The Favor

This episode came about as we had a guest that was so hateful and wrongly accused Matt of "manipulation" because he likes to present people with favors. Wanting to clear things up from that conversation, Fawn wanted to make sure Matt explained (before he was so rudely cut off), one of the many ways to really connect with people.  

This one act is something that you can do, to kindly, respectfully, and compassionately relate to people. And it's a simple thing; one that is really important for everyone to know about. This is also to correct a wrong that was done to Matt (referring to a rude guest we had).

We're talking about a favor.  Do you know what "favor" actually means?

the etymology, the origin, the Latin which is spelled FAVERE.

The etymology, the background, the root of favor originally means: show kindness. Isn't that beautiful?

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The Favor - TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Matt: Doin' a favor?

[00:00:01] Fawn: What'd you say

[00:00:04] Matt: doing a favor?

[00:00:06] Fawn: This is another followup show. I feel like too, um, a conversation that we had that I feel like I need to fix, , sometimes you talk to people and it really messes you up,

[00:00:19] Matt: indeed.

[00:00:20] Fawn: I mean, I mean, I mean, my God, so there's something that I've been.

Wanting to clear up from another conversation, you were trying to say something and I knew what you were about to say, but you were so abruptly cut off and disrespected. And this time it wasn't me.

[00:00:42] Matt: People find the need to, put themselves too much in the conversations and try and cut things short

[00:00:47] Fawn: and yet complain that they didn't get a chance to talk.

But you were trying to explain something. It's a way; it's one of the many ways [00:01:00] that you have figured out to really connect with people, Matt. And I think it's really sweet and you started to explain it and this person completely mid sentence cut you off and told you that you're being manipulative.

[00:01:16] Matt: Yep.

[00:01:19] Fawn: It, it was such a weird conversation. So I want to do a show today on this, this one act one of the many acts that you do to kindly respectfully compassionately relate to people. And it's a simple thing, and I think it's really important for everyone to, to know about this and also correct or wrong that was done to you. ( referring to a rude guest we had)..

So today we're talking about a favor. I looked it up. Do you know what a favor actually means that the background of where a favor came in?

[00:01:55] Matt: It's got a walk

around favorite,

right?

[00:01:57] Fawn: No, I mean, yes, down the [00:02:00] line, but the etymology, , the origin is the Latin one, which is spelled F a V E R E.

And guess what it means,

[00:02:13] Matt: ice cream.

[00:02:15] Fawn: The etymology, the background, the root of favor originally means: show kindness. Isn't that beautiful? There's something that you do that is really sweet. And someone didn't hear you out right away. And started to say that is the most manipulate manip. I can't even say the word.

How do you say it? Manipulative thing to do; it is so wrong. And this person was just so adamant about whatever their point of view was. Can you please explain. To all of our friends out there. Good morning. Good evening. Good afternoon. Hello everyone. By the way. So Matt, take it over. I mean, don't take it off.

I'm not going to let you take it over, but you know what I [00:03:00] mean?

[00:03:01] Matt: Well, we were talking about when you initially meet someone and it was much more of a. In my, in my head, it was much more of a quote unquote professional kind of a scenario where maybe you're at a, get together for, technologists in my world, you know, like a meet-up , and then you, and you meet, you meet someone randomly didn't you

[00:03:18] Fawn: originally got this idea from another technologist.

I did. You did great. It was a guy Kawasaki

[00:03:25] Matt: guy, Kawasaki. I didn't want to necessarily call him out, but yes, I don't know.

[00:03:30] Fawn: We love the guy,

[00:03:31] Matt: cause I got smacked on it, but anyways, so you're in a smacked

[00:03:35] Fawn: on it, but he's (meaning the rude guest)

wrong.

[00:03:36] Matt: You're in a scenario, you're meeting with a bunch of like-minded individuals and let's say a professional kind of gathering organization and you exchange business cards and you have a brief little, one of those brief, little polite chats that you have, in the midst of this meeting where you're going between learning about this thing and then taking a small break, learning about that thing, then there's a raffle, then everybody leaves. That's how it, a tech thing [00:04:00] tends to go. So you have a brief conversation and you want to, you want to get to know this person better. Well, how the heck do you do that? What is, how do you get in there, as it were.

And there's obviously there's plenty of options. You

[00:04:15] Fawn: rephrase that. How do you get in there? That's just so wrong. I know it sounds, it sounds like a very outdated, like date, uh, thing for a man to say it's just feels wrong. But I think what you're saying is how do you connect? How do you create

[00:04:32] Matt: a bond? How do you, how do you even start connecting?

Because you basically, you can take, you can take the easy way out and you can. Um, put the card in your drawer and look at it again in three months and then throw it away. You can do that. And that is certainly something that is, is a possibility you can also, I don't know, maybe email the person with, Hey, it was great.

I really enjoyed meeting you the other day and blah, blah, blah, [00:05:00] and call it there. And you know, that that has potential to work. But what Guy Kawasaki said is if you follow up via like an email or a text and you have an ask, you ask them for something, something small, something, maybe insignificant something, they can help you with something that would be easy for them .

