities, even just hearing things or seeing things. How can we communicate with each other when we all have different perspectives?
[00:04:56] FAWN: I used to work for the Aveda Corporation, and Horst would, Do these amazing talks. Before there were TED Talks, he would talk about how I'm speaking to you and he was talking to this crowd of like maybe a thousand people and he always said, I'm speaking to you but no one is hearing what I'm saying.
[00:05:15] FAWN: Every single one of you is hearing something different than what I'm actually saying; what's actually coming out of my mouth. Because everyone has different experiences. And based on your own experiences, you hear and see things based on those experiences. So no one hears the same thing, no one sees the same thing,
[00:05:38] FAWN: you're hearing from your own filtered perspective, is what he would say. And I always thought about that. So, how can we communicate with each other with all these different perspectives? This episode is on the art of hearing. From lyrics, to songs, to phrases, I want to talk about the Mandela effect that now a lot of people are talking about.
[00:06:02] FAWN: And how even our conversations can be understood, or misunderstood, understood differently based on our personal history. How do we perceive each other? How do we distinguish between friendships and enemies? Because that's, again, I think, sometimes you can see it differently. You can see someone as, A friend that's actually not a good friend to you.
[00:06:26] FAWN: There are signs. Do we ignore these signs? How do our brains react to people? Dr. C talks to us about how your brain understands things or perceives things differently. And what do we choose to perceive? And what do we choose to delete? Is there a way to achieve a stable and objective constant. That is what we're gonna talk about today. So, Dr. C, a lot of people have been talking about the Mandela Effect, for example. Like, I want to get into how our brains work and how, how all this is happening. For example, I guess, would it be zeitgeist, Matt? Like, is it a zeitgeisty thing that everyone's talking about the Mandela Effect?
[00:07:14] FAWN: Like, for example, Everyone knows the Queen song, We Are The Champions. It says, we are the champions, we are the champions. And the last bit is of the world, but if you now listen to all the songs that are everywhere, I haven't listened to a CD from years ago, but, or a record, but, the world is taken out.
[00:07:38] FAWN: Completely. And it sounds like someone Remastered it and took the world and all he says is we are the champions of the But no world and then I was with the kids. I was telling the kids. I'm like guys listen to this I mean, are we in some sort of society now much like Was it Stalin man?
[00:08:01] FAWN: Stalin was how he would photoshop before there was Photoshop. He would take people out of history. He would
[00:08:07] MATT: take party leaders out of pictures. Just, bzoop,
[00:08:10] FAWN: gone. People would disappear, he would change
[00:08:13] MATT: history. And this was like the 1930s, 40s.
[00:08:15] FAWN: So like, you never, like you never saw this.
[00:08:18] FAWN: This person was never here. So I was in the car, with the kids, I'm like, Guys, is this what's happening again? Cause look, and then we were listening to, I think it was Tears for Fears, Everybody wants to rule the world. Remember that song? Is it Tears for Fears? Everybody wants to rule the world.
[00:08:37] FAWN: And once again, world was taken out. What is happening? And then more of the Mandela effect. Like, it's everything like, Field of Dreams, right? We all think, "build it and they will come". But, I guess it's not, that's not what was said. , "build it and he will come". And then there's also, Forrest Gump.
[00:09:01] FAWN: The lines there are different than we remember. Well, to be
[00:09:04] MATT: fair, I used to, I used to. I don't anymore because my god, I'm wrong. But, um, Princess Bride quotes. I used to quote the Princess Bride. No, I wasn't quoting the Princess Bride. I was quoting Matt's version of the Princess Bride and every single quote was wrong.
[00:09:20] MATT: Every single, and I was like, I had timing, I had everything, long bits, and then I watched the movie again and I was like, oh my god, I'm wrong on everything except for inconceivable, because you can't be wrong on that because it's one word, but, my
[00:09:36] FAWN: god. But like, do you guys remember Ed McMahon and the Publisher's Clearing House?
[00:09:41] FAWN: Yes. Didn't Ed McMahon go with a big check to people's houses? Apparently he never did.
[00:09:49] DR. Walters: I think what we saw, at least what I saw, was him standing up with a big check whether or not he went to people's houses. I think that was the impression, right? Right. That he would show up at people's doors with cameras.
[00:10:02] FAWN: Apparently he never did that.
[00:10:04] DR. Walters: So it was all staged.
[00:10:07] FAWN: But then if you look at certain shows back then, they had him as a guest, actor . He would show up with a big check at people's doors. So why would he do that? I'm just wondering are we just misunderstanding things like not remembering or Have things been changed Or have
[00:10:28] MATT: we been have we been subtly manipulated maybe by Saturday Night Live skits and You know, our own friends misleading
[00:10:37] FAWN: us.
[00:10:38] FAWN: Or like, remember that game, Telephone? Where you would whisper something to someone's ear, and it would have to go down the line of friends. And then the last friend who heard it would recite whatever they heard. And it was totally different than what the first person said. Do you guys think it's like that?
[00:10:57] FAWN: Or is it something sinister?
[00:11:00] DR. Walters: I don't know if I would think it's something sinister. I think it's filters, right? I think, I think it's a combination of different things. I think there's a point where we hear what we want to hear based on what we're experiencing in the moment. Right? Right. And I'm going to filter it based that way.
[00:11:21] DR. Walters: So, I start a conversation based on where I'm at and what I think I want Fawn to hear. Right? And where Fawn is, based on her experience in the moment, she's going to hear and take the pieces that make sense for her based on where she is. Mm hmm. And by the time she then passes on to Matt, she's passing on her version of what she heard.
[00:11:43] DR. Walters: Right. Because it went through her filter. So what Matt is getting is a combination of mine and Fawn's, but through Fawn's filter. And then Matt, of course, is in his, you know, wherever he's at in the moment. He's going to take that in, and he's going to filter and receive what he needs to receive. Not just verbally, right?
