Episode Transcript
Questioning Conversation
[00:00:00] Hi
Fawn: everybody welcome back to our friendly world. Hello. Hi everybody. Okay. Okay. So Lo and behold more people are talking about the Loneliness epidemic like it's something new right? Meanwhile, we've been talking about it for 20 years 20 years Gosh, it makes me mad, Matt, because I mean, we don't have a, we don't have PhDs, we don't have all that, we've been talking about that, we created some products, we created the, I'm sorry I'm cutting you off, I'm gonna go on a little rant, we create, you created code, Based on Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics, , we worked so hard on everything, so thoughtfully. To match people with their best friends platonic friendship. Mm hmm. We created a dating site. This is years before Facebook even thought about that. This is years before [00:01:00] Bumble, We even had products.
MATT: Well, I, honestly, I think part of it is just that it's getting worse.
Fawn: Mmmmm. . I don't know. I just think that, first of all, people are talking about it, like, What got me a few years ago, during the pandemic, was some doctor or psychologist did come out and say, Oh, this is like, being lonely is like smoking ten packs of cigarettes a day.
It'll kill ya. Yay, thank you. You get diabetes and Alzheimer's from loneliness. And our, my big thing that got me so infuriated was that, Wow, gee, thanks. That's where they left everyone. Is, you're gonna die. You're gonna, and everyone's already freaked out about disease,
MATT: but now they put this in there.
You get the shock headline, you get the click bait, and
Fawn: you're good. But these are psychologists. I know. That, they don't offer any solutions. I'm like, I wish [00:02:00] we had more of an audience, because every week we're offering solutions. Or, ways to look at things as, like, this is the problem here. I'm not saying we're here to solve everything.
Or, maybe
MATT: sometimes it's just in a kind way.
Fawn: Man, it's, I'm not talking about one solution in particular. I'm saying, they don't offer solutions. Right. They just say you're gonna die from loneliness and then they say how bad it is to be lonely, but they never Talked about well, how do you make friends and and now they're starting to do that Like, how do you make friends and I've heard some people come out with things By the way, like reach out to us.
We had we got a grant to do an in person Thing that we were gonna take around the world and this was by the way March 2020 was our launch date to do that in person and it was shut down obviously. March 2020 and that's how our podcast [00:03:00] was born was because we're like well we're indoors we're not allowed to leave so let's just put all my camera equipment audio gear from my photo shoots and turn it into a podcast let's just talk about it and so that's how our podcast was born Go back to episode one, you guys.
It explains the spiritual reason why we did it, Anyway, I digress. So, what gets me is, now people are coming up with products, and I guess I'm also mad because I don't have time to to Go out and sell the products that we had in mind that we developed I don't have time and so because this is our passion project, , we have kids we have work We have all these things yet.
We've never missed an episode Knock on wood despite moving. Let's stay with stuff All right, fine. We've always had a new episode every week. We record. We're here every week and we've never repeated a [00:04:00] show.
We've never had reruns. It's all fresh. It's all new. It's all new information. And so what got me the other day was Two random different people came across my desk one of the guys was saying, Well, you have to go deep.
When you meet someone, go deep immediately. I'm like, hello, how else is there? Like, that's what I say all along. Like, we're real, we're paying attention, we're listening to each other, you go deep. , I don't believe in superficial conversation. The questions that this man would say you should ask, Mm hmm.
Angrified me. I know it's my own special word you guys. Okay. I've been using it for years Angrified. I'm like, are you serious man? If someone asked me that at a party, I would walk away very graciously like okay. Bye because it's so like Like, eee, I could tell it's like a question you pull out of your pocket because you're just reading a [00:05:00] script.
You're not really caring, you're just like, thinking of questions that are like, quote unquote deep, you know? It's bothersome to me. It just makes me want to vomit. And I forget what the questions were, but they're like interview questions like you would ask. Like. On 2020, a Barbara Walters question, maybe, you know, like, what's the toughest thing you've had to overcome in your life?
Uh, get out, get away from me. This
MATT: conversation!
Fawn: Today, I want us to do something different, there's no agenda. Oh dear. But, in the Northern European countries, there are, like, remember, we did a whole show on Hygge. We did do a whole show on Hygge. So, every country, Finland, Sweden, Denmark.
