"Connecting Across Differences: The Art of Making New Friends"

Friends Unflitered - How to Make Friends with people Opposite from You Fawn: [00:00:00] Welcome back, everybody! So, the last few weeks, Matt and I have been talking about, going outside of your comfort zone, tech wise, as well as people wise. How do we make new friends? How, that's what we've talked about for all these years, right? But how do we make new friends that are so different from us? Opposites. And that's our goal, is to do that, to make friends that are completely opposite from you. What does that even mean? Does that mean? I mean, we started talking about, well, where would we go? And then Matt came up with some stuff that would be opposite to us, and I'm like, I'm not going there. Like, I think what you brought up was like, Well, maybe we should go to a gun show. I'm like, Oh, no, but here's where we're in MATT: such a polarized environment that yeah, it feels like It can feel so drastic on either side, but [00:01:00] maybe it's enough for us to go to a baseball game Fawn: No, that's right up your alley. MATT: Is it? I don't like baseball. Fawn: What? The first few when's the last time MATT: I watched a baseball game Fawn: guys when we were starting to date Matt took me to a base. No, I took you you took MATT: exactly you took me. Okay, that's your fault Fawn: my friend had These box tickets like tickets that are for the super lucky people who are like season ticket holders so We go and match By the way, you already had, like, one of those baseball jerseys. That's true, I did, for the Milwaukee MATT: Brewers. Greatest name in professional sports. Why would you even have Fawn: that if you say you're not into baseball? I was MATT: making way too much money, and I thought they had the best name in professional sports. And I was gonna turn it into a cycling jersey ish thing. I was gonna put patches and stuff on it. And I let that go. Fawn: You know how in sports people get all, um, MATT: Gussied up? [00:02:00] Fawn: No, they get violent. They MATT: do, yes. That was an ugly scene, wasn't it? Fawn: So, we were sitting Were the brewers playing? MATT: Yes, the brewers were playing. Fawn: But they were playing someone MATT: They were not the home team. Fawn: I guess we were sitting where the home team people were? MATT: Season ticket holders. Fawn: And Matt goes up there, and you know, I'm a photographer, so back then I always carried cameras on me. He's like, Ooh, take a picture of me. So he went and posed, and like, Puffed up his chest and like his big brewers jersey that was very fancy like very one of those are expensive ones Right. It was not cheap. It was MATT: it was Fawn: a MATT: replica But go ahead Fawn: and he puffed up Puffed out his chest and like proudly posed with his arm with his fist on his leg in the MATT: Superman pose Fawn: Superman posing it And all of a sudden, I thought we were going to get killed. MATT: All these people, Fawn: we were surrounded by people that started [00:03:00] booing Matt. And I got scared because they get violent. Because shortly before or after that, we went to a hockey game. Well, MATT: hockey is completely different. And again, Fawn: I was terrified. I'm like, this is why I hate sports. Like, I will never go to one of these things again, especially with you, Matt. And when you talk about going to the Super Bowl or something, I'm like, Oh, hell no, you're not going. MATT: Superbowl is probably the safest one to go to because the minimum amount for a ticket is like over a thousand dollars now And it's never in, the host city is never one of the teams that's playing. Fawn: So are you saying rich people don't fight like that? No, MATT: what I'm saying though is the stadium is probably gonna be divided in half by each team. Again, divided in half. Which makes it harder to, there's less support for people showing their butt and you're more likely to Uh, get, I'm sorry, you're, you're, you're more likely to get support from people. If [00:04:00] somebody does start to do something tricky. Fawn: Okay. So what were we, we, we totally digressed. MATT: Absolutely. Fawn: So we're, we're talking about making friends that are opposite from you. Yes. Um. Wow. MATT: Wow. Indeed. Fawn: So you started to do some research. You're always looking at what psychologists are doing. MATT: Yeah, for whatever reason it seems like they try really hard to figure stuff like that out. Fawn: There's so much going on. There is. These studies really bother me because I'm like, whoa, there are people starving and people dying. Can't you focus this energy and this money on saving people's lives right now instead of like, these B. S. like Things, you know, and we've talked about this on our show before. And yet the Facebook MATT: is, you know, going around trying to perfect their algorithm to sell us more stuff and make the site more sticky, so. And they spend a lot more money than [00:05:00] psychologists