Episode Transcript
Tao Te Ching of Friendship
[00:00:00] MATT: Hello. Hello?
[00:00:04] FAWN: Welcome back everybody. Okay, so this was when I was in, I guess, university, but you don't call it university when it's art school. , I went to a major until I couldn't afford to be in there anymore, but I went to a major art school, an elitist kind of art school, you know.
[00:00:24] MATT: Oh dear.
[00:00:25] MATT: Lots of berets.
[00:00:26] FAWN: No. Lots of torn jeans, lots of like attitude, you know?
[00:00:34] MATT: Ooh, we love the attitude.
[00:00:36] FAWN: Meanwhile, I was always like, I'm always the odd oddball. Everyone's in torn jeans and like comfy clothes, but I was in stockings, pantyhose, you know, pumps, pencil skirts, blazers, cuz I had to go, I had to go to work right after, you know, I, I support myself through.
[00:00:56] FAWN: Through school. Anyway, another story that's totally off the subject, but anyway, one of the best lessons that I learned in photography school came from my teacher, Hank Wessel, and he started to show us the most, I mean, back then I would've said boring, simple photographs. And he's like, how spectacular is this?
[00:01:23] FAWN: Look you guys. And it would be slide after slide after slide. And everybody's like, oh, you know, like totally into it. Except for me and this other kid, Donovan. We were like, what the heck is this? Anyone could have shot this. And he stopped and he said, yeah, but not everyone did. Only he did. Only this person took this photograph.
[00:01:46] FAWN: Right. Only this person noticed it enough to bring attention to it. And that's when I started to learn through Hank Wessel and through like my mentors in photography that, and Hank Wessel was one of them, that the simple things are the most profound - things that people ignore. We've talked about this on other shows, but things that people ignore or they walk by they don't notice -that is usually the most interesting, the most profound, the most, what's the word for it, Matt? Besides Profi, besides profound, it's. It takes a special eye. It takes a special awareness. It takes a special psyche. It takes a special sense of wisdom, appreciation. Someone who's grown, who has the ability to spot something that's a diamond that may not be polished, and at the store at Tiffany's for you to say: wow! Look at that spectacular jewel. I think the people who notice the diamond that's at Tiffany's, it's like they're the people that fall behind they're followers. It's the people who can see the extraordinary and something so ordinary. And that goes in finding friendships, that goes in, finding people around you that are so spectacular,
[00:03:23] FAWN: but people won't even notice. That is the message today, and that's the message that keeps coming up. We've been doing shows lately on messages that are coming your way and my goodness, has this message been coming up a lot. And once again, I wanna thank my friend Michelle Silence. Michelle Silence is, has truly, I mean her, her last name is Silence.
[00:03:49] FAWN: She has the most beautiful voice. She is a, a voice over her talent. She's a voice artist, and, uh, she's been sending me messages lately. And again, perfect timing. Michelle. Thank you so much. It's helped me so much. So what I'm trying to say is sometimes, not sometimes, but we know we are all knowing.
[00:04:12] FAWN: We know, we know things. But we get wrapped up and we need reminders. And it takes a Michelle silence to come and say, Hey, remember this. Read this, listen to this. And it puts you back on track. So much like Hank Wessel and my favorite for photographer Henri Cartier-Bresson.
[00:04:36] FAWN: They are the ones who taught me this. And this is how I am with my marriage. we always talk about, what's the term that Henry always used? Ari always used the decisive moment. The decisive moment. Can I read like the paragraph that changed my life? Can I read that? Is that don't, I don't know. Can you, okay, I'm gonna read it.
[00:04:58] FAWN: Okay. Hold on, you guys. I was just going through it. I love this guy so much. I went to his office in Paris every day waiting for him to show up, and I would write to him every day. And one day I actually got a letter, and this was when I was living in England, but I would go to Paris as as much as I could.