Greater likelihood that A, they'll respond, B they'll respond well. And C, at some point, they'll seek a favor from you as well. You begin that you're, you're beginning a dialogue you're beginning of true dialogue, instead of you just kind of monologuing and hoping that they'll monologue.

[00:05:39] Fawn: I mean, that's so basic and so profound

because we're here for each other. We're here to support one another. We need each other. And I think that we've all become, so it's been, we've become so independent. We've become, well, what I'm trying to say is it's been ingrained in us [00:06:00] to be so, autonomous and do everything yourself. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

Don't accept any help do it on your own. Do not accept charity, like, like it goes to the length of charity and that being a really bad thing, a shameful thing that even the slightest favor, if you were like, it's just interesting how this guy, totally, this person totally reacted in such a negative way before you even had a chance to explain your theory of favor.

Doing someone a favor, a solid, right. A teeny tiny one. He had such a bad reaction to that. And if I look at this person who said that they actually seem very, um, antisocial is the wrong word for it. Cause it's like a clinical term, but it's very, uh, it's not it's unfriendly.

[00:06:55] Matt: Well, it's very closed. It's

[00:06:57] Fawn: thank you.

I would say, oh my God, thank you [00:07:00] so closed. And really we need each other and we forgot. How to party together. We forgot how to entertain. We forgot all the little tiny nuances that create community that create a bond and why, because for some reason, Once again, I'll say it again. It's been ingrained in us to not connect it's in the park, benches, even it's in it's in every aspect of society.

When I look around, if you take a look at park benches, they're not there for people to sit and enjoy each other's company and to just sit and be it's like a Memorial to a dead person. It's sad. And I've always said this. God forbid, a person who is without a home is sitting on that bench. The police will come and remove them.

So it's not really intended for humanity to rest and to partake in the sitting and enjoying and [00:08:00] resting on this, on this, on this thing, this bench. So how are we going to handle the whole concept doing someone a favor and having someone do you a favor it's like the it's become this negative thing where you're indebted to someone.

Do you know what I mean? And there are examples everywhere. Like if you look at that show, "Big Bang Theory", Sheldon Cooper's character gets so upset if anyone gives him a present. Why? Because he feels like he has to immediately return the exact quantity of what was given and he hates that, uh, lording over him.

So he has to immediately pay the person back. And, and it's not about manipulation. It's not about having a leg up on someone. It's about connecting and helping. Correct? Absolutely. And what you've always [00:09:00] told me about this favor thing is it's something so tiny that doesn't require the person getting out of the routine or they're not going on in their way to do something. It's something that is so easy for them. And they can say no, but it's something it's an ask.

[00:09:15] Matt: Correct, exactly. Case in point. Um, I, I worked in an office, a bunch of consultancies and whatever, and we had another business actually move into our space and.

I went and I talked to the guy and he was a, he was a really nice guy. And you know what, when you talk to somebody and you ask them about their business, oh my God. Especially if he, this guy was a CEO and he was fairly new to it and all the rest of it, I wouldn't say he was naive or whatever.

He'd been serial entrepreneur, but he was excited to talk about his business. And I asked him some interesting questions about it. And then. Now we were kind of in that situation where we're kind of enforced to be next to each other, almost like in school, [00:10:00] because we're in the office every day, but we did, we did lunch and learns and I asked him if he'd do a lunch and learn, now, that's an interesting ask because now all of a sudden I'm asking for an hour of his time, but.

It's him educating it's him talking through his problems and it's him, you know? So I wouldn't say that was a tiny ask, but he was all for it. He was like, absolutely. It's figured out let's schedule. Let's get it done. Boom. We have potential now to deepen our relationship.

[00:10:36] Fawn: Exactly. And that's just one example in business, but think about it.

Like I I'm thinking about all the times that I've asked for a little favors, like maybe now this is a woman thing, but like my God, the tiny little favors I have asked, well, for me are big. But like, for them, they're an expert in something [00:11:00] like, I remember when a friend got a sewing machine and she made all these beautiful projects.

Right. And I'm like, okay, I have always been interested in fashion and putting things together. And I never imagined I would have my own sewing machine. And you remember a few years ago, I got a teeny tiny, portable sewing machine for like $30. And the simplest thing, I didn't know how to do. I didn't know how to thread the needle right in the sewing machine.

And so I asked a neighbor friend, can you show me how to thread a needle? And she got very defensive and shot me down immediately, which is fine, but she told me to Google it and you know what, I, I could have Googled it, but I wanted the interaction with her because I really loved hanging out with her.

She was so inspiring and she was right there. She was at [00:12:00] our home, Google it. Um, I dunno. I feel like when I ask stuff, I always get that response. Just Google it.

[00:12:10] Matt: Well, yeah, we deferred to this concept of a global experts in life and there's liabilities and there's, and it's all gotten like ferociously, I think kind of messed up because, you know, at what point did it become.