do, so. Be upset with Facebook. Fawn: All right, I'll just be upset with everybody, how about that? MATT: All right, sounds good. Fawn: All right, so. You read some studies. What was the thing you like came up with? First of all, it's like 345 in the morning. I think it was earlier than MATT: that. Fawn: 330 a. m. Good morning. You're like, I just I just I just read this thing and I'm like, uh, and I said, uh, because MATT: It's 345 in the morning. No, Fawn: I was already awake. No, it was because I was like, I can't, these studies. Like We've talked about this, how they're so biased anyway. They can MATT: be. They can be biased towards, like, college students and Fawn: But pray tell, what did you find out? Let's just start the conversation. What did you find out? One of the things that you found out, tell me. You want to talk about? Or tell our friends. MATT: Curious people live longer? Is that the one? [00:06:00] Do you want to talk about pens and boxes? Fawn: No, well, let's talk about both. Let's talk about the curious thing first, because I think that that is a beautiful thing, is to be curious. Curious. , there are some curious people that totally get on my nerves because they ask way too many probing questions instead of just letting me be and knowing who I am from observation. The questions that they, that some people come up with that are so contrived really bother me. But I did hear something from again, my voiceover community, someone said be interested, not interesting, which basically means. Listen to what the person is doing. Listen to what they're saying. Listen to them, instead of being the smart one, or instead of being the one with the stories, listen. Be interested, not interesting. Which kind of, it made me think of that when you said, curious people live longer. [00:07:00] MATT: Yes, yes, but it's really hard to, you can't contrive curiosity and what you're talking about right there. Be interested, not interesting. Yeah. Dale Carnegie was talking about that in how to win friends and influence people, but he stuck the word and this is trick. This is the tricky part, genuinely interested in people and there's a genuineness and so if you're not, don't. I'm not gonna pretend like you are because it's gonna suck. Fawn: Like I think of certain family members when we go to their house, or we used to go to their house. MATT: What books are you reading? Fawn: It was like a list, you could tell they came up with a list that had nothing to do with the conversation, but they were so afraid of maybe an awkward pause or whatever, they wanted to control the situation. So , they rehearsed the list of questions. And as I was being asked these questions, I knew it had nothing to do with me. It was just their standard form. It felt like I was on an interview, rather than humans getting to know each other, or a [00:08:00] possible future family getting to know each other. It really bothered MATT: me. And they certainly weren't keeping track of your answers, so they could circle back to them. Fawn: Oh! I remember somebody did, because they asked me what my favorite author was, or who my favorite author was, or what book I was reading, and they did not like my answer, you know? Well, yes, MATT: but did they promptly forget about it? Fawn: No, they, well, I don't know about promptly, but They haven't MATT: brought it back up, have they? Fawn: No, but I remember immediately, I was ridiculed MATT: Right. For it. Not You were immediately ridiculed, but Not even Fawn: ridiculed, but saying how stupid that is. MATT: Hey o! Because it was like, again People. Fawn: I never said it was your folks. But there you go. But it was. Yes it was. Yeah. I said Ralph Waldo Emerson and your dad did not like that. But now it makes sense to me because he's such a far right person and obviously I was very far left. MATT: And since Fawn and I are opposites. Fawn: We are kinda. You know. But like it [00:09:00] offended him. Like, what, what would have, never mind, that's another conversation, I was going to say, well, what would he have liked? MATT: Genuinely interested. Now, getting back to pens and boxes, gotta love psychologists, right? No, Fawn: wait, go back. Why do they live longer, did they say? MATT: No, it's just one of those, like, data points. Keep that in mind, folks. Oh, fantastic. Fawn: Okay, go ahead. MATT: Yes. Fawn: What, I would, I would say that Katt Williams will disagree with that statement. You know how he said certain people run towards danger? Right. Because they're curious? Mm hmm. Whereas you should just run away? Like, what are you being curious for? You hear a sound, go the other way. But like MATT: But you're talking in a world where we were getting hunted by saber toothed tigers. Right. And or we didn't know which mushrooms were poisonous. So odds are it's okay. Fawn: Which one is okay? MATT: To go ahead and run towards the strange sound or be [00:10:00] curious