I believe
MATT: Hygge is Danish, in point
Fawn: of fact. We did a whole show on Hygge. Hygge is Danish. some months ago. I found a game. It's the HYGGE game. Oh, so HYGGE is all about [00:06:00] comfort It's all about bringing your people that you love together and there are things that Is involved in HYGGE, lots of cookies and like, it's, it's about comfort.
Comfort, comfort.
MATT: It's comfort. Particularly, it can, you can think of it as comfort, like during, when the sun doesn't come up very much during the winter, during the winter times, it's like, so like building a candles and Yeah, building a fire and having pastries and having friends over and enjoying everyone's company and being
Fawn: like, they have a list.
They have a list, so yes, candles is on there, fire, fireplace, soft, warm, cozy sweaters, conversation, friends, food, like comfort food. Right? Right. Like, uh, what's that cheese that is all melty and you put stuff in it? No, it's in a pot. It's hot. Fondue? Fondue. You know, like comfort food.
MATT: Fondue. By the way, by the way, by the way, for those [00:07:00] people who are only listening, Hygge spelled H Y G G E.
Fawn: Believe it or not. How else would they be? We're not on, we don't, we don't, we're not on video. I just
MATT: want to make sure if somebody wants to do their own
Fawn: research. Who are only listening, like, We're not
MATT: on video. Meaning they're not going through the transcript, meaning they're not Oh. Okay. Okay. Okay. H Y G G E.
Fawn: Alright, so there's a game that I found in some random place one day. It's called the Hooga Game. Cozy conversations in pleasant company. So, we're just gonna give examples of When you're meeting someone, or you're talking to someone, and, or maybe you do know the people, right? Maybe you do know the people, and they're teenagers, and they don't want to talk to you right now, right?
What? I don't
MATT: know anything about
Fawn: that.
All right, so there's a huge deck of
MATT: cards. So do we think these cards are good or bad, or are we gonna find
Fawn: that out? We're gonna find it out. [00:08:00] Okay, let's find it out. But, I mean, I always like shuffle through them. Mm hmm. I mean, we've had it for months, and it's always in the center of our dining room table, Where we eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
We have a tiny house. So that tiny room table is in the living room and the kitchen at the same time. Because it's all one room. Anyway, tiny house you guys. Okay, so You know, we always shuffle through, and the questions have always been great, and immediately, even the kids, who may be feeling ornery at the moment, they're totally, like, they, they jump in there with a response.
Well, let's jump in! Alright, I'm shuffling them like I would shuffle a tarot deck right now. So I'm just gonna pull one out, and sometimes I pull one out and I'm like, no, I'm not answering that right now. Heh heh. And so you pull out a card, and there are usually like three different questions you can choose from.
So here is one. Why do you think so many marriages end in divorce? Oh!
MATT: What? Ouch, that's [00:09:00] kind of incendiary.
Fawn: No it's not. Alright. You're just saying, out there in the world, why do you think people break up with one another? Mm hmm. Right? The other question is, do you think, do you think you have the right personality for sales?
??. And the other question is, what invention has had the greatest impact on human culture and civilization?
Right away, with these three questions, I can totally talk all day. Do you want to answer one? Or do you want me to pick another card? Oh, here
MATT: we go, here we go. I'll have fun with this. So, what invention has had the greatest impact on human culture and civilization? The bidet.
Books. Period. End of story. We can go, you can go printing press if you'd rather. But that's
Fawn: it. Done. Okay, should I pick another card? No, no, no, no.
MATT: The first one's quite an
Fawn: interesting one. Why do you think so many marriages end in divorce? Yes. One, I think it's kind of like how people have kids. It's something that most people tend to just do because you're [00:10:00] supposed to.
They, that's, I'm telling you the truth, man.
MATT: No, no, no, and you're fine. By the way, we just celebrated our, uh, anniversary. Yes, we did. Yay for us. Yay for us.
Fawn: Anyways. So. Love is winning. I don't think. I just think it's like an accessory. I don't think that, you know, like, oh, here's my purse I'm gonna carry around.
You know what I'm saying? It's not. It's not a big deal. And it's something like a milestone. Like, Matt and I don't believe in milestones. Like, people who turn 30, they're like, Oh, it's the big 3 0! We don't do numbers like that. We don't We don't do milestones. Every day is a milestone. Milestone?
Milestone. Milestone. I keep saying mild stone. Mild stone. Milestone. Mile. I got it. Milestone. I got it. Kilometer stone. Pebble stone. So, I just think and then, life okay, so I think change comes into it. People grow [00:11:00] apart they say, right? But if you think about it, your whole body, every seven years is a totally different body.