Um, I can't show you how I do it because how I do it might be wrong. I don't know. I don't know what goes through the heads of people.

[00:12:34] Fawn: I think it's that. I think that people, it's kind of like a hoarding, you know, you, you do your thing and you don't want to share it with anyone else because maybe they'll they'll have something over you.

Like there'll be better than you or you're taking something away. I dunno. I dunno. I wonder if that's a thing happening with some women is they really don't want to help out other women. Now having said that I [00:13:00] have some amazing women and friends where we support each other so immensely, like fiercely even, but in a very good way, not in a, like a violent, fierce way, but fierce, you know what I mean?

Like we're here to help each other because we're of the same mindset that we belong together that we need each other. Do you know what I mean? That them helping me is me helping them. It's just a continuous circle. But, um, yeah, I D I don't know. I don't know what this whole issue is, and I don't think this person cutting you off is even aware of it.

Do you think he's aware of how closed he is and how. I mean, he just wanted to shut you down and like tell you how wrong it is.

[00:13:53] Matt: There is quid pro quo thing. I think that happens though as well with favors. And I think maybe he got caught on the bad [00:14:00] side of that, where somebody had come to him for a favor and he had done it.

And then they'd ask him for another favor and another favor and another favorite and another favor until he finally cut them off. There has to be a sense of

balance.

[00:14:11] Fawn: He was specifically saying that if you're using a favor to get to know someone you're incredibly manipulative, right. That's what he was saying. I know.

And it's

[00:14:22] Matt: possible that he was incredibly manipulated. That's

[00:14:24] Fawn: all, we're always trying to understand where someone's coming from, but what I'm trying to correct here is that's not what you were saying. Right. So I'm like, let's just talk about. Just you and I let's talk

[00:14:37] Matt: about it. And again, you know, we, we have a choice.

You can move from love or move from fear. If you move from love, asking for a favor is not a manipulative I'm going to, or

[00:14:52] Fawn: I'm lesser than you. I'm not lesser than you if I'm asking you for something, or if I'm asking you how to do something, can you [00:15:00] teach me this? I'm not lesser than you. I mean, it goes back to the old school yard, old, like, I don't know, what do you call it?

I forget what it's called. That one little kids are toddlers are in school. It's that daycare kind of mentality, like just honestly. And so innocently asking someone something, it has nothing to do with motives that are vicious.

[00:15:34] Matt: As a society we've moved away from the whole let's play mentality and into something a heck of a lot too serious.

[00:15:44] Fawn: So can you give other examples of little favors? We can ask someone I'm thinking like what, because come to think of it. I. To be honest with myself right now. I think I've [00:16:00] fallen into that line where I don't ask anyone for anything. I mean, especially after the whole, the needle and the sewing machine thing, that was the last straw for me.

[00:16:11] Matt: I remember back in the day, um, I would get calls from Steve. And he would ask for directions. And I would be like online looking at the directions for where he was and where he needed to go. I was like his, I was like as a little personal Siri. Oh, and this was obviously, this was a while ago, but

[00:16:30] Fawn: yeah, I remember you would do that for me too.

When I would go on photo shoots in Seattle and some areas, I didn't know, like anything and I would call you. I'm like, man, I'm lost help. I don't know how to get here. And you would have me look around and tell you where I was and then you would give me what I call like. Simple directions. Like don't tell me north or south.

I have no idea where north is. Please. Like if I'm facing [00:17:00] it, do I turn right or left? Right. But yeah. I mean, come on. Let's see other favors. I don't know. Just, it's just all about opening yourself up.

[00:17:13] Matt: I'll ask for recommendations on music from people. I will give recommendations on music for people, which is of course a scary thing for me, because my musical taste is very weird and eclectic, but everybody who likes rock and roll likes VOLBEAT if VOLBEAT, they're a Danish band.

Oh my goodness. They're good. But anyways, but it's me paying attention. It's me, you know, really seeing, you know, I try and see what I can do for them and what. I, I mostly, I see what they, what I can do for them. And that generally leads me to when I'm in a place where I need something, then I got a decent sense of directions I can go.

And, and people I can ask. And because honestly I'd [00:18:00] much rather ask a person when I'm encountering like a technical difficulty than, uh, read a boring webpage or sift through 87 people who are having the exact same problem. And nobody has it. I mean, that's what I encounter.

[00:18:13] Fawn: It's about connection. And it's about connecting to someone on a human level.

[00:18:18] Matt: Absolutely.

[00:18:18] Fawn: I want to hear your voice and it's, to me it's honoring that person. It's seeing something in them and honoring them, whether it's their expertise or it could be any aspect of them as a human being honoring that, recognizing that and honoring that. And. Saying in a way showing them that you see them.

[00:18:46] Matt: Absolutely. Absolutely. And again, I have an example. Thank God. So we have, um, so Mike, the company, I work at a lot of developers around Atlanta. Uh, some developers scattered through the states and we [00:19:00] have an interesting lease sized presence in Lithuania. Anyways, I have never in my life been to Lithuania.