about the strange sound. Fawn: It's okay in the world of saber toothed tigers? In the world MATT: of today. In the world of saber toothed tigers, it's a bad idea. Oh, gotcha, gotcha. Stay with your buddy. Got it, got it, okay. But anyways, but that's only one of those gross generalizations that's gross. But anyways. So, psychologists being psychologists, figure out the most Ridiculous ornery tests you can possibly imagine. So imagine you walk into a room and they're like, Oh, you know what? We're not quite ready for you yet to begin the real test to begin the test. But just to keep you interested, we have this box of pens. Group A was given a box of pens and was told none of these pens work. Group B was given a box of pens and told every single pen in here is going to give you an electric shock. Group C, third group, was given the box of pens and told half of these pens will shock you and half of them won't. Group C had to figure out which pens would shock you and not. It's kind of wired into our DNA, [00:11:00] even though there was nothing but negative feedback around it. And as a matter of fact, I have had to train myself that if somebody goes, Oh my god, this smells terrible, smell this. I say no, but it took effort for me not to be like, it smells terrible. Ooh, let me check that out It's like what are you mental? No, just stay away. If somebody says something smells bad Believe them. Fawn: I'm totally curious. I want to smell it MATT: exactly but but believe them it's gonna smell terrible Fawn: Well, I wonder what kind of terrible maybe it's it's terrible to you, but I like it Maybe I want to share the experience with you. But anyways, MATT: let's circle this back to friendship. Shall we? All right, so I think step one is certainly to be curious and, and to step outside of a comfort zone. This is how you meet people who are different than you. And that can be going, you're gonna [00:12:00] hate this, going to a baseball game. Who's sitting next to you? Who is, you know, across the way, who is, they're already determining, and I don't know which way it goes, but they're determining that certain, if you have certain political affiliations, you go to Starbucks. Other political affiliations, , you go to other coffee places. Fawn: Wait, who are they? I think this is your crowd. MATT: This is they. This is the psychologists. Really? They're determining, yes. Fawn: You came up with, we came up with this theory a few months ago. Right. Because Matt used to go to Starbucks. But MATT: I read it on like Huffington Post. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Fawn: But then now. Matt hangs out with these guys at the gas station. At the gas station. When I first heard this, when we moved to town. Gas station MATT: coffee? It's like gas station sushi, right? Ew, Fawn: like what? MATT: Scary. Fawn: You know, like, you would not MATT: It's scary. Fawn: But these guys, manly guys. Hang out at the coffee shop every morning and have Hang out at MATT: the gas station every morning. I'm Fawn: sorry, gas station. There's not even a seat. They stand around [00:13:00] and people are coming in and buying petrol for their cars. And they're also MATT: buying energy drinks and chips and Whatever it is Fawn: you get in those, , quick, gasoline service stations. Then there are a bunch of like these men who are just standing there, bunch of MATT: randos Fawn: having coffee. Having coffee, and there's no barista. It's just a machine that dispenses coffee, right? Yes. And it's super cheap. Yes. But yeah, like they're totally different than, politically different than someone who would go to a Starbucks MATT: and, and we, and honestly, they, you would think, anyway, we, everybody says this, but there is a certain running of the gamut going on and we, I do get. One of the guys is very to the right, another of the guys is very to the left, but we don't talk. And here's part of the key, we don't do a lot of talking about politics. And if somebody feels the need to talk about it, there's a lot of smile, nod, move on. [00:14:00] It's not a lot of argument. And if somebody is going to refute something, they're going to refute it once quietly and move on. So if the other person wants to keep hammering it, cause people come in. Cause we know, Oh my God, I know. It feels like I know half the town we live in now. Our Congress critter stops or our state representative stops by and she recognizes and knows me. But anyways. But like, we know lots of people. Yeah, Fawn: because everybody, I mean, hello, welcome to America, you need to have a car. Yes. So that's an intersect, intersecting point. Intersection point, exactly. Everyone, because everyone needs at this, at this moment, everyone needs, I keep wanting to say petrol. Yeah. Gasoline. Gasoline. MATT: And like, it's like, teachers, nurses. Fawn: Everybody. Mothers, mothers. MATT: Yes, uh, but what am I thinking? We had a runner in the