You make a new heart, new lungs, new kidneys, like, new everything. Your cells are completely different every seven, seven years. Completely different. So, change is a constant. We're all changing. It's choosing to change together and still accept one another's changes even though it's radically different from you.
You are a radically different person than I am, Matt. What? We're very different. When people see us together, they're like, How the heck did that happen? Like, what is that? Right?
MATT: Some of us are just
Fawn: lucky. Just so different. In every way. I've said it before. Tall, short. Dark, light. Brown eyes, blue eyes.
Northern European, European.
MATT: Right and I'm so Persian. I know I get it. [00:12:00] I Get it I can't help that I'm you know short and have brown eyes
Fawn: Okay, it's the man always says he's Persian. He's it's the other way around. Okay, so Okay, that's why I think people Marriages and in divorce because they're not willing to accept each other's changes.
They don't communicate. I Think if you communicate you're more accepting of change
And you truly, I think, you have to respect the person. And sometimes, some of the times, or yeah, a lot of the times you may not like the person for whatever reason, because you're going through stuff together, but you have to respect the person. And then you end up loving the person again. Your moods change.
Your bodies change. Your moods change. Everything changes. And obviously the other one is deception, Because then you're above all not honest with yourself and then you're dishonest with the other person. So, i. e. change, you do things behind the person's back, cheating, change [00:13:00] that doesn't involve the other person.
You know what I'm saying? Mm hmm. I. e. no communication and cheating. So, what do you think? Ooh,
MATT: it's my turn. Yay for me. Well, I'm gonna start with a personal story. Uh oh,
Fawn: yes. Roro? Yes. Am I
MATT: in trouble? Yes. No, I'm kidding. No, my, uh, my grandmother on my mother's side told my mom. On my mom's side.
That she married her husband. My grandmother married her husband. Because they used to hang out. There was like four or six of them. And they all hung out and they all paired off and they all got married. And they were the last two people. Like singletons. And so it seemed like the thing to do.
Fawn: Right, like playing, like sports in school.
Everyone chooses someone, you gotta choose someone. Oh, okay, you're left, alright, you're on my team. [00:14:00] Right.
MATT: Yeah, I know, isn't that hectic to hear, though? Yeah. And it's even weirder, I, It's not even weirder for me, but weird enough hearing about it as my grandparents, you know, that's how they got together It wasn't this grand epic tale of love
Fawn: Let's be careful because I do believe in matchmaking Services and I do believe in cultures that do match.
Okay, right. No. No, I get it So I do believe see Love grows, because respect will grow, so let's be careful there. That's saying, oh, just
MATT: because But it was just for completely practical reasons, and then they had a very challenged
Fawn: marriage. Well, marriage is a practical thing, really. I think it's evolving into marriages becoming less of a thing, but also I think marriage has evolved into a spiritual thing, not a practical thing.
You know what I'm saying? I don't think [00:15:00] marriage is practical anymore. It's like what it was meant as property, like the woman is the property of the man. Anyway, another story.
MATT: Ah. Well, so much for my story. I'm not your property, Matt. So much for
Fawn: my story. Why? No, you're right. You're right. Again, it was because it's the thing to do.
Right. I'm not trying to disregard what you said. I'm sorry. Feisty, feisty question for me. But
MATT: again, yes, I have to agree with you you have to take the effort to share and change together Which is more than just I like watching crazy cat videos and my wife doesn't or whatever it is But it's about sharing those things that you hear that you start to really try and integrate into your reality Um You know, those challenging moments, sharing those challenging moments. I was watching a movie and part of that movie, which was a good object lesson for me and I never for an instant thought about doing anything else, [00:16:00] especially after I saw this movie was the guy got laid off and he didn't tell his wife for
Fawn: six months.
Or remember "The Egg and I", that movie we saw where the man just like comes home and says, we're moving. Right now, I bought a house, and they end up going to the country to raise chickens. Yeah, but that's completely different. It's the same thing. He did it, he's like, this is what we're
MATT: doing. But, at least then, they were moving in the same direction, and they both knew what was going on.
In this case, the guy got laid off. He didn't tell his wife. His wife is still out spending money, still wants to go on vacation, and all sorts of things. Meanwhile, he's desperate to find a job. And he's going through this whole dichotomy, this huge lie, every single day. As he packs his little lunch to go to work.