[00:12:05] DR. Walters: Because there's also the nuances, the body language. What is her eyes saying? What is her body saying? Based on what I'm interpreting, meaning what Matt is interpreting that to be. Right. And so based on what he's looking at, what he's hearing, where he's at in that moment, just like Fawn, right, everything is going to be re communicated that way.
[00:12:31] DR. Walters: Right. So by the time you get to the end of the telephone line, it's passed through, you know, there's four, five, six of us, it's passed through five or six people's, stories, experiences, worldview. Right. Based on, again, not just the verbal, what they're hearing, but what they're observing. So then it comes back to me as the initiator, and I'm with this look on my face like, That's not what I said.
[00:12:58] DR. Walters: Right? Right. There may be like an element of truth in there. Right? But the words are totally different. You know, the content sometimes has drastically changed. Right? But there's still a, you know, there's still always that kernel of truth, right? But everything else, and I think when we think about, like, the Mandela Effect in terms of, you know, how do you get a group of people to believe something, right?
[00:13:26] DR. Walters: And I think some of that is hope. Maybe it's something that's true, that we hope is true, right? Maybe it's something that we fear will happen, and now we hear it and we're like, Oh my God, my worst nightmare is true. It's come true. Right, so I really do think, I don't necessarily think it's intentional, I think a lot of it is on an unconscious level, you know, and we hear things, we interpret things, for our own sanity sometimes, right?
[00:13:57] DR. Walters: And then the brain, because of how it's structured, is just gonna then like, okay, how do I protect her? How do I protect him? You know, because if this is some bad stuff, I need to figure out a way that it's not as painful. Right?
[00:14:12] MATT: So let's filter. Right, and or how do I take this new piece of information that I was given and sift it into my reality too?
[00:14:20] MATT: Exactly. Especially if it's very challenging. Well, um, long time, long time ago now, I worked in a warehouse for a summer and that made me decide that there was no way that this was something I wanted to do forever. Uh, it's nice and easy. But one day, one of the guys I was working with mentioned that he had a friend who was a vegetarian.
[00:14:41] MATT: Doesn't sound like a big deal. One of the forklift drivers could not accept into his reality that there were people out there who did not eat any meat. And so he said, yeah, but vegetarians eat meat. And he would not let go of that. And just would not let go of it. And, you know, I was like, oh, okay, yeah, no, no, no, you're right.
[00:15:01] MATT: Because there's no point arguing it out with somebody who is that firmly entrenched, that uncomfortable with that fact. And that's one of those things that you can just point to because it's not me, I can be more objective about it. And say, wow, that's unbelievable how people do that. But I, I think that that, I'm guessing that's because we have an expert today.
[00:15:23] MATT: But I'm guessing that's one of the ways that like our brains protect us.
[00:15:27] DR. Walters: Mm hmm. Absolutely. Absolutely. Wait,
[00:15:30] FAWN: what if he got a load of you now? Like, now you're vegan. You've been vegan for a long time. Uh huh. Yes. Like, vegan would have, like, made him collapse.
[00:15:39] MATT: It would, you know what? It was actually funny. I actually, ChatGPT, you know, the big AI program?
[00:15:45] MATT: It was like, I got it to write, Vegans who sometimes eat meat. There are, there are vegans who sometimes eat meat. That's not a vegan. It's not a vegan. Yes. But chat, G p t constructed this blurb where it described why that, well, why that happens and why that's a good thing. It's, it's a weird thing and think of, I think of chat g p t less as this kind of uber mind, but I think of it very zeitgeisty and it pulls from everywhere it can and so it tries to pull in all of society and as it constructs these things.
[00:16:18] MATT: So, yeah, I found that bizarre.
[00:16:22] DR. Walters: But I, I think to your point in terms of how, our brain tries to support us, protects us, helps us, I think that makes a lot of sense, right? If something is uncomfortable, we don't want to deal with it. Right. If it creates some discomfort, even if it's true, right? Right.
[00:16:41] DR. Walters: Even if it's true, because the brain doesn't distinguish between the difference, it just knows that whatever this is. A vegetarian, a vegan, a vegan that eat meat, that makes no sense to me, right? And so the brain is going to be like, okay, this is different. This is uncomfortable. What do we do right now? And so we're going to go into that mode of like, uh, I'm not going to accept that.
[00:17:05] MATT: And in an extreme case, then we're looking at shock, right?
[00:17:10] DR. Walters: So it's like a freeze frame. Yep. Yep.
[00:17:12] MATT: Where everything just kind of stops and you don't know what's up and what's down and and you're you're You're kind of done for however long it takes for your brain to reboot on some level Yeah,
[00:17:24] FAWN: and how about kids like kids watch these shows and then as I'm now watching these same movies that we used to watch I'm like, whoa there's a lot of Jokes in there, but the kids aren't getting the jokes because they don't have that Background.
[00:17:44] FAWN: And then I think just recently we started to re watch some movies and the kids were like, whoa I never noticed what this person is actually talking about, you know Like there's some innuendos or like things that kids don't Recognize but I think it works for all of humanity when you're not ready for something or if you don't have a history of something You don't know what is actually being said.
[00:18:08] FAWN: You hear things differently. When you watch a movie, years from now, you see things you never saw before. But you saw it. You heard it. It just didn't register? Or did it? Yeah, it goes
[00:18:20] DR. Walters: back to, well, I think it, it's, it's there, but it's not in the conscious, right? Mm hmm. We see it. It's like, you said, we watch a movie, and we go back and we re watch it, and then we're like, I don't remember seeing that.
[00:18:34] DR. Walters: Right, but now it makes sense why this happened because so somewhere it's there, but it's not necessarily What's in the conscious again? We have that selective view and selective memories of what we see Because if I at the storyline that I'm thinking this movie should portray right as adults Right?
[00:18:57] DR. Walters: As kids, we're talking about something totally different because, you know, we're talking about concrete thinking versus, you know, so, but as adults, when we want something, we ourselves, based on our history, based on our knowledge, will look for certain innuendos, and that's what we want to see, and so it's like, I have this bucket, and so I want everything, based on what my innuendo is, I'm going to look for everything that's going to fit into this bucket, right?