other, uh, [00:15:00] like a, somebody who just came off an 11 mile run came in who was training for marathons. A lot of people come in and, you know, we're, well, you don't know, but we're a very social bunch and so conversations get struck, struck up. Fawn: What an interesting place. Now I have another addition now to my theory that, you know, like that movie, um, my favorite movie. Wings of desire. Mm hmm. I think that's what gave me the idea of thinking Wow, there are certain there are certain parts on the planet where everyone intersects because it's yes It's truly an intersecting point and I came up with a theory myself that Airports are that way bus stations train stations libraries Um, coffee shops. Back then. That was before all these coffee shops sprouted. That was before Starbucks. I started to think, [00:16:00] Wow, this is where everyone comes together. Because everybody needs to eat. Everybody moves around. Travels. Um, everybody gets together. that needs to go to the library at some point. But these are places where you find people from everywhere. And it's a neutral ground where everyone can come together. So, like, in this movie, these angels would, meet at the library, right? But it was like, It was, , a place where you weren't so affected by the normal daily routines. It was a place that was the eye of the storm. So everything is happening around you, everything is spinning, but at the center everything is quiet. And a place to reflect or know, okay, what, in which direction am I going to go to now? So that's, I just thought it was so beautiful. Anyway, so now adding the [00:17:00] gas station to that, for now anyway. MATT: And there you have it. Yes, exactly. Exactly. And what we're talking, what I'm talking about here though is not necessarily meeting your opposite, but just meeting people you wouldn't normally meet, I think is kind of the key. Because you have similarities with people. at your church, you have, which, but you can still meet people who are very opposite you, you have people who are going to be, you're going to have one factor, one degree of, similarity anywhere you go. So if you go to the library and it's, 1130 AM on a Tuesday, well, obviously this is someone who's not required to be at work at 1130 on a Tuesday. If you meet somebody. This is somebody who has an interest in going to the library. Not everybody does. And, you start seeing more and more degrees of similarity. But the degree of similarity, you're right, you called it at the gas station [00:18:00] at Um, at a coffee place, even though they are tending to skew politically now just because a lot of it has to do with cost. But like, these are people who want caffeine in the morning. These are people who need to put gas in their car. So then the real trick is moving from that to having reoccurring kind of experiences with these people. And that's the tricky part. That's the part I'd like to know about. Like, how do you build on that? How do you build on a simple conversation? Or if you get invited to a party that's truly cross sectional, how do you transition that? Which is fun. And I think part of it boils down to, taking a look at, uh, what was his name? It was Dale Carnegie who wrote how to win friends and influence people. He wrote that forever ago and everybody focuses on kind of the influence people because power, but how to win friends. And one of the things he said is take a genuine interest in people. And I know [00:19:00] we said, I think it was last week. You said, be interested, not interesting. And that's true too, but if you have a genuine interest in people, then you are interested. And people love, interestingly enough, people love to talk about themselves. They do. And so, you get the dopamine hit from that. You get the dopamine hit from that. You can get a dopamine hit, from, from learning new things. So these can play into each other. So that's one thing. Another thing that makes you instantaneously more likable is if you own up to a mistake that you've made, it makes you more endearing, like, Oh my goodness, I can't believe I spilled that coffee. And they prove this in a different psychological study where they show people a video or no audio of a guy who was answering questions like trivia questions. And he was getting like 90 percent of them, right? So oftentimes, a [00:20:00] know it all will come across as being arrogant or being regardless of how they really are, but in some of them, they cut into the audio. The sounds of a cup of coffee spilling. Or a cup of a liquid spilling. And the people who heard that all of a sudden, this guy who was super smart answering all these questions, right. Became more likable. Because we like people who make a mistake and own it. And I know it doesn't sound like that in the course of the experiment, but he does say, Oops, I'm sorry folks, I spilled my coffee. Or it was announced that this super genius guy spilled Fawn: coffee. Well, it's