Episode Transcript
TRANSCRIPT - What Happens When You allow People to Show Themselves
[00:00:00] FAWN: Welcome back. Hello. Hi everyone. Welcome back. Today we are exploring, allowing, letting people expose their true selves. It's about entering and leaving the room with love and respect really is at the base of it. But this comes from, I was listening to Davis Sedaris do you know who David Ceras is? I
[00:00:25] MATT: didn't, but I did a little homework.
[00:00:27] MATT: Hey, and as it turns out, he's like a nationally known in America, at least humorous, writer, author, comedian, comedian. Mm-hmm. But, uh, not a face you recognize.
[00:00:41] FAWN: He's, he's such, um, he's a human. he's Caucasian. He is. Which, you know, when you listen to people, you come across someone that totally gives you, um, you, you get a healing.
[00:00:58] FAWN: Like they'll say something and it puts a salve on your spirit because they said something right from their perspective and you're like, wait a minute. You have felt that way. Wow. Okay. It changes how I see myself. Let me explain. So David Ceras, I was listening to him, he was reading from his passages, his, his books.
[00:01:24] FAWN: He was talking about letting people expose their true selves. People who think you don't count. When people don't count you as a real human being, people who discard you, your presence, your culture, your appearance, as acceptable. Like you're, you're just not accept. And I have so many examples of this, of how I was treated like from the very beginning, ever since I can remember, which goes back to when I was in diapers.
I have full recall it was always astonishing to me that whenever other people left the room and it was just me, what was exposed to me. And what was exposed was how people really felt, who they really were. it's like they didn't even count me as anything that I was in the room that they felt, uh, at ease to just be themselves.
[00:02:24] FAWN: Mm-hmm. And these people or these situations really showed who they were, but I had no way to prove what they said. Or what I saw. Right. A because I mean, it goes back to when I was just a baby, but the things that were said about other people, like as soon as these other people that they were talking about came back in the room, everything changed.
[00:02:46] FAWN: They, their mannerisms changed. they were respectful And then as I got older, it was how they would treat me. And it even happened with you, Matt, when I was meeting your friends, right?
[00:03:00] FAWN: Every time you left the room, their whole demeanor would change. And they would talk to me in a not nice way. It was astonishing.
[00:03:11] MATT: It's astonishing. You're still
[00:03:12] FAWN: with me. things like that happen all the time. Like I have so many stories. Like when we we moved to Colorado. This was a long time ago, but we decided to take the move.
[00:03:23] FAWN: Out. It was my idea. I'm like, let's treat him out to lunch to say thank you before he actually moves the stuff into the apartment Right, right. So he removed us from, from California anyway, but this was the second time we were moving away from California. The first mover was amazing. Remember him?
[00:03:40] FAWN: Yes. Super
[00:03:41] MATT: nice. And he got really good people to help him too. Yeah.
[00:03:44] FAWN: And so we were at lunch and our kids were very little. They were with me. You decide to go to the bathroom and as soon as you left, this guy was like, his whole demeanor changed. He leans over at me, he's like, let me ask you a question.
[00:04:02] FAWN: What's really important in life? Do you know the answer? What it wa like? I don't remember his exact words, but it, he, it was a question kind of posed like that. Mm-hmm. But I knew it was religious. He was talking about religion, and I said, yes, I do. I do know the purpose, and I do know the, the meaning. Like a, again, I don't remember his exact words.
[00:04:22] FAWN: Mm-hmm. But he was definitely referring to religion. And I said, yes. The answer is love. Love is it. Love is the most important. He's like, no, no, it's not, not, let me tell you what it is. And he went on this, uh, tirade. Tirade, is that the
[00:04:41] MATT: word? Tirades a good word.
[00:04:42] FAWN: Really good. He went on the, uh, tirade of Jesus.
[00:04:46] FAWN: And, um, and I, and I, and I was like, okay, he definitely needs to speak his truth. That's fine. You know, I was mm-hmm. I am a respecter of all religions. I tru. I appreciate all of them. Right. and I was nodding and I was saying yes, definitely. You know, cuz I was seeing the love in it.
[00:05:06] FAWN: Mm-hmm. Even though he was coming at me with venom. Right. But I'm like, okay, he's in pain. He's just trying to tell me his experience. That's okay. I mean, it wasn't okay, but I was like, this is what's happening and there's nothing I could do, but just listen and nod and like offer love. And then he, that was not good enough for him, so he kept going and he's like, with even more venom, he leans even closer.
[00:05:29] FAWN: He's like, I see you nodding. I see you. I, and I can tell you're just nodding and saying, mm-hmm. Yes. Okay. I agree, but I know you don't. I know you're not a believer. And then he started to say, how, and our kids are right there, age four and six. Four and sex. Right. And he was like telling us that how, how we're going to go to hell because we don't, I don't know what, what the word he used was, but we don't, follow Jesus.
pointing to us and saying we're going to hell, and then giving us all these wild stories of horribleness. And I'm like, okay, so what am I gonna do here? Because I need to put an end to this right now. Right? So I leaned over and I said, look, I am Jewish. And he looked at me.