I've never in my life, you know, dot, dot, dot, but I'm fearless when it comes to communicating with people. So there was a team in Lithuania we got a project from that we needed to do stuff to. So I ran into a problem. I immediately reached out. I reached out to two different people. One of them got back to me very, very quickly.

So this, this is Lena. This is the person who immediately became my favorite. I ping pong. Every time I communicate with her, it was like, I'm having a problem. Can you help? I mean, it was pretty lamentable right. But she was so helpful, so concise, so brilliant. I was like, I have to pay her back. And so I paid her back by letting her boss know she had done me, [00:20:00] solids, nothing but solids super professional, super helpful, super everything. And guess what, you know, went right back to her. And so she got to hear it too, because she knew she was a rock star. She was totally helping me out. But you know, the fact that I had spent the time to figure out what I could do, who I should talk to.

Cause I didn't know who her boss was. So I had figured out who her boss was and get in touch with him and. That. And she knows that I value what she's done for me. Absolutely.

[00:20:30] Fawn: And it's about showing vulnerability once again.

[00:20:34] Matt: And that's the scariest part, especially for developers, but yeah,

[00:20:36] Fawn: absolutely. It's a scary part as a human being, especially since we've all now been trained to not be that way to have all these walls up to be so, on our own, doing everything on our own to, to also. Always appear, whether it's in business or in real life, not real life business is real life too. But what I'm saying is, [00:21:00] you know, in reality, I don't know what, however you guys know what I'm talking about, but to show your true self and without fear of looking weak in any way, but the only way you can ever, ever have a connection is by opening up your heart and opening up your world, your life, your experiences, it's the only way to really connect. I think it's been an issue and it's more and more of an issue now, especially now with in particular, the United States having becomes so incredibly divided that it's very scary to show any part of yourself that you're trying to keep guarded for whatever reason, it could be someone finding out your political belief. It could be someone finding out [00:22:00] your financial situation or whatever it is it could be of detriment is how we're feeling. And so to open yourself up to a favor, a kindness, a gesture like that is really opening up a whole world of who you really are. And , it's scary. Why, okay. Why are you looking at me like

[00:22:22] Matt: that? I'm just listening. No, I have my own take on everything and I want to take us far away from politics. I want to take us back to Lulu to high school. It's very high.

It's very high school to be like, I don't need anybody. I'm, you know, I'm an kingdom unto myself. I'm, you know, I'm too cool for school. I'm the whole trip. And that was my whole trip in high school. I'm sorry. The early part of my high school was, yeah. I don't need anybody. And you're seeing there with teachers teaching you stuff.

[00:22:54] Fawn: Right? Right. It goes beyond high school. That's your parents right there. That is a Republican thing. Right? [00:23:00] My, well,

[00:23:00] Matt: hold on. I don't want to politicize it, but, um, cause I don't know. Cause that's just how I

[00:23:05] Fawn: grew up, how you grew

[00:23:06] Matt: up, but that's how we were raised that. You know how I grew up. I can't say as atypical anything.

It's just how I grew up

[00:23:14] Fawn: and see, I kind of have the same feeling. Please go back to what you were saying. But I also got that, but I had come from a very democratic family, an immigrant family, but learn the same thing. Don't depend on anyone else. You're here to do it all. Well, the

[00:23:29] Matt: key is, is don't depend on anyone else.

I, I absolutely agree with that statement, but I don't, you can't get there alone. So finding the people you can count on is important, but don't expect to count

on anybody.

[00:23:46] Fawn: The messages that I received, the main one was you cannot turn to anyone else. No one else will help you because they hate you is what I got.[00:24:00]

On on every level, because you're different, you look different, you, you, you cook different, your home smells different, whatever, like all the hate that's thrown at you. It's like, wow, that definitely doesn't give way to kindness to opening yourself up or to doing a favor. And it's usually. Me as an immigrant doing someone a favor because that's, what's expected of me because you know, that's, what's seen that's the stereotypical thing is I'm here to serve you.

It's no longer a favor. It's, it's an entitled thing for someone else for me to be there and we've seen it work. We've seen it a play wherever we've traveled to, you know, we'd go to, uh, into a coffee shop and you're the first person to touch the door to open the door, to go inside the coffee shop or wherever you're going and the [00:25:00] person behind you will go in front of you, assuming that you were meant to open the door for them without a look in your face to say, thank you. Nothing, just ignoring you. Like, wow. I'm an invisible force meant to make life easier for you. I'm doing you all these favors.

[00:25:18] Matt: Where you're attributing that to a systematic racism, classism.

I'm attributing that to high school and maybe I'm very wrong on this point. I don't know. I have a hard time living in a racist world, so I try hard. I try as hard as I can not to.

[00:25:37] Fawn: That's because you never had to deal with it. That's that's the conversation that is so uncomfortable for people who are you from, from the person from the Caucasian perspective, because it is, it's the same story.