[00:19:26] DR. Walters: Right? Right. So that it fits into my storyline and anything that doesn't fit into the so if I want to see the the lead as an evil person, I'm going to look for everything that he did that made him a bad guy in this movie. So even if they did something right or good. That doesn't fit in my bucket, so I'm not gonna see that piece.
[00:19:48] DR. Walters: So when you tell me, well, did you see when, you know, Jack did X, Y, and Z? I'm like, I don't remember him doing that. Yeah,
[00:19:55] MATT: but Jack only did that to get them to trust him,
[00:19:58] DR. Walters: or... Exactly, right? So it goes right back to, I need to see him as this bad person. So even if he did do something good, like Matt said, it was with an ulterior motive, right?
[00:20:11] DR. Walters: And that's kind of how we see things. Like looking
[00:20:13] FAWN: for, looking for clues all along the way.
[00:20:16] DR. Walters: Looking for things to support your, if you want to think of it as this way, looking at things to support our hypotheses. That's how research is done, right? Yes. Right. You look for things to support your hypotheses.
[00:20:28] DR. Walters: And so if I think this is what it is, then I'm only going to be on the lookout for things that's going to support that. And anything that doesn't fit into this, hypotheses, I'm going to reject.
[00:20:39] FAWN: So, is that like, the kids were telling me this, or were you also telling me this, Matt? Like, now when we watch movies, the kids are like, Okay, Mom, look at who has a Mac as opposed to who has a PC.
[00:20:52] FAWN: The guy who has a Mac is the good guy, the PC is always the evil villain. Well,
[00:20:56] MATT: certainly on Apple TV, that
[00:20:57] FAWN: would be true. No, but in like rec in all movies. In all movies. Well,
[00:21:02] MATT: Mac yeah, Macs have this perception of being like, sleek and hip and, and uh, creative. But the villain And PCs are like, just chunky.
[00:21:10] FAWN: The villain never has a Mac. The villain always has this other Anyway, so, anyway. It's just an example of looking out for, to find the villain. Or to, you know, what we were just saying. Looking for something to support.
[00:21:28] DR. Walters: That idea. I need to support my belief or beliefs, right? And so, I'm going to look for things that are going to support my beliefs of whatever it is.
[00:21:39] DR. Walters: So, whether it's the villain or a movie or a good guy, which is why sometimes we label people as good people, you know, back to one of the, questions or statement you posed, um, Fawn, is, we see people a certain way and we want to see them that way. So we're going to see them as a good person, even if there's evidence to the contrary that they're not as good a friend or a good a person, right?
[00:22:03] DR. Walters: Because we want to see that, because we want to believe that what we're seeing and what we're believing is true. Right. Right? Because then it also reflects back on, if I'm not, you know, if I think about who I am as a person, then what does that make me? A poor judge of character? Right, so not only now do I, not only am I looking at the outside, but now I'm looking at me as an individual, as a person, like, Hey, what kind of person are you if you allowed this person to be a part of your life, your kid's life, knowing that, you know, they, have these markers, right?
[00:22:45] DR. Walters: So, of course, it's easier, we don't like discomfort as human beings. We don't, right? It drives us nuts. And so we, it's easier for us to just do and be and show up in ways that's, again, in my little bubble, right? Versus, oh, oh, ouch,
[00:23:08] FAWN: right? I always get in trouble, Dr. C. I think I've gotten better, but like... Well, like, we'll go, this was...
[00:23:16] FAWN: Years ago. I think I've gotten better or I don't know. I don't know. I don't know I need your help with this because I need to know how Is there a way to achieve like a stable and objective constant is I think that's what you said The last time we were talking. How do you know? How do you know for example?
[00:23:34] FAWN: I remember that day in the coffee shop, I've talked about this before, but, like, I was so wanting to make friends. And we lived in an area where people were, like, not interested. But, it didn't, it didn't stop us. We would go to coffee shops and start conversations and try to make things happen, and I was looking for my best friend.
[00:23:55] FAWN: We were so alone. on this island and the kids were just born, like no family. We had no family, no support. It was just us. And so we were at this coffee shop one day and I saw someone, a woman, she was sitting near us. We started talking and I think I so desperately wanted to meet a friend or to have a friend, to have like my buddy, like a best friend, that we started a conversation and I think she was feeling the same way.
[00:24:28] FAWN: But throughout the conversation, we were getting more and more excited, so excited, but in the middle, Matt would interject and go, Honey, honey, uh, honey, I don't think you're understanding. He would say that, like, and it was hard for him to interject because we were speaking so fast with such energy.
[00:24:48] FAWN: So at the end of the conversation, what made the conversation pause was we both realized that we were speaking about opposite things. She was speaking, like, I think she was more of a racist person. And I was speaking like, I love you, yeah, and whatever she was saying, I'm like, yeah, I totally agree.
[00:25:11] FAWN: But I, I was hearing something else. And she was hearing something else. And then we finally realized that we are total opposites with our beliefs. Like, we weren't even hearing each other. So, how... And especially as an amazing therapist that you are, Dr. C, how do you first of all communicate to people knowing that they're not fully hearing you?
[00:25:36] FAWN: How do you get that communication across? And then on the other side, how do you truly... Stop. I mean, do you have to stop, like, how do you stop from making these mistakes, like, assuming someone is a certain way? Do you have to just turn something off within yourself?
[00:25:55] DR. Walters: Like, what? Okay. So, those are very powerful questions, and I'm gonna do my best to answer them.
[00:26:03] DR. Walters: I don't think we can do them justice right now. So, let's start with, you initially started with, how do you show up in these relationships, and, um, I forgot how you phrased that. It was about the, how did you say it? I want to use your words. Um.
[00:26:20] FAWN: I think I was using your words. How do you achieve a stable and...
[00:26:25] FAWN: See, I wrote this down on my desk and I've been looking at it every day. Yeah,
[00:26:29] DR. Walters: re read that. How do you achieve a stable...