[00:06:27] FAWN: Did you ever see, Lucifer, the TV show? I never watched Lucifer. I love that show. I really did. it was this character Lucifer who comes to Los Angeles. And takes the form of a beautiful man, a beautiful musician, a very successful nightclub owner. He just wants to have a good time.
[00:06:47] FAWN: He's done with hell. Like, I love this TV show. Who's the writer?
[00:06:52] MATT: Uh, Neil. Neil Guyman. Gaiman. Yes. Sandman,
[00:06:55] FAWN: et cetera. What a talented writer, right? Because I mean, I'm a spiritual person. And I, I watch my words very carefully. I use my words carefully so I don't throw around words like hell or the devil or anything like that.
[00:07:12] FAWN: For me to say I love Lucifer, like really freaked me out in the beginning. Yes, as it should remember, cuz I was like, oh my God, there's this TV show I really love. But the writing was so good that you ended up understanding Lucifer. Okay, this is gonna take me to a weird spot, but what I'm trying to say is, when I looked at this man and I said, I am Jewish, there's a point, there are some points in the show, Lucifer, where he shows his true face.
[00:07:39] FAWN: Mm-hmm. So he shows people his true face, which is the devil, and it looks very scary. Right. And some people, when they see this, immediately pass out from, from, I guess the fear or the shock. Mm. He looked like that because I said I was Jewish, you know, and I'm really, I mean, I'm all religions. I mean, if you trace my background, it comes from a very, it's a Jewish lineage.
[00:08:09] FAWN: Right? Okay. But when, when I know someone is offering so much hate mm-hmm. Saying that unless you go my way, unless you ascribe to ascribe, is that prescribe s. Whatever. Unless you choose Jesus as your one and only savior, you're going to Hell best believe I'm gonna put the Jewish card down and say, look buddy, I'm Jewish.
[00:08:34] FAWN: I have my own religion. Do you know what I'm saying? Right. It was my way to say, I have my own religion. Right. I respect you and stop this disrespect of me. Right. Um, so anyway, he looked at me like I was the devil. And that's when Matt comes back to the table, hello the way, oh, back from the bathroom. And then you say What happened?
[00:09:00] MATT: That would be, yes, my normal, clueless.
[00:09:02] FAWN: So no, because the energy, the energy had totally shifted. Meanwhile, our kids are like totally there, like with their big, beautiful brown eyes, like wide. What happened, but they were kind of used to it because whenever we went to the grocery store or anything, I was always it like, we, we got that, I got it right.
[00:09:22] FAWN: The kids didn't because they're half you, you know, very tall, light skinned, you know, But they saw me get that kind of treatment a lot. So I had to early on, have a conversation with them. Why is it that these people that seemed fine around, around here, all of a sudden completely shifted, right?
[00:09:45] FAWN: And it's just me, like all of a sudden became crazy, rude, aggressive, so I remember when I was seven, seven years old, maybe eight, I think more towards seven. We were at a garage. we lived in West la mm-hmm. Which is a pretty affluent kind of part of la we were immigrants.
[00:10:07] FAWN: okay. So backstory, my family lived in the United States before I was born for a while, and then I was born in the Middle East. Okay. They went back and forth. I think they were trying to figure out what to do. We moved back, like the first time, my, my first steps, I was told by my dad were on Hollywood Boulevard.
[00:10:31] FAWN: Um, literally like that's when I, uh, walked mm-hmm. Was where they have the stars, you know? Yes. and then we moved back and there was a lot of back and forth until they figured out how they're going to. Where, where, what they were gonna do. Right. You know, things were getting
[00:10:46] MATT: dicey there.
[00:10:48] FAWN: It was before things got dicey in the Middle East, you know, it was before the whole revolution in Iran. It was, it was before that. And then, but, but around that time where I was seven, eight, the revolution had begun. So there was that in the news. it was just like much like. Now, like the immigrants of whatever country you're talking about who have to move to another place, they're always demonized, right?
[00:11:20] MATT: Well, yeah, they're gonna steal our jobs, they're gonna drive down the price of this. If they move into your neighborhood, then the house prices are gonna
[00:11:27] FAWN: fall. And so very early on, I felt the feeling of being a pest as a human. Being treated like an invasive species or something, being not even a species, an invasive thing, that you're less than that you are there taking away life.
[00:11:52] FAWN: You are there making, messing things up. You are there, just the looks on people's faces even. Mm-hmm. Um, so anyway, we. This one day we were driving around and we went to, we were on the street, San Vicente, which is a beautiful street. It kind of goes until you get to this park in Santa Monica, and that's where we were.