See you it's so ingrained that for you is just normal life. But I had to look at it and go, [00:26:00] why is this so uncomfortable for me? Why am I feeling so sad about this? And I. You know, it, it it's. So as a matter of fact, it's so a part of life that I had to analyze it, I had to dissect it. I had to completely break it down and go, why do I feel this way?

And what's really going on here with the opening of the door. You know, I had to look at it and then look at my history, growing up in a country that I was not born in. I missed it by like a few months being born in the, on this land, but it becomes a racial issue for me because I have to look at it. I have to figure out where it comes from, but for you, it's the same thing, but you never had to really understand where that behavior came from, where that mentality came from, where that thought came from.

But we're, we're talking about the same exact thing. [00:27:00] Okay, but I know I totally just derailed

[00:27:04] Matt: you what you did in the survey. We asserted as we start getting into racial issues. I have a hard time discussing because I feel like I'm in a different,

[00:27:14] Fawn: I have a hard time discussing it because you've never had to discuss it.

You know, I, at a certain age began discussing it with fellow, other people that maybe look like me or definitely have that same situation. So let's just put that back. Thank you for letting me get that off my chest. But so in high school you were definitely like, you're not going to let anyone in please go back to what you were saying.

[00:27:48] Matt: That's just, that's just how I did. And I couldn't show vulnerability. I couldn't show weakness. I couldn't show any of that. And why is that? It's a great, yeah. Question. I want to

[00:27:58] Fawn: say a kid who said you're a [00:28:00] weak, if you sh I mean, where does that come from?

[00:28:03] Matt: There's a couple of incidents that I could probably point out.

Um, one would be, uh, junior high school. I would wait for the bus at my little bus stop until these two older kids just started picking on me before the bus. And when are you going to do, you know, I'm like

[00:28:20] Fawn: beat him up.

Well, if you were me

[00:28:22] Matt: anyways, anyway,

[00:28:25] Fawn: get the pencil.

[00:28:25] Matt: Anyways, I ended up taking a five minute walk and going up a bus stop and I didn't have any problems.

And that's just what I did, but wow. Was that week. I don't know. I think it was. And I think that that lingered with me, and I think that that being that week and, and not being, I don't know, I don't know what the right word is strong enough to stay at my normal bus stop. I don't know. I don't know what would have happened.

I don't know what wouldn't have happened. I don't know how serious or not these kids were, but I wasn't, I wasn't liking it. I wasn't having it. So I didn't. Um, and I think that started [00:29:00] to tweak me. And then when I started in, in, um, uh, Yeah, the narc decided to climb all over me the first two weeks of school.

Cool.

[00:29:09] Fawn: You guys knew who the narc was in your

[00:29:11] Matt: school? They were. Okay. So we called them the narc. They weren't undercover. They were just the security officers for the school.

[00:29:19] Fawn: See, we had like undercover people

[00:29:22] Matt: in my high school. We may have to, I don't know. No, but um, you know, this, this. We then later we called them the security sprouts, but that's a whole,

[00:29:33] Fawn: is that where it comes from?

You use that term with me all the time. That's where it comes from your high school security

[00:29:39] Matt: sprout. Um, yes, it does. It does. And I don't know who coined that. I don't know if that was me or if that was Vince, Vince thee. Now he's a, he's a sheriff, so yeah, training officer the whole bit, but anyways, shout out Vince, um, anyways, um, but climbed all over me.

And why? [00:30:00] Oh, well, because my wallet was in my front pocket and it looked like a pack of smokes because I had a key chain. It was the Lochness monster from Scotland, but it was like, in my pocket, it looked like a lighter. Right? What that Hef. Yeah. And you know, if, if I knew now, if I knew them, when I knew now, I would've said, that's fine.

You want to search me? Let's go to the office, let's get a principal involved and you know, let's do this. Right, right. Um, but you know, they were just like, what's in your pocket. I was like, Ooh, it's this versus, you know, I know my rights and you can't just arbitrarily stop and stop and search me. So let's make it official.

And let's get documentation on this.

[00:30:43] Fawn: I mean, the way kids get treated in school is, is, uh, It's horrifying. And I

[00:30:51] Matt: was this geeky dumb ass, 13 year old, no, nothing bowl haircut, [00:31:00] practically, you know, goose, doofus. Right. You know, I wasn't, you know, it was much later that grew the hair out and I wore the ripped jeans and the concert t-shirts every day.

[00:31:13] Fawn: The heavy metal. God.

[00:31:16] Matt: And I had my fedora, I would wear a fedora with bandana on it, but anyways, yeah. Um,

[00:31:20] Fawn: you know, every time someone says fedora, I think yamaka

[00:31:25] Matt: with the bandana on it, rock on anyways. Um, but I think that those two kinds of things, they, they, they, they led a lot to it. I think that, um, you know, uh, certainly in high school, there is a tendency for people to attack the weak.

And so it's hard to show yourself as weak. And I want to say that I've heard that this has changed, but it really has not. It has that bullies are bullies are bullying. Yeah.