[00:26:31] FAWN: Is there a way to achieve a stable and objective constant?
[00:26:37] DR. Walters: So, you know, to quote N. D. R. R. E., the only thing constant in the world is change. Let's start there. Right? So the world is always going to change.
[00:26:46] DR. Walters: People change. You know, who you are today is not who you were yesterday. And who you are today is not who you're gonna be tomorrow. None of us, right? Because we experience life. And so we change with that. What is and should often be constant is our morals our values, right? So it's like a tree that's planted.
[00:27:12] DR. Walters: So it's like a tree that's planted, right? The root is firm. But that doesn't mean it doesn't bend when the wind blows, right? It tilts to the right, it tilts to the left, right? But it still stays firm.
[00:27:28] DR. Walters: That part is constant. The root is constant and we can be like that. That doesn't mean that we're not going to experience people who have different views, different perspective, different beliefs from what we have and we then interact? How do we connect or not connect with these folks? That's up to how I see myself, what I see as my values, right?
[00:27:54] DR. Walters: What I see as my self respect, right? So if I'm not in agreement with you about certain things, then I have to make that decision. What's most important here? Am I that desperate for a friend that I'm going to throw out my self, my values, my, you know, my morals and my values? No. Right? Absolutely not. Because just like the tree bent to the right and I found this person that I thought we were in line with, the tree will also bend to the left, right?
[00:28:29] DR. Walters: And I can meet someone else who's probably more in alignment with my morals and my values. So once I recognize that and I realize that we're, you know, we're moving, but we're really going this direction, we're, we're diverging. Then I have to make a decision at that moment and that's up to me not the other person and a simple Oh, wow, you know clearly we We're not in alignment here.
[00:28:59] DR. Walters: I'm not quite sure where the disconnect started or how we even missed it But it's clear to me right now that we are actually talking about something totally different Or we're on opposing sides of this coin. That doesn't mean we can't have a conversation. As long as we're respectful of each other. As long as you can hear me and I can hear you.
[00:29:28] DR. Walters: Because again, there's always going to be multiple realities. In any conversation that we have. And guess what? Whether we like it or not, they're both valid. That's your perspective. You're entitled to your opinion. Just like I'm entitled to mine. Doesn't mean I have to like it or agree with it. Right? You don't have to like it or agree with what I have to say either.
[00:29:52] DR. Walters: However, on a human level, we have to learn how to be respectful. And in doing so, I can say, you know what, we can agree to disagree. I can definitely understand, based on your experience and your experiences, why you see things that way and why you would believe that. And I also know, for my truth, is that has not been my experience.
[00:30:19] DR. Walters: And so that cannot be my truth. Yet, I understand why that is your truth. And so we can do one of two things. We can continue to have conversations and try to understand the other person's perspective. Or we can say, you know what? We're so far apart, there's no way we're going to be comfortable having these dialogues because we cannot, we're not ready to understand the other.
[00:30:48] DR. Walters: Right. Because when we listen, We're not supposed to be listening to fix the problem, right? We're supposed to be listening for understanding.
[00:30:58] FAWN: Do you hear that Matt?
[00:31:02] MATT: Why'd you throw that at
[00:31:02] DR. Walters: me?
[00:31:03] FAWN: When I tell you something, you try
[00:31:05] DR. Walters: to fix it. Of course. And then I try to act like you, and then you're like, don't fix it.
[00:31:09] DR. Walters: Don't try and fix it. I'm just trying to talk to you. So the idea is when we listen, we listen to understand. Because if we listen for understanding, the fix it piece will happen. Right? But it will happen in a way that's more, you know, that's what the person's looking for. More in line with what they're looking for.
[00:31:28] DR. Walters: If we immediately try to fix it, Then the other person is going to get offended because it's like, wait, wait, wait, you're fixing something that you don't even understand. Yeah, because it's the
[00:31:37] FAWN: emotion. It's mostly the emotion that I'm venting to you, Matt, and you were trying to fix the problem, but it's like, I have to deal with how I'm feeling about it.
[00:31:49] DR. Walters: Not that this so validating. No, no, no.
[00:31:51] MATT: Let me just dismiss that and fix it. . Mm-hmm. .
[00:31:56] DR. Walters: And that's why it's important to validate that experience. Right? Okay.
[00:32:00] MATT: Yes. Dr. C.
[00:32:01] DR. Walters: Right. That piece needs to happen first. That's the understanding. I understand. It makes sense now. I see. Oh, okay. Huh. Now I understand why that, or why you feel that way.
[00:32:14] DR. Walters: That makes a whole lot of sense. Right. Once that validation piece is done, then later on you can go into well, how can I support you on that? Is there anything I can do to help? Right. Or if we're talking about the example you gave, Fawn, if it feels like this is a total disconnect because or morals and values are so vastly apart, having conversations right now, and if you know what I'm saying right now, right, is not gonna be effective, then we need to just say that.
[00:32:47] DR. Walters: You know, just say, you know what, right now, I don't think it's helpful for either of us to continue this conversation. Maybe later on down the line, I wouldn't mind, you know, approaching this again. But right now, because I'm checking in with myself and I'm noticing that I'm getting elevated, right? Meaning my emotions are getting to the point where, uh, you know, things that are going to come out of my mouth may not be the most appropriate.
[00:33:14] DR. Walters: So let's table this. It doesn't mean we can't come back to it. And that's understanding and that's being respectful, right? Because I want to feel something about myself when I walk away, right? Because that's the question, is how do I want to feel when I walk away from this conversation? Right.
[00:33:33] FAWN: Right. I feel like there's an art to doing that, because saying that can, like, if I heard that, I would have my feelings hurt so badly that I wouldn't want to talk to you again.
[00:33:46] FAWN: Because I'm like, oh my goodness, I've hurt Dr. C's feelings or I elevated her emotions. So I'm like, oh my god, I better be careful. So I, I tend to feel like,
[00:33:56] DR. Walters: oh. So if you hear what?