[00:05:22] FAWN: And I actually got a letter back mailed to where I was living in England from his, I think it was his wife. And I still have this letter, so nice. But basically saying he doesn't do interviews anymore. And later, I found out that this one famous photographer, I'm not gonna mention, I think she's the one who screwed it all up.
[00:05:42] FAWN: He'd never liked to be photographed. He didn't, he just did not wanna be photographed. And his images are, were beautiful and. Like he was kind of invisible, right? So he could, he, the most amazing scenes would just come alive in front of him. Right? Anyway, so he, he was convinced by this other photographer, please, can you, I, I worship you, please, can we meet?
[00:06:09] FAWN: And so , he said, yes. But then like a gun. She pulled out the camera and started snapping photos. And that's when he said no more. So his wife wrote to me and said, I'm sorry he doesn't do anymore interviews, but this was a very long time ago, guys.
[00:06:25] FAWN: , here's part of like one of his books, this is what he said. This is Henri Cartier-Bresson he goes: "bong. Got it. Ah, you see,
[00:06:36] FAWN: I am extremely impulsive, terribly. It is really a pain in the neck for my friends and family. I am a bunch of nerves, but I take advantage of it in photography. I never think. I act quick like this, and, ah, And you have to forget yourself. You have to be yourself, and you have to forget yourself, so that image becomes much stronger. What you want and what you see if you get involved completely in what you are doing and not thinking. Ideas are very dangerous.
[00:07:20] FAWN: You must think all the time, but when you are photographing, you are not trying to push a point or explain something or prove something. You don't prove anything. It comes by itself. You nourish it by your own life,
[00:07:36] FAWN: by your taste. The intellectual luggage that you carry, your experiences. You love, you hate. It's to live fully and richly."
[00:07:48] FAWN: Now. you don't have to take it as just photography terms, but I think that's so beautiful. You know, and we were just talking on a previous episode that it things will work themselves out.
[00:08:01] FAWN: Right, right. And he's saying it comes by itself. You don't have to prove a point. You don't have to do anything. You have to kind of go with the flow. You have to forget about yourself. And same with friendship. You have to forget about yourself and think about us as a unit. All of us. Forget about what you wanna say.
[00:08:24] FAWN: Forget about what you wanna do in the world and who you are, what you should be doing. Just be. Anyway, another photography lesson for, for all time. But what I wanna talk about today is based on this, it was this that led me to this message that kept coming up this week. And also what Michelle sent to me.
[00:08:47] FAWN: Lessons that are so basic, we can lose sight of them. So thank you friends, like Michelle Silence for reminding us by giving us words of wisdom, love, and reminders. Love you, Michelle. Thank you. So here's what Michelle sent me, this little note she found, and from a book called Parent's Tao Te Ching
[00:09:10] FAWN: Written by William Martin. And here's the paragraph that Michelle sent to me:
[00:09:15] FAWN: " Making the ordinary come alive. Do not ask your children to strive for extraordinary lives. Such striving may seem admirable, but it is a way of foolishness.
[00:09:29] FAWN: Help them. Instead to find the wonder and the marvel of an ordinary life. Show them the joy of tasting tomatoes, apples, and pears.
[00:09:41] FAWN: Show them how to cry when pets and people die. Show them the infinite pleasure in the touch of a hand. And make the ordinary come alive for them, the extraordinary will take care of itself."
[00:09:55] FAWN: Do you see how all these messages are related? The extraordinary will take care of itself?
[00:10:02] MATT: Well, there is honestly, so much
[00:10:04] MATT: wonder if you're paying attention. In even the most banal things that we do, it's just we get so jaded or we get so busy, busy in a rush, in a hurry that we don't really stop and take a moment, stop and smell the flowers as it were.
[00:10:26] FAWN: Does this ever happen to you? Maybe not as a man, but like. You fluff your hair a certain way?
[00:10:33] MATT: Oh, yes, absolutely all the time.