[00:31:53] Fawn: No, it's more, um, it's I couldn't say technical. What's [00:32:00] the word I'm looking for now? It's more, you know, cyber. Yeah. There's another word I'm looking for, but yeah, the cyber

[00:32:06] Matt: it's more cyber

[00:32:07] Fawn: bullying.

It's it's happening on a different level. Um, oh my God.

[00:32:17] Matt: And we got to hear from favors it's so

[00:32:20] Fawn: it's so it's so animal kingdom. You know, like you're out in the Serengeti and you're going to be eaten. So you have to learn how to survive. I mean, through high school, I felt like it was jail for me. Well, like, like you had to survive

[00:32:38] Matt: when, when the lions come after the Gazelles, it's the week one that gets cut from the herd.

It's I don't have to run faster than the lion I have to run or faster than the bear. I have to run faster than you. It's that mentality.

[00:32:53] Fawn: It's so weird. Maybe, maybe that's the issue because the you're choosing to look at walking away as [00:33:00] weakness. Whereas for me, it's like I got stuff to do. I don't want to touch you and get involved in your messed up, um, field.

Racial bullying any kind of messed up thing. I don't even want to deal with it. If I fight you. It's, uh, you know, we we've talked about this. If we get into it fighting, it's, it's a very intimate act. You're touching each other all over. Like your bodies are in total contact. I don't even want to be near you.

Whether it's physically or with words, I don't think it's weakness to walk away. I have things to do. And I mean, look at this from one conversation, we've had to do three podcasts to, to like get over the insults and the, the toxicity of that conversation. [00:34:00] So, and that was just a conversation, but like, imagine.

I'll just say how I feel when you have a confrontation like that. It just, it will like resonate with you throughout your lifetime, unless you really release it and figure out tools in which you can truly release it from your spirit. But like, you know, it does go back to favors though, so, okay. Um, it was second grade for me and I was walking home.

And it was, it was a long walk home and all of a sudden these bullies that I really didn't even know existed in school, they were following me. And I just thought, whatever, maybe they're this, they have a new route. Cause I had my own routes to walk home. You know, like all the kids, their houses, like you always knew the route of other kids and you knew where their houses were.

Right. [00:35:00] But these kids, these big, big boys. Like way older and like big were behind me. And I knew that was not their route home. And then they started calling me and I don't remember, they didn't call me by my name. Right. And it was a threat. And the next thing I know is they got closer and closer and their words got louder and louder and uglier.

And next thing I know I'm on the ground and they're hitting me. They're like punching me. And, you know, I was a little, little kid, like little tiny girl, right. I've always been small. And so there was three of them and it was a racial thing. Second grade.

So you say you don't want to talk about politics. I've always had to deal with politics, Matt, second grade. And [00:36:00] so here's where the favor comes in. I did not ask for this, but there was this other little girl, Rachel and her route was kind of my, on the same as mine, but her house was way closer than my house.

And so here, here comes little Rachel. And she's also Caucasian, these boys, Caucasian. And somehow she was friends with them or somehow they looked up to her, even though she was also smaller than they were, but she yelled at them and said, "Hey, get off of her." And they reluctantly obeyed her and they walked away and she asked me if I was okay.

I think, I don't really remember after that point, but I thought to myself, oh, she's, she's a friend. But in her helping me out like that, she never wanted to talk to me again. Like she was always distant after that point. I'm like, wow, what is that? [00:37:00] Does she feel like she did me a solid, a favor and that she just wanted to leave it at that?

Did she feel like I would get a needy and like cling onto her as security all the time? Which I had no intention of doing. I was pissed. You know, my rage, you know, before second grade, I mean, I, I went from country to country and I would pummel, bullies. This one, I just got thrown off guard. Do you know what I mean?

Like, I don't know. I just got thrown right. In many ways, but what I'm trying to say is like, what was that? Sometimes a favor makes people. It's more separate and it goes back to what this guy was saying. Like he had such a bad reaction to you talking about doing someone a solid. So what did, what do you think that's about?

Like she seriously never talked to me again

[00:37:59] Matt: [00:38:00] again, I'll, I'll bring up my ridiculous suburban equivalent . You ready? All right. So I was in high school band. Okay. Fine band geek. Call me what you will last chair trumpet every year. Thank you so much. Um, one of the flutists in the band, her name was Angela rustic, Angela and I never talked we're same age, the whole bit, fine, whatever.

So me and my buddy Vince who's again now a sheriff, uh, would cut school six period almost everyday. Because our teachers didn't take role. Anyways, and one of the things we would do is, sometimes we go out for lunch or go get, grow, grit, go grab a bite.

And we go to McDonald's where Angela Russell worked. And if she was our cashier, she would always give us a ton of extra food. I remember we ordered whatever it is we ordered. And then she's like, and what kind of sauce do you want with that? And I was like, huh. And then I blurted something out. But cause I had no idea why she was asking me anyway and [00:39:00] she gave me chicken McNuggets.