[00:33:59] FAWN: Um, that has, I forgot the words you just said, but like, that has caused me to, I can't visit that right now. I can't talk to you about that right now.
[00:34:10] FAWN: Whereas like, when I feel that way, I tend to say, oh my god, I don't, oh! Can we talk about this later? I'm like that, you know what I'm saying? Because if someone said that to me, I'd be like, Just to be safe, I'm never going to talk about this again. And I think that's what happens to a lot of people. They're afraid to speak, and they're afraid to rub the person the wrong way.
[00:34:40] DR. Walters: I'm not responsible for your feelings.
[00:34:42] FAWN: No, I know, I know, but I'm saying how I, but
[00:34:45] DR. Walters: Right, and that's the thing. So that's, but that's what we have to get through to ourselves and to others is no one's responsible for your feelings. I have a responsibility to not be rude and disrespectful. I have a responsibility to you, right?
[00:35:00] DR. Walters: But I'm not responsible for how you internalize what I say. So I'm not gonna say, oh, you're, and be disrespectful, calling you out of your name and saying those things. But I have a right to protect my Me, myself as well, and so if I'm being, if I feel discomfort, if I'm feeling uncomfortable, if I'm feeling unsafe, I have a right to say, you know what, I'm not feeling safe in this conversation right now.
[00:35:27] DR. Walters: I would prefer if we continue this at a later time. How you choose to internalize that, that's on you.
[00:35:36] DR. Walters: Right? I know, but it seems harsh. Because then you
[00:35:38] FAWN: Abrupt, maybe. Yeah, it's abrupt. Thank you. It seems abrupt, and that I'm just saying, um, not just me, I just think that that could be why we have so many problems communicating, especially when people have completely different reality bubbles that they're coming from.
[00:35:57] FAWN: I just feel like we need to be nicer about it. Yes, I, I firmly agree that we all... Are responsible for our own emotions that you, you don't control my emotions. I control my own emotions. I just feel like there needs to be a better, like softer, more gentle
[00:36:19] DR. Walters: way. Oh, there are. You know what I'm saying? It also depends on what you're trying to accomplish in this though.
[00:36:26] DR. Walters: Because remember there's three ways, there's basically three things when we communicate. I have an objective. I'm wanting to save this relationship. Or it's about my self respect, right? So it depends on which of those three things is primary, my approach is going to be different. If it's about number two, which is, I definitely want to maintain this relationship with this person, and I definitely want to think about how will Fawn, how will Matt feel about me when this interaction is over, because that's primary, then of course my approach is going to be softer.
[00:37:06] DR. Walters: So I'm not going to say, well, we're not going to talk about this now. There's going to be more of a gentle approach. There's going to be a validation of your experience, right? And then there's going to be an expression of how I'm feeling, right? So yes, if that's the priority where I want to maintain this relationship.
[00:37:28] DR. Walters: Then, of course, I'm not going to be, get away from me. It's going to be more, hey, Fawn, I hear you, I definitely understand where you're coming from, and, you know, for my role in this, I'm sorry that that has been your experience. And let me tell you how I'm experiencing this, right? So of course, the tone, if you notice, is different.
[00:37:50] DR. Walters: Oh yeah,
[00:37:50] FAWN: I feel
[00:37:50] DR. Walters: totally different. The sound wave is different. Yeah. But that's because... The relationship is priority. If my self respect is priority, then my approach is going to be different, right? So I'm going to stick to the facts. What you said was not okay, right? This is how it impacted me. And this is what I'm going to do.
[00:38:14] DR. Walters: And that juncture, it's more about me protecting my sanity. Because maybe we've done the, the being gentle, and the kind, and all of that, and you're still saying, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And at this point, I'm like, I'm not worried about protecting this anymore. Because you're not definitely, you're apparently not respecting me and where I'm coming from.
[00:38:39] DR. Walters: So at that point, it's no longer about the relationship being primary. It's now my sense of, safety, my self respect. So the tone is going to be different.
[00:38:52] FAWN: So Dr. C, it feels like our society, especially in the United States, that's where it is. It's all about the safety and self respect that's So, that we, it's, the, the priority is not the relationships, the priority is saving our, being safe and standing up to our, for our self respect.
[00:39:17] FAWN: And it feels like, then, I feel stuck in this now, like, how do we maneuver to a softer place where we can have the relationship be more important, that we feel a little bit safer that if you're constantly, I mean, , if we're in a state that we are in, for example, it may not just be the United States, but I feel so enveloped in this, personally, I don't know how you all feel about it, but how do we maneuver it where I just don't see things being fixed, because one side is saying terrible things that is unsafe.
[00:39:57] FAWN: And,
[00:39:58] DR. Walters: so, but I think we're, we're looking, I think that's a, honestly, I think that's something different, right? I think there's going to be people who are hateful and harmful, right? And people who are approaching a relationship from a place of hate, the approach has to be different, right? If I'm approaching you from a place of love, but I don't like some of your behaviors, the approach is going to be different.
[00:40:29] DR. Walters: I can still approach you with love. I can still approach you with kindness, right? Because I know you're not being malicious. Right? Right. Okay? But if you're being malicious in your intent, in your behaviors, in your words, then why should I... Sit here and be nice with my words. No, right? Yeah, I don't have to go into gutter with you I don't have to go into the gutter with you, but I also don't have to coddle you, right?
[00:40:58] DR. Walters: And that's why I say you have to make in any interactions. You have to decide what is primary, the relationship, my self respect ,or it's an objective, right? If this is just an objective Because all three elements, don't get me wrong, in every conversation, all three elements will be present. Because there's always an objective, there's always a commitment, it's a person, so there's a relationship there.
[00:41:25] DR. Walters: I just have to decide how important this relationship is to me. And there's always who I am as a person, meaning my self respect. All three will be present. The difference is... What is it that I want from this interaction? If you're my boss, and I don't care, we're not going to hang out outside of here. This conversation is about my raise that I'm due.