[00:10:36] FAWN: But like you do something so stupid and small and then you go to the coffee shop and your friend totally notices and, and brings it up. You know what I'm saying?
[00:10:46] MATT: I do, I do. Next door neighbor was like, wow, you're looking sharp today.
[00:10:50] MATT: And I was like, what? But he is like, yes, everything's working. All your colors are working.
[00:10:59] MATT: So, so like I said, this
[00:11:02] FAWN: has been the message that comes up a lot this past week and then it came up again a few more times. It was the end of the Marvelous Mrs. Maisel. Do you remember this? Oh, the end. Oh, the last episode. You guys, we've been loving watching this. We were late comers to it.
[00:11:20] MATT: You were. I wasn't.
[00:11:22] FAWN: Okay. Uh, you weren't. That's right. I totally forgot you would watch it. And I thought it was weird. I'm like, why are you watching that? I, I didn't understand what it was.
[00:11:32] MATT: Right. And the first episode is certainly a challenging one, especially if it's supposed to be part of a family rotation.
[00:11:40] FAWN: So we, we, as in the kids and I, through Matt, discovered it during the pandemic . We started watching it and we got hooked.
[00:11:50] MATT: And so we watched the very last episode, the finale, and I broke into a sobbing coughing kind of a cry
[00:12:00] MATT: because that's what you do
[00:12:01] FAWN: in front of the kids. Yeah. But this was a sobbing, coughing cry, like hysterical crying. Mm-hmm. And you, you were, you were, you were all, and I couldn't help it.
[00:12:10] FAWN: It was in front of you all. But I mean, I'm normally cry in front of you guys. Yes. And I definitely like, commercials make me cry. I cry. I just cry. I'm a crier. And, um, was it you who said, are you crying because it's the last show? And I was crying so hard that I couldn't talk and I, I was trying to say no, and at this point my head was now in your chest and I was being hugged by the whole family, the kids, everybody.
[00:12:39] FAWN: And I was trying to explain why I was crying. And I, and I was scared to explain why I was crying because as much as I am open with our kids, lately, I'm like, maybe I shouldn't. Maybe I've been too open may, you know, I don't know. I don't think so. I believe in having frank conversations, right? I believe in whenever situations come up and there's an emotion, you're obviously in it.
[00:13:06] FAWN: They feel it. So even if you don't talk about it, they feel like something's up. So it creates more trauma if they don't know what's going on. So I try to talk about everything, and so I'm like, so I was debating while I was coughing and crying. Should I say why I'm really crying and I couldn't help it. So it, it came out anyway.
[00:13:26] FAWN: So what happened was it was like, how do I explain this?
[00:13:31] FAWN: In looking at a character like The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, how hard she worked and everything. I'm like, wow. I, I just feel like I'm old now and my foot, oh, here I go again. I can't do it.
[00:13:50] MATT: Here we are folks.
[00:13:55] FAWN: Um, Can you help? I can't, woo. I can't do it. This is what edits are for. No, I don't wanna edit it. Um,
[00:14:06] FAWN: I just thought that my photography would've been out there that I would've contributed to society more. You know, like, just seemed like nobody cares. About my work when they think I'm not talented enough. I don't know what it is, but um, I didn't make it, you know, and like watching the last episode with The Marvelous Mrs.
[00:14:28] FAWN: Maisel the way it was wrapped up and everything and watching her whole life, right? I was like, oh man. Like, what about me? I was supposed to do big things.
[00:14:40] FAWN: And I worked so hard to do big things, but it didn't work out for me. Now I feel all old and stuff. I feel like my life is over and you know, I'm just like, I don't even have the same drive anymore for photography like I used to. You know, I, it just makes me sad and makes me feel hopeless. I don't know how to explain it and it, there's not enough time,
[00:15:02] FAWN: you know what I'm saying?
[00:15:03] MATT: I do. But you know, in my mind it's like, okay, so when did that, when did that woman from Santa Fe start painting flowers?