In addition to, in addition to, in addition to. So she does this for us. And like the first time she did it, I was like, oh my God. Cause I was just like, Hey, Hey Angela, how's it gone? And you know, she was just working. She gave us extra food. I was like, what? And um, the next day I went to go talk to her. She gave the two same, two shit she gave from me before she'd done me that solid.

Just couldn't be bothered to talk to me. What the heck?. Cause I was like, I just wanted to, I was just going to say, thank you. So I was like, Hey Angela, how's it going? I mean, literally she wouldn't even say hi back. Hmm. And we would go back to her at McDonald's and she would continually give us extra food.

What heck

[00:39:48] Fawn: maybe she reached her capacity of braveness and didn't know how to proceed from there.

[00:39:54] Matt: I don't think so. I think that she could give two S's about us in general, but when she was [00:40:00] at work, she might as well, you know, whatever, I guess I don't, I honestly don't know. It confuses me to this day. I love Angela Russell.

If you're out there. Tell me what the, what the bejesus,

[00:40:11] Fawn: maybe she just didn't know how to proceed from there. Maybe she had a crush on you and she didn't know what to do after that point, or maybe she was mad at her job. And she's like, I'm just going

[00:40:21] Matt: to give stuff. Honestly, I think it was probably more about the hate of the job than the love of anything else, but still it was, it, it it's bizarre.

[00:40:32] Fawn: I dunno. I, I feel like we're. Or are we totally derailing from the whole topic of doing someone a favor??

[00:40:41] Matt: Sometimes the universe gives you a solid that, you know, the universe is saying don't repay, you know,

[00:40:50] Fawn: it should always be, it should, it's like lending money, letting someone borrow money. If you were going to let someone borrow money, [00:41:00] you deep down.

Should let it go forever and think that you're never going to get it back. And I think, I think the same with favors, right? You do someone a favor, not because you're expecting a payback. You're doing someone a favor to once again, show kindness.

[00:41:22] Matt: Yes. Right. And, or deepen a relationship this past Friday. Um, like wrestling with, with this thing, that's just brutal and there's no documentation, et cetera, et cetera.

So I called up one of my coworkers, Marshall, who I never talked to and I was like, Marshall, can I just run this by with you? It was the end of my day. I was just like, I wanted to tie it up. I wanted to see if he knew of any scenario where, what I was missing if I w if I wasn't doing this right.

And, you know, basically he came up with a goose egg, but I wasn't afraid to call him, show my vulnerability, ask him for help. And you know what, Marshall's a really nice guy [00:42:00] and, you know, that's going to help our relationship in the future. He's going to be, feel more comfortable, like talking to me about this kind of stuff.

That's all,

[00:42:10] Fawn: it's something that we have to practice, like how, when we were creating our wedding, Our wedding party. We had to understand well as a culture, as a society, especially in the United States, we've lost the art of entertaining that when we have a simple wedding, even then it becomes this huge catastrophe.

Do you know what I mean? Like every little thing will throw someone off and it turns into this fiasco all because we're not used to entertain. So what if the cake balls and ends up on the floor, moving on, you know, it's about the gathering. It's not about a cake, but everything becomes about the cake that got mishandled or, someone showing up drunk or, [00:43:00] let me not get into it because that was crazy.

But what I'm trying to say, If we just do this more often that the muscle memory will come back to our society of helping each other out. It's not a big deal. It's just a part of life like breathing. Do you know what I'm saying? Yes. But as I'm thinking about this, I'm thinking about my own actions.

The other day I told one of my best friends, I'm learning this thing on the website and she said, please let me help you. And to this day, every day, I want to ask her to help me, but I won't. And why is that? Because deep down I have fear she's not going to talk to me again much. Like what happened with little Rachel saving me from the bullies.

I just realized that just now.

[00:43:55] Matt: Yeah. You mean you need to break through that. And that's what, where I came to it. When I was [00:44:00] finally a senior in high school, I think I broke through and I started to really own my, my, my inner me and be confident and get comfortable inside of my inner me, which was great because I went from this very, I went from an LA county high school into a college at hippy-dippy Santa Cruz.

And because I had a clear sense of who I was, I was still, I was as comfortable as I could be. And when I think about it, it's like, wow. So rampant shift. I didn't know anybody there when I started, I was comfortable with that. And nowadays I'm like, "really?", because I think I would be comfortable in a similar situation, but I know so much more now I went into it naively comfortable, as opposed to, really thinking through like strategically, these are the, these are the things you should do within the first two months.

And, you know, you have to figure this out and that out. And the other thing out, I just, [00:45:00] I kinda let things happen and things worked out.

[00:45:04] Fawn: Yeah. You know, uh, part of what that is, Matt, this is going to sound like I'm totally derailing us again, but it's not. That's the whole point of a vacation at our society at once again in the United States, most of us can't afford a vacation.

We can't go on a vacation, a vacation, meaning you have such a break to go outside of your normal routine. Out of the norm of what you see every day, taking yourself, removing yourself from what you're used to seeing. So removing yourself from where you live. Removing yourself from point a and going to point B that has a completely different atmosphere and different view.