showing vulnerability. And in showing vulnerability, you're showing that you have an open heart. That your arms are open. Right. That you're not, uh, Defending. Who can be friends with someone that's constantly defending? MATT: Or constantly right. The Fawn: same thing right? Constantly right is exhausting. You're defending your moral or your intellectual whatever it [00:21:00] is, right? Mm MATT: hmm. And another very interesting thing they found out is that if you have positive small talk with people, so if I say, Oh my god, that outfit or those shoes that person was wearing, oh man, I could see myself in those. Those are, those are something else. Those are awesome. They hear that, and they hear it, you hear it intellectually on the level of Someone's feet like this guy's shoes, but then they also hear you're saying I'm awesome in a positive way, though They take the energy from the statement that you put out and they give it back to you So if you complain you're like, oh, I can't believe how high taxes are in this town And all of a sudden people hear all that negativity and they put it completely on you in the course of small talk Even if they agree with you that taxes are too high Emotionally, they're gonna attach a negative [00:22:00] emotion to you, Fawn: right? You don't want to be associated with that, but even if they agree with you, yeah Yeah, yeah, because you're tagging yourself as that. So it's like a banner that's on you because you talked about it. It's much like the law of attraction. You're now, you're a billboard for this negative thing. MATT: What people see you as you. People, are paying attention even though it seems like we're not. People are paying attention, not necessarily sadly to what you say, but they do pay attention to how you say it. And if you say, taxes are too high, you say that, you never say that like, taxes are too high. You don't say it that way, ever. You say, uh, there's a down note at the end, like, uh, not a, eee, note. So there you go. So honestly, for those of us, for those of you, for those of our audience who have Apple TV, blast away. And we've talked about it. If you take a look, it's, it's like you [00:23:00] need to channel your inner, like, Ted Lasso. Because if you think about it, those who've seen it, I mean, he gets lambasted by Roy Kent. And he's like, Oh, and he talks to , his foil, coach. And he's like, Oh, he hates us now. Just imagine how mad he's going to be when he likes us. He didn't quite say that, but it was close to that. Like he took energy, took positive energy after this guy lambasts him and calls him a joke. Ooh, he's mad at us now. I can't imagine how he's going to feel when he likes us. Right. But that's just it. I mean, he's spun everything in a positive light and he genuinely curious and interested. A taxi driver tells him about his father's restaurant and so he goes for starters. So he actually makes that effort. And then he orders it the way the family would order it and tells him it's brilliant even though it destroys his bowels. Fawn: And, you know, that's a perfect example of doing something [00:24:00] different. Out of your comfort zone. Eating something that you normally wouldn't eat. Right. Going to a restaurant you normally wouldn't go to. So here are some great examples we can do. Yeah. MATT: And exercise those muscles and exercise them in all ways. In our last show, I was talking about taking a look at both sides of an issue. That's important. That's an important muscle to exercise because if you exercise that muscle in on your computer and privacy of your own room, your own home, you're probably going to be more likely to exercise that out in the world. And you're going to have more interesting conversations and you're going to learn interesting things about people. I mean, oh my goodness, the things you can find out about people. I mean, I fervently believe, and maybe this is a lot of my curiosity, that everybody has two or three really interesting stories to tell, at least. Fawn: this reminds me of a few episodes we did on being, Psychologically fit. It was a term you came up with. Oh dear. Psychological fitness or something like that. Yes, I did. We did a [00:25:00] show on it. And it's like, that's what it is. Because, I mean, I'm thinking about certain generations. In our family that refuse to even travel or even talk about other cultures. Because they get so offended. But it is like a muscle. It is like your physical body if you don't move it, you atrophy, yes. And so This is like becoming totally physically fit and culturally fit and psychologically fit. MATT: And maybe that has a lot to do with why curious people live longer. Fawn: And why they are interesting. MATT: True too. Fawn: Because you're growing your circle., as time goes on, I think that if you don't do that, the circle gets smaller and smaller. MATT: Until it's a circle of one. Fawn: Yeah. And then that person. How can