[00:41:52] DR. Walters: I'm not going to be disrespectful, but I'm also not going to be, you know, all of that. It's an objective, right? I have an objective. I want my vacation. I want my raise. And I'll find a way to be effective in that by sticking to the facts. Here are the facts. Here are the facts. Here are the facts. Let's stick to the facts.
[00:42:12] DR. Walters: Why I should get my raise or my vacation. Right. There's no questions about that. If it's the relationship, and this is somebody who, like I said, is honestly, genuinely, you know, want to, to have a healthy conversation, but may be coming from a place of ignorance, I can still show you love, right? But if you go back to what I said earlier, if you're being disrespectful...
[00:42:41] DR. Walters: Then why should I, I don't have to go in the gutter with you, and I don't have to be disrespectful to you either, I don't have to call you outside of your name, but I can simply end the conversation, I can say, you know what, I'm no longer going to engage in conversations with you, because you're being rude, you're being obnoxious, and you're being disrespectful.
[00:43:01] DR. Walters: Right? And I can walk away. Boom. I don't need to say anything else to you. End of story.
[00:43:06] MATT: Right. Or even just as simple as, I guess we disagree to disagree, so let's move
[00:43:10] DR. Walters: on. There
[00:43:11] FAWN: you go. You know, Matt, going back to circles, right? Aikido. What are you bringing into your circle? Who do you want in your circle?
[00:43:20] FAWN: But sometimes we don't have a choice. Sometimes it's family. Like, I had to cut
[00:43:25] DR. Walters: off my intent What do you mean you
[00:43:29] FAWN: Like, for example, I, you are born in a family, like, you don't have a choice, you're in that family, but I got to a point where I had to completely disconnect from the family, like, completely, like, no family anymore, that's it.
[00:43:44] FAWN: Um, another situation is, you are at a job, and you, you maybe can't leave right now, so you are stuck in that, that kind of, you're compromised, and you're stuck in that situation. You know, there's no
[00:43:59] DR. Walters: compromise. Right. There is. There is. But you could leave the job,
[00:44:04] FAWN: I guess. But, or, like, I, you know, or you can get physically ill.
[00:44:09] DR. Walters: Because that's stress. Or you can find, or, there's always that third. You can find ways, you know, I have to be here because I have to pay my bills. I have to take care of my family. So, how do I make it work for me? And that's the shift that needs to happen here. That happens here. In your head, right?
[00:44:29] FAWN: Dr. C. Dr.
[00:44:31] FAWN: C is pointing to her, her head. The side of her head.
[00:44:35] DR. Walters: It happens. It's a mental shift. That needs to happen, right? Go back to what we were talking about. The effects, right? When we see certain things and we create a narrative. This job sucks. The world sucks. Everybody da da da da da. Guess what? Everything I see is going to be seen through that.
[00:44:56] DR. Walters: Right. But if I shift and like, you know what? Here's the reality. And this comes with radical acceptance. It is what it is. I don't have to like it. I don't have to agree with it. But if I want to feed my family, I gotta find a way to be okay with getting up every day and going to this job. So what can I do?
[00:45:14] DR. Walters: So how do I shift my narrative? Okay. Alright. I have to be there from 8 to 4. Alright. Show up at 8. 8 to 10. I'm gonna do this. At 10 o'clock, I'm gonna sit up. I'm gonna do my break. I'm gonna take care of myself. Well, how do I make it manageable? Because your boss is not going to be doing it, your co workers aren't going to, that's not their responsibility.
[00:45:34] DR. Walters: Right. If you're miserable, then you have to figure out what are things I can do because I cannot, right now, change the system. Mm hmm. Right? So if I cannot change the system to have it do what I want it to do, how can I survive within that? And that's a piece you can shift. That's a piece you have some levels of control over, right?
[00:45:58] DR. Walters: So we can create our
[00:45:59] FAWN: own
[00:46:00] DR. Walters: reality bubble. Yeah, so you can take vacations without going anywhere, right? Because if I feel uncomfortable at my desk right now, I'm gonna take a vacation for 30 seconds, one minute, sitting right here. Because if I don't, then I'm gonna lose my ish. I love that. I love
[00:46:19] FAWN: that. I'm gonna take a 30 second vacation.
[00:46:23] MATT: Yeah, I, I used to do laps at work. I would, I would figure out a nice circular path I could walk when I was feeling anything. And, and honestly, in, in my mind, hearing you say that, I just immediately think about, you know, the guy at the warehouse who was convinced vegetarians eat meat. I was like, okay, I guess vegetarians eat meat.
[00:46:43] MATT: And I moved on.
[00:46:45] DR. Walters: Exactly, exactly. Why will you waste all that energy getting angry? Over something you can't control. And, and, or.
[00:46:56] MATT: Right, and or trying to convince him that he is wrong. When he is a brick wall. He was a brick wall. He refused to even understand. It was like so outside of his
[00:47:07] DR. Walters: reality. That's his reality.
[00:47:09] DR. Walters: Yep. Right, and it's not my job. Right? Right. I can share my knowledge and how you choose to use that. That's on you. Right. Right? That's on you. And so, why am I, and this is what I think we as a human race, we need to understand is, why am I going to become so angry to the point where now I'm physically and emotionally ill trying to convince you of something?
[00:47:39] DR. Walters: That makes no sense. Right. Right? So... I need to take care of me because I have a family that I need to take care of. Right? Does that mean I can't share stuff with you? Of course, I'll share stuff with you. I'll share my knowledge. But again, what you do with that, it's outside of my control. It's outside of my control.
[00:47:59] DR. Walters: That's on you. Right. That's totally on you. And in terms of having this relationship, if we want to be in healthy relationships with others, we have to have a healthy relationship with ourselves. Right? Meaning we have to figure out where my boundaries are, how I want to communicate those boundaries. So if you're being disrespectful, if we're on this different wavelength and the wavelength is making me uncomfortable, I need to know how to say that to you in a way that you can hear it.