So you have a break, so you're not constantly wrapped up in your daily routine, all the millions of [00:46:00] things that ask for your attention that take away from you having the ability to see clearly, right. It's things are always pulling you to your reality, instead of the reality of creating something new. That's why vacations are so important.

I think for you completely being removed from your very conservative family, going far away to Santa Cruz, that's very liberal to a place that's in the forest. So it's quiet away from the city and the freeways. I mean, Santa Cruz. Um, you know, I had a best friend who at the same time, went to Santa Cruz while I w I went to study in San Francisco and we would compare our lives.

Like, I'd be like, Hey, it's six in the morning. I jumped on the bus or I jumped on the, you know, I like meet all like hundreds of people, [00:47:00] uh, like within 10 minutes. And I jumped on the cable car and the cable car. Hello birds. They, they take me to school and she's like, wow, I walk. And I see fawns on, on my path to school.

Like, do you know what I mean? Like you had a completely different shift, and that allowed you to have different perspective and it allowed you to see properly or to have a different vantage point on all levels. Right. Right. And so that allowed you to create a new reality to create a new thought.

I think that's why that's one of the keys. Why Santa Cruz was so such a pivotal time for you? Great. Um, shift, right? Huh? But like this going back; being vulnerable like that it's vulnerable to ask for a favor and it's vulnerable to actually do it.

[00:47:59] Matt: Yes, [00:48:00] absolutely. But if you're comfortable in your own skin, which I think is the most important part of everybody that you need to be, you need to find a way to make it okay.

And you need to be comfortable in making it okay.

[00:48:15] Fawn: And you were saying need to, and it's like, oh my God, this is yet another thing we have to do. Well, it is something we have to do. And it's not a chore. Like once we become okay with doing that again, and I have to remind this while I'm saying it to myself, you will see that it's a natural thing.

Animals do it all the time. They do each other solids all the time. There are examples everywhere. You know, when we first started our podcast, we did a story on, the unlikely friendship. We talked about Darwin and how Darwin, didn't say survival of the fittest is, is it? He said, it's a theory,

because when you look at nature, you'll see so many examples of [00:49:00] animals you would think are enemies, actually helping each other out. Remember the Wilder beast. Um, being eaten by the alligator and all the hippos strategically surrounded that alligator and the hippos assigned each other jobs in getting the Willdabeast away out of the jaws of this alligator, crocodile .

And then. the other group of hippos escorted the wildebeest all the way to the other side of the river and helped it out. It happens all the time in nature, when you look around, they're always doing each other favors and not only that they're very, , considerate.

Like, The bird will actually stand in line without standing in line. We have a bird feeder here and birds will come and they will look at each other. And I can tell they're saying, okay, you're next? And then you're after this other guy and one by one, they go and take the seeds.

[00:50:00] And then the other person, the other person, the other bird well go, they take turns, but I can see the communication that's happening saying you go first. Then I go after

[00:50:09] Matt: you, sometimes there'll be a lookout. Cause he's wants to make sure that we're not gonna, we're not doing anything screwing. Right?

[00:50:15] Fawn: They're helping each other. This is natural. What we have become as a society is not natural. It is not natural to do everything on your own. It's great to be independent and strong, but it's not natural to not let anyone in. Right.

[00:50:35] Matt: Right. If you want to go fast, you go by yourself.

If you want to go far, you go with the team and you can very quickly get nowhere or you can get very far with a bunch of people.

[00:50:47] Fawn: So I think we should leave it at that. Do you have anything else you want to add? I'm good. So the next time you hear the word favor or have someone next time

[00:50:58] Matt: someone asks you [00:51:00] for

[00:51:00] Fawn: anything.

Someone asks you for a favor, or if you want to ask someone for a favor, remember the true original meaning of favor, which is show kindness, F a V E R E the original Latin. It means show kindness.

[00:51:19] Matt: And kindness is not Google it.

[00:51:24] Fawn: All right. Love you so much. Can you do us a favor and spread the word about our friendship, the art of friendship movement. If you could please go to apple, is it apple? You know, the apple listening method? I do apple. ITunes iTunes. I don't know. What I'm trying to say is, can you please leave us a kind review, leave

[00:51:50] Matt: us a review, wherever it is you picked up this podcast.

And if you picked up this podcast from some random friend than

[00:51:55] Fawn: email the apple, when that, like, for some reason, [00:52:00] but we'd like an apple review, uh, for some reason the apple iTunes thing has more, for some reason more merit and allows your podcast to become more. More special listen to, but we are thankful.

Thank you so much for everyone listening around the world. It is like I am in awe of you all. Thank you so much. Let's bring back the art of friendship go to our website, our friendly world.com and just click on to contact us. And it's, uh, an email that goes directly to me and.

But me because Matt's always working, working, and I was working on a podcast. All right. We love you so much. Talk to you in a few days. Thanks everybody. Bye bye-bye.