So, not for an instant would I ever have thought about doing that.
Fawn: Good for you, Matt. But there are lots of people who don't feel like they can ever be honest And I think that's [00:17:00] part of the reason why there's a loneliness epidemic and there's so much we're hiding, right? There's so much being
MATT: hidden But if you if you think about it, if you have a partner that you can't be honest
Fawn: with then why are you with them?
Yeah, I know it. I know. And then the other question is do you think you have the right personality for sales. It depends when you ask me this in my life. I used to look at salespeople like really sleazy Sleazy
MATT: What's it going to take to get you in this car, little
Fawn: lady? Like, I remember I was 18 and I was surrounded by so many photographers and I worked at a camera store, a very big camera store, sought after, like professional photographers went there.
And so I was surrounded by People in the industry, and I was told one day, Von, you better learn how to sell. You need to become a salesperson. And I was so offended, for years, from someone saying that to me. And it wasn't just one person, several people said that to me. I was so [00:18:00] offended. Like, as a young kid, where you heard the term salesperson, you always thought of someone who is incredibly shady, trying to get your money, And not have your welfare in mind.
They're just there to sell you a car that looks okay, and as soon as you drive it off, it will break down and there's nothing you can do about it. Because they were such great salespeople that they were able to Make you do something that you shouldn't have done. That's what I thought of a salesperson.
Now, because I've had my own businesses, because I've had to go out there with my photography work and get clients and figure all that out, what I realized was a salesperson is someone that's there to show you things that you didn't think of, to make your life easier because they've done all the research and they know what you need.
To me that's now a [00:19:00] salesperson. So do you think you have the right personality for sales? Yes Because I'm thinking about it in a friendly way. I'm only here to serve your highest good with What I can provide for you So, yes. How about you?
MATT: Well, my knee jerk reaction was no. And then I started thinking, my buddy Jim is a great salesman.
And he's a great salesman because , he's very passionate about all kinds of stuff. But, like, typically he's only gonna try and sell you something that he feels passionately about. Or that you He actually works in a bank, so he manages to sell people, you know, CDs and whatnots. But if you're passionate about getting a CD, he's gonna try and figure out if that makes sense to you.
If that certificate of deposit, by the way, for our overseas listeners, it's a bank thing. Uh, anyways, He's going to figure out if it makes sense for you, and he's going to break it down, and it all feels very organic and honest and open and vulnerable, so thinking about sales is an act of [00:20:00] communication.
Honestly, we sell, I sell all the time. I just had to give a demo, which is like a sales pitch to a whole bunch of actually sales people at my company, as I had to demo the product I've been working on. And you know if I don't believe in it if I don't understand what it is I'm building and why I'm building it then, they're gonna smell it.
I'm gonna smell it. It's all gonna feel icky So I think those moments where I don't feel good as a quote unquote salesman Those are moments that I don't believe in what what it is i'm doing And there's a genuineness to it that comes out and so a sleazy salesman like, somebody who sells, you know You Brand X of cars and they've been doing that for 20 years, even though, they don't drive one themselves, you can almost taste it on them.
So run away
Fawn: Thank you for sharing that and then going back to Going back to questions and asking questions and how the psychologist was offering up questions Like [00:21:00] what's the biggest turning point in your life? It's like, well, I don't know you like that. Why would I ever? You Offer up that information without you first not being vulnerable with me.
Why would you come Why would you come at me with such a question? Like, I don't know you like that. That's my purse. I don't know you. And
MATT: there you go. And yet, you can have the most fascinating, like Discussions conversations with people just by asking innocuous questions not these deep probing Creepy
Fawn: if you look at these hygge questions, I mean there are some in here that ask questions about what do you think?
But it's always like what do you or what has happened to you? Maybe I don't know I still haven't seen any questions like that. Like what's the biggest turning point? Whatever, but like look, why do you think so many marriages end in divorce? Do you think? You have the right personality for sales. [00:22:00] What invention has had the greatest impact on human culture and civilization?
You know what? These are asking me what I think. Right?
MATT: Right. They're not
Fawn: asking who you are. Right. And you know who someone is by the way they think and the way they see life. So that's why I like these questions rather than those stupid Questions which reminds me of, I'm sorry, I was engaged to this idiot guy once who studied Jungian therapy.