[00:48:30] DR. Walters: I can't force you to do anything about it, but you can hear it. Me being angry, me being aggressive, you're not going to hear it. All it's going to do is strengthen that vegetarian sense. Eat meat. You know, that's all it's gonna do, right? But if I can, in a nice, effective way, say, you know what? Using a tone.
[00:48:53] DR. Walters: Hey, I hear you. And I can see why you think, you know, there's vegans who eat meat sometimes. Right? And I can understand that. And here's my reality. Here's my experience. Here's my belief. Right? And that's it. So, hey, more power to you. How about it? You know, how about it? You know, why am I getting so worked up trying to change something you're not ready to change, to even look at?
[00:49:30] DR. Walters: Because, you know, you grew up thinking it's eyebulbs, right? Right. And it was never challenged, right? And so the brain, again, works based on habits. And so for 19 years, that's what it's going to say because there was never a shift over here. And I'm almost, I can probably say 100 percent that the first time someone told you was eyeballs, you had several slips where you still call it eyeballs.
[00:49:59] DR. Walters: Right? Because for 19 years, that is what you called it, and that's what the brain was accustomed to. Dr.
[00:50:05] FAWN: C, I never said eye bulbs again, only to tell this story. I was shocked into, I was shocked into submission, or whatever you want to call it. It was so shocking.
[00:50:17] MATT: And yet, you know what? I am willing to bet that You had been corrected before and then
[00:50:24] FAWN: I don't and I never heard it and you never heard it and never
[00:50:27] MATT: understood it And so you finally got it like right in your face Well, you can't ignore it It's like somebody open the dictionary and said no, what is that word right there?
[00:50:39] DR. Walters: Because the brain doesn't change that quickly after doing something for a long time, right Even if it changed for a moment It reverts back to it until it becomes routine. I think I agree with Matt that that probably wasn't the first time you heard it. That was probably, you know, the first time that the brain really latches on, because, oh, I heard this before.
[00:51:00] DR. Walters: Okay, alright, maybe we'll start saying eyeballs. But I gotta tell you guys, it felt, I felt like I had
[00:51:07] FAWN: never heard it before.
[00:51:08] MATT: It was like shocking. Cause again, the brain attempts to protect you from shock. Exactly, exactly. The brain doesn't want you to go through that, so it's an eyebulb, obviously. But
[00:51:19] FAWN: doesn't it make sense?
[00:51:20] FAWN: It's a bulb. Like, it has to do with lights, you know, and it works with light. You know, you,
[00:51:25] MATT: you spin me white rum, baby. Ratchet,
[00:51:29] FAWN: baby.
[00:51:32] DR. Walters: Just, you know, we just gotta remind ourselves that through all of this, whether it's eyebulbs, White rum, however we want to, you know, whatever stories we tell ourselves, whatever interpretation we make, listening to the telephone, you know, the little story we tell each other. You know, we still have to do all of this with compassion.
[00:51:58] DR. Walters: So even for the people who are saying things that make you cringe. People who, you know, are, you're having a conversation thinking you're going in one direction and it's going in the opposite direction. At the end of the day, we still have to practice compassion for ourselves, for allowing these conversations to get as far, these storylines to get as far as they got.
[00:52:20] DR. Walters: to age 19. I'm just kidding. And, and, compassion for the other person. Because remember, your bill of rights, your reality, you know, your bill of rights is theirs. So they're going through the world the exact same way you are based on whatever information they've been given. Just like whatever information you've been given and you grasped onto.
[00:52:42] DR. Walters: So at the end of the day, as we move forward, As we create healthy and healthier relationships and we strengthen these relationships with ourselves and with others, we really need to have at the crux of all of that the element of compassion. Compassionate intention, compassionate behavior. Compassion doesn't mean that you don't hold yourself or the other person accountable.
[00:53:07] DR. Walters: It still means that we have to hold ourselves accountable for when we're not showing up or doing something that's not right, right? It doesn't mean that, Oh, I'm so sorry. Yes. It's, Oh my goodness, I'm so sorry. And... Let's talk about what we need to shift. Right. Right. So compassion, love, radical acceptance, radical forgiveness, effective communication.
[00:53:31] DR. Walters: Those are all the things that in order to have, I think in order to have these friendship, these relationships, that's going to last. We need to have those elements.
[00:53:44] FAWN: Agreed. I have a question to wrap things up. I just have a question. I'm sorry. I'm probably going to make you repeat it again, but. In a little short little snippet, can you tell us your trick as an amazing therapist?
[00:54:04] FAWN: How do you hear people? Like, when we have conversations, Dr. C, I'm like, how in the world did she remember that detail? Was she writing everything down? How do you hear people? How do you do it, Dr. C? Because it's your profession. You totally are completely, what's the word, Matt? Um, present. Thank you.
[00:54:26] FAWN: Present. Can you teach us a little bit of that so we can do that with one another? Not being a psychologist, you know, not being that, a professional
[00:54:36] DR. Walters: doctor. I would say a couple of words. Listen. And be present. This is how we tend to do it. This is kind of going back to where you were accusing Matt of doing this, right?
[00:54:51] DR. Walters: When we are solving for the problem, while the person is talking, guess what? We're not listening. We're not listening. Hey So the idea is to give the person your undivided attention. Mirror their movement. So they're leaning forward lean forward Right if eye contact is appropriate culturally give eye contact if it's not then mirror Whatever it is that they're doing show them that you're listening repeat What you hear or what you think is, remember, right?
[00:55:33] DR. Walters: We hear what we want to hear. So, check it out. So, what I hear you say is, Is that correct? No, no, no, no. That's not what I mean. Right? So, we listen for understanding. But if I'm already trying to solve your problem, I'm going to miss at least 50 percent of what you're saying. Mmm. And so, guess what my solution is going to be?
[00:55:57] DR. Walters: It's going to be wrong! Hang on. Cause I'll know. heard half of the problem. Right. Right. So we listen. We listen for understanding. We understand that there's multiple realities. We listen with a compassionate ear. And then we reflect what we heard, or what we think we heard. We check it out for validity.