they grow, you know? It becomes harder, I think, to step outside of that other circle. Keep expanding your circle. But if [00:26:00] you're used to it, you're like a super athlete. And it's easy for you. But I think, much like last week we were talking about tech, About how can we, widen our circles in tech so that we are aware of things around us. Right. News that we normally wouldn't get because we're being spoon fed due to whatever algorithms, whatever they're sending us. And that's all we see it's the same thing. MATT: By and large, yes. Fawn: That's a lot to think about. It is. But, what else can we do? We can take a class. I mean, that's how you and I met. MATT: We can, we can take a class, we can join a group, we can Fawn: Well, like, like a class. Like, something that is Okay, so I was studying martial arts, and I was studying the kind of, the kinds of martial arts where you're breaking things and it's, it seems violent and, you know. MATT: Seems? Fawn: Um, well, I think all martial arts is really, like, very spiritual and, there's a certain amount of, respect that's, that's at the core. Which, which is fun because [00:27:00] I MATT: think at its core, I think Aikido might be the most violent martial art. But that's a whole other story. Well, so Fawn: I was surrounded by all these martial artists. Mm hmm. And I was training with them. Right? I was the new kid. I was like the, the little sister, the little sister with a lot of like, you know, I was just, you know, whatever I was, I was learning, but I was so involved in it. I loved it so much. And then a few of my buddies were like, you should study Aikido. I'm like, no way. MATT: It's a joke. Fawn: No. Yeah. I thought they were seriously joking. Right? Cause these were like really tough muscle guys who were like, phenomenal martial artists that also worked in the movies. They were so good. You know what I'm saying? They were like, they were phenomenal, very talented. And for them to say, Oh, you should study Aikido. At first I was like, what? And then I looked at it. I'm like, are you kidding me? No, it was so opposite, right? But that's where I met [00:28:00] my true love. That's where I met was my true love. But I had to do something opposite. And it's interesting you say that at its core Aikido is probably the most violent. It's interesting because I was saying a few shows back that, I have some friends, one friend in particular, who's totally opposite me politically, but yet we have everything else in common. Right? And I'm like, whoa. But the more time has gone by, I'm understanding what she's saying, I'm understanding why she believes what she believes. Do you know what I'm saying? So we're both coming to center in a way and I'm understanding that there is no divide. Like we're, I don't know how to explain it because I'm still trying to figure it out. But like, it's interesting because, it's like a polar thing that shifts. What you think is north is now south and south becomes north. Like it just tilts, your experience tilts, your impressions of people tilt. People tilt in general. [00:29:00] And the way you described Aikido. Yeah, I could see that. Anyway, taking a class. MATT: Or joining a group? Fawn: Well, joining a group is too, too much, I think. It can be. It's too much of a thing to join something. But if you're taking a class, you're at least sticking your toe in the water. MATT: Well, if you take a class, you're meeting every week. If you join a group, odds are they're meeting every week. I don't understand what's the real difference going on. A class, you're just Fawn: learning. You're not committing to anything. You're starting to learn how to do something, but a group is a way of life forever, I feel like. Wow. MATT: Okay. You've obviously never quit a group. Fawn: Um, I don't think I've joined a group. I'm not a joiner. MATT: Be a joiner. Fawn: No, I'd like to take a class. Baby steps. Baby steps. Okay, I just MATT: remember as a kid. As a kid. Uh, when I, when I was younger, I would play Dungeons and Dragons. Dun, dun, dun. Surprise, surprise. Welcome to Nerdland, right? But, um, We would have people in and out all the time. I belong to this group [00:30:00] and we would have somebody show up for two weeks and then disappear. Fawn: Okay. A group to me sounds very closed minded because this is our group. It's a click. MATT: It is a click. It's hard to, but this is our class. Fawn: We're just going to teach you. There's no commitment. It's a certain amount of weeks. Potato, potato, maybe even just one time just to get your toes wet. Just. MATT: Join something. How's that? Fawn: I'm not a joiner, but I'd like to take a class. Just join something. I'd like to take a class. I don't want to join. MATT: Join a class. Fawn: Okay, alright. Alright, that's it, guys. MATT: Alright, she's going to beat me up now. Fawn: No. Bye bye, everybody. Have a beautiful everyday. MATT: Be well. Fawn: Talk to you later.