I just want to vomit at the way they thought, the way he in particular would pose questions of people thinking he was so deep. So deep, and it was gross, because it was questions like that, right off the bat. Or, or they would like sit and go, okay, we're going to look at each other for 20 minutes without saying a word, and we're just going to stare into each other's eyes.
[00:23:00] Vomit. Get away from me. Anyway, so. Um, there you go. Okay. Should I, do you want to do one more? Let me do it. Okay, but, here. Secret. Here, I'll give you the
MATT: box. Here give me the box. I'm not going to shuffle. I'm just going to pick a card. Any card. And I'm only going to read one.
Fawn: Oh, no fun. No, you know what? Just read all the questions so we know what kind of questions there are.
You know what I'm saying?
MATT: Would you enjoy sharing a meal with your clone? What is the one key trait that makes successful people successful? Communication, vulnerability. Oh, communication. What was the, oh, ooh. What was the name of your first serious crush? Okay,
hold on. Hold on. Stacey Samo folks. Great alliteration. Who's
Fawn: that? I've never heard of her.
MATT: 4th, 4th grade I fell hard. [00:24:00] Aww.
Fawn: What? Are you looking at me like to
MATT: answer the questions? I answered the three
Fawn: questions. Bam. I have to see it because I forget everything immediately. Okay, would you enjoy sharing a meal with your clone? No, creepy. No thanks. I can barely look at myself in the mirror. Are you crazy? Okay, what is the one key trait that makes successful people successful?
Compassion. You Understanding. Being able to put yourself in another person's shoes. Okay, what was the
MATT: name? Wait, I said one.
Fawn: What's the one? What? I told you the one. I think compassion is the same thing. Okay, good. Let's move on. With compassion, you're able to put yourself in another person's shoes. So then you know what people need.
Then you can lead. Oh, wait. Successful people, successful. It didn't even say anything about leadership, did it? Mm mm. Oh. Okay, I'm sticking to it. What was the name of your [00:25:00] first serious crush? There you go. Oh God. Kai Morrison, from 7th grade until 12th grade.
MATT: Wow, I had my first serious crush because it was serious.
Everything was serious to me in 4th grade. You know
Fawn: what? Everything. Okay, you know what? I had crushes before that. But they were a mutual, this was a, a, a crush that like crushed me. Yeah. But it just said first serious crush. It also first serious crush. Well, I think that was the most serious because the other ones, we liked each other and we like played dodgeball and handball together and like spanked each other.
No. What I,
MATT: no, no. With sticks.
Fawn: No, I, no like, you know, like.
MATT: No, I don't know. I'm not spanking people. Oh my
Fawn: You know, like, tag. Never mind. Tag, you know, like Never mind. Not like that, folks. Innocent. It's rated G. Rated G spanking. So anyway, um, and [00:26:00] not hard either. Okay, so This crush, though, and all this, by the way, all the answers relate to friendship to me.
Like, every, this last six questions we just did, to me, relates to friendship. Right. Right? Even the salespeople and everything, just being genuine, right? Caring about another person. Um, but, this crush that, that I had taught me so much that, so it was excruciating. From 7th grade until 12th grade, you guys.
Ouch. Ouch. And all I did was just stare at him.
I even stalked him for a little bit. But anyway, um, so and then Years later we met up and it was the best conversation for me Oh And at the end of 12th grade, I did a photo shoot. He modeled for me I did a photo shoot with him and we ended up having such a lovely conversation And [00:27:00] understood all the misunderstandings that took place between us it was fantastic.
But I learned a lot. I learned that people don't know what you're thinking. True. They don't. I always assumed he would know that I loved him. You know what I'm saying? He had no clue, and I assumed if I just ignore him, that he would feel me, and like, come to me, we would have this amazing bond. But it never happened.
So, I wouldn't even look at him with my eyes to just like, convey my appreciation of him. You know my respect for him all of that. So anyway that taught me a lot So now i'm a better communicator because of all that painful teenage and pre teen Angst angst and yeah, I would cry I would be so heartbroken all the time Okay, so there you go.
There's a lot more. There's like how many 300? Something like anyway, [00:28:00] so some questions so think about questions that are not probing But are just like Thoughtful, like thinking kind of questions. I think that's a good way to start conversations you guys and start friendships, Yes. Okay.
That's it. I have to go to the bathroom again. Okay. , help me . Okay. Thank you as always. Have a beautiful every day and you know how to reach us. Okay? Talk to you soon. Be well.