[00:56:20] DR. Walters: And then we say, okay, based on what you've shared, right, also understanding that this is your reality, what might the other person's reality be? And given that, do you think that this is, or was, the best way to approach that? Right.
[00:56:44] FAWN: Oh my goodness, Dr. C. Thank you. Thank you. It's interesting,
[00:56:48] MATT: because in a business style context, particularly when I'm talking with somebody I don't talk to a lot, if we have a meeting to discuss an issue, after we're done with that whole discussion, I like to write up what I heard them say, what I said, And then what the proposed solution is just so they can check me.
[00:57:09] MATT: Mm hmm.
[00:57:10] DR. Walters: And that's perfect. There's nothing
[00:57:12] MATT: wrong with that. Nobody ever says, that isn't what I said. And it's good because then it's all... Because I'm really good at listening, hopefully. I don't know. But, and then you have a document and you can move on. And that, that helps me in business. But it, it almost sounds like I need to adopt something.
[00:57:27] FAWN: Well, Matt, you're...
[00:57:28] DR. Walters: No, I'm not saying you don't have to. I mean... Not everyone can just listen. There's nothing wrong with jotting things down if you think your memory is not the greatest. As long as jotting things down is not going to distract you from what's happening in the moment. I'm saying, if you're problem solving in the moment, it means that you're not listening.
[00:57:49] DR. Walters: Right.
[00:57:49] FAWN: Okay, so I understand what you're both saying. I'm going to interrupt. Because the problem is that we're hu Oh, by the way, we're gonna wrap it up, but the problem is, when emotions come in, you can't listen because your emotions are involved. So maybe we can talk about that, because as an emotional person, a lot of the times I'm like,
[00:58:10] DR. Walters: Well, I'll answer that in one minute.
[00:58:13] DR. Walters: Okay. So, you gotta check your emotions. Check your emotions at the door. Right? If you're gonna have a conversation with someone...
[00:58:22] FAWN: No, but what if it's Matt who's emotional? And he won't. He won't check
[00:58:26] DR. Walters: it. But maybe that's... That's on Matt to also check his emotions. So it's not just you. Did you hear that? No, I didn't.
[00:58:33] DR. Walters: We all have to, remember I said at the beginning, I'm not responsible, you're not responsible for the other person's emotion. We each individually have to check ourselves and if we find that in this moment I'm too quote unquote emotional, then I need to check myself. You shouldn't be the one checking me.
[00:58:53] DR. Walters: Because if you're the one checking me... Then I'm gonna be mad because what are you telling me? I'm mad. Don't tell me I'm mad even though damn well I know I'm oh, sorry, even though I know I am So I have to check myself And if I do we have to learn how to scan from head to toe Know what our triggers are one know how it shows up if I start biting my lip if I start twitching my eyes if I start pacing Right?
[00:59:22] DR. Walters: Am I getting hot in my body? So what are the physiological changes that tells me that I'm getting to that point where my emotions are going to be in the driver's seat? I need to know that and then I need to check myself and I need to come back to you and say, you know, Fawn, I need a timeout. I need to step away for a moment, you know, when I work with couples one of the things I tell them is come up with a code word.
[00:59:50] DR. Walters: Right? And when you have that code word, because the reality is when we get so worked up, we're not gonna be able to say, Fawn, I'm feeling overwhelmed and I need to go take, no, right? You need a code word. So when I say the code word, you know that I need a break, you need to stop, because I recognize that I'm overwhelmed and I need to self regulate.
[01:00:11] DR. Walters: We hear you. I go self regulate, and then I come back, and we can continue the conversation. But it's not up to the other person, because you're becoming emotional. It's up to whoever's becoming emotional to check themselves. Yeah. Alright? And then continue the
[01:00:28] FAWN: conversation. In martial arts, we tap. So, like, when a person taps, you know you better stop.
[01:00:33] FAWN: So, Matt and I just say, tapping. Tapping! Meaning, okay, got it. Let's just stop. Stop. Um, Dr. C has to go help people. So, we have to cut this now. But, thank you, Dr. C, for coming. But before you go, Dr. C, please tell all of our friends how they can reach you and what you're up to.
[01:00:53] DR. Walters: Yeah, so, uh, you can reach me via email at info at walterswellnessgroup.
[01:01:00] DR. Walters: com Our website is walterswellnessgroup. com right now, we have a few things happening In February of 24, we're having a managing your traumatic experience retreat in Costa Rica And we're still, we still have room So if you have 6 days, it's February 29th through March 5th And if you have six days, would love to travel, you'd like to travel internationally, and would love to go to Costa Rica, just reach out to us through info at Walter's Wellness Group, or you can find us at our website, walterswellnessgroup.
[01:01:37] DR. Walters: com. So, we also have a Black Women's Wellness Retreat in Jamaica in the summer of July of 2024. We're also accepting, folks for that. You can reach us the same way. Plus, we have, we offer various different classes that are virtual, so wherever you are in the world. We have a Managing Life Challenges class where we go more in depth in terms of how you can navigate your anxiety, your depression, relationships.
[01:02:06] DR. Walters: We have a whole section on navigating health relationships, how to manage your sleep issues, and how, which is one of my favorite, how to tolerate distress. So, how do you manage, you know, when you're in the moment and you're being triggered, what are some things you can do? So we offer that. We offer a year long program on managing trauma.
[01:02:30] DR. Walters: We do a couples communication class, as well as some cohorts groups, around black women's support, around domestic violence. And then we do, a couple different one day restorative retreats. So, again, if you want to learn more about us, please look at our website at walterswellnessgroup.
[01:02:49] DR. Walters: com or reach out to us at info at Walters Wellness Group. So thank you guys for joining us. Thanks Matt and Fawn for this beautiful day and program and I wish everyone well. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much.
[01:03:07] FAWN: We love you so much. Thank you. Have a beautiful everyday. Love you guys. Bye everybody.
[01:03:13] FAWN: See you in a few days. Love you guys.
[01:03:15] DR. Walters: Bye. Bye.