[00:15:12] FAWN: Are you talking about Georgia O'Keefe? Okay. I don't know.
[00:15:16] MATT: It was later in life.
[00:15:17] FAWN: You know, it's just, it's just hard in the United States the,
[00:15:22] MATT: the right time to start anything was like 10 years ago. The second best time is now, and that's just what it is.
[00:15:33] FAWN: I started, I started years and years and years and years ago, more than 10 years ago. I started decades ago.
[00:15:41] MATT: and maybe the, maybe the thing to start is restarting, maybe.
[00:15:47] FAWN: Anyway, just feel left behind. You know, even with the podcasts,
[00:15:52] MATT: because there's so much, it feels like, it feels like such a scarcity mindset in America.
[00:16:00] FAWN: Well, also, everything is centered around youth and then all of a sudden time goes by so fast and you're not 20 anymore.
[00:16:12] FAWN: I'm not?
[00:16:14] FAWN: It just seems like in the United States it's a lot of like your success only happened in your twenties.
[00:16:20] FAWN: So anyway, I was feeling down and so anyway, that's why I was crying and um, so, and that's, I obviously feel that way cause I'm still crying. But it's interesting because the next day another message came and now my voice is all messed up. If any like voice over talent, people like agents listen to this.
[00:16:43] FAWN: They're gonna think I'm, I have a terrible voice. But so, so yesterday we were at a coffee shop in town and our youngest went to the bathroom and as she comes back, we're having coffee, we're enjoying time, and then, They leave, like, where are you going nothing'll, be right back.
[00:17:06] FAWN: So they went into the bathroom and took a picture. They texted us. They texted me, and this is what it said. Are you ready?
[00:17:16] FAWN: So here's the message. It's written by F. Scott Fitzgerald. It says, and mind you, this is, I guess it was hanging in the bathroom. Oh boy. Which, which is interesting because if you come to our house, our bathroom has all these beautiful frames in it, and every frame has a beautiful quote or directions for life.
[00:17:38] FAWN: Um, so it's interesting that the coffee shop did the same thing apparently. I've never been to their bathroom. But anyway, here's what was hanging on the wall, and it's by F. Scott Fitzgerald. It says: "For what it's worth, it's never too late, or in my case, too early to be whoever you wanna be.
[00:17:57] FAWN: There's no time limit. Start whenever you want. You can change or stay the same. There are no rules to this thing. You can make the best or the worst of it. I hope you make the best of it. I hope you see things that startle you. I hope you feel things you've never felt before. I hope you meet people who have a different point of view. I hope you live a life you're proud of, and if you're not, I hope you have the courage to start over again." our youngest sent this to me the next day.
[00:18:40] FAWN: So I'm passing it along too. If there's anybody out there who feels like I do, here's another message for
[00:18:47] FAWN: us.
[00:18:48] FAWN: Thank you. Thank you. Our beautiful little child. And thank you f Scott Fitzgerald. Thank you, Michelle. Silence. Thank you.
[00:19:02] FAWN: Thank you, Henri Cartier-Bresson, Hank Wessel. Thank you to the people who are so wildly perceptive that they can recognize in you the magic that you are. That we are. Thank you. You are the best friends.
[00:19:20] MATT: And thank you to all the people who we come across who remind us
[00:19:25] MATT: of this stuff. Like, oh, I don't know, the gentleman we bumped into at that restaurant yesterday who had just completed his first month in a new, totally new profession.
[00:19:36] MATT: The right time to start anything was 10 years ago. The second right time is right now. Because it's never over.
[00:19:45] MATT: Love you guys. Thanks. Thank you for listening and please if you could leave a review, a nice kind review and reach out to us. Thank you, Michelle, for always reaching out. Thank you, Wendy. Thank you Martin. Thank you Amy. Thank you. Everyone listening, I'm so grateful. Thank you so much. Love you. Talk to you in a few days.
[00:20:07] MATT: Be well. Bye.