[00:12:19] FAWN: So it's a very beautiful neighborhood. There was a garage sale. we pull over and it was just me and my mom who went to the driveway, which was where the garage sale was. And I'm standing there holding my mom's hand and we're looking, we're not even touching anything because we had never really seen a garage sale before.
[00:12:41] FAWN: Like, what are people doing with their stuff on the street like that, right. It was something new. It was something interesting. It was something like, we were trying to understand like what's happening and, and so we're standing in the driveway and we're looking. I could feel, cause I'm holding my mom's hand, I could feel her energy shift towards the house.
[00:13:04] FAWN: The houses there were beautiful. Mm-hmm. And, and so we both started to see, oh, that house is pretty, the whole time I could see and feel the woman who lived there following us. Ooh. Like and glaring at us. And I was very little, right? So like I, I came to about my mom's waist, kind of like hiding in her skirt, right?
[00:13:29] FAWN: Holding her hand. And I could feel the venom, I could feel the hatred. I could feel this like, um, alarm from this woman mm-hmm. That we were there. And the fact that our attention went towards the house, away from the pavement on the driveway where her stuff was she started yelling at us and saying, Hey, you don't belong here.
[00:13:55] FAWN: Get outta here. And that feeling has never left me because that feeling really goes towards everything that, every injustice I feel when I see someone else. Right. Getting injustice like that, getting mistreated. That comes back.
[00:14:15] MATT: Right. Especially cuz you got hit with it at such a young
[00:14:17] FAWN: age. But it's, it's more complicated because there are so many emotions that come up when you're treated less than mm-hmm.
[00:14:24] FAWN: First emotion I can think of, and I, I never went to a therapist about this is just something that I have been thinking about my whole life because so many emotions came up and as the years have gone on, I've been trying to break them down and go to myself, okay, there was this that happened and this that happened and then this and this.
[00:14:45] FAWN: So the first thing I think I felt was shock. Like I've never heard anyone speak to my mother like that. Right. Well except my dad. Cuz they used to fight hail horrible. No, not hail was bad. I know, I know. But But to be treated like that by a stranger right? By another adult to be
[00:15:05] MATT: treated le Yeah. Less than
[00:15:07] FAWN: I had never.
[00:15:09] FAWN: I mean, my mom always seemed to have some clout, so I never, that was the first time I felt and saw her get mistreated like that. Mm-hmm. And then later on, because of what was in the news, because of how people were talking about people from the Middle East, Iranians, because of all that, there was all this talk about these immigrants.
[00:15:36] FAWN: It was out in media. So then people started to treat us the way media was portraying us. Right. In a negative, negative way. I forgot what I was saying.
[00:15:47] MATT: Well, you were being treated like, it's like objects, like obstacles, like
[00:15:54] FAWN: so, well, I was, what I was saying was my mom. I had never seen my mom treated that way.
[00:15:59] FAWN: Treated that way. I was shocked. Right? And then I was really confused, like, why isn't my mom saying anything? Right?
[00:16:08] MATT: All of a sudden, your reality is getting rewritten.
[00:16:11] FAWN: So my mom didn't say anything. We just left, right? We're like, oh, sorry. And I, and so there's confusion and then I was mad because why didn't you say something?
[00:16:26] FAWN: And then I was mad, like, why would, why would this woman treat us like that? That's not nice. So I was mad at that too. And then as time went on, there was embarrassment. And I think that's the key killer right there, is when you feel ashamed, not about the behavior of this person ashamed for being who you are, right?
[00:16:53] FAWN: Because it's attracting that kind of hate, right? There must be something wrong with me if more than one person says and does things about me like that. So it must be me. Something's wrong with me.
[00:17:08] MATT: Right? And that's the next layer of it. Because, you know, as you're talking, I'm, you know, thinking in my, you know, perched in my whatever, um, you know, white male world, it's like, I remember those singular, frankly occurrences where somebody dumped on me.
[00:17:23] MATT: Now, you know, I went through and still go through life with long hair. You know, my clothes can be scruffy and I don't particularly care, but I don't get a lot of abuse. It felt like when I was younger, I, it felt like I did, but I really didn't. But a couple of singular occurrences, you know, there's a reason why, I'll probably never own a Toyota and it's because one, sales rep at a Toyota dealership when I was shopping for my first new car.
[00:17:51] MATT: said, uh, don't waste time with the jerk offs, is what he told some guys around him. And one of my buddies heard, now I was hanging out with, my buddy Mario, who's Hispanic, and my buddy Dave, who's from Thailand. So I'm sure we just looked like an odd kind of triplet. And I wouldn't say I was dressed particularly well, because of course I'm shopping for a new car.
[00:18:11] MATT: I'm not gonna dress well for that, my goodness. But it's one of those singular occurrences. You know, I didn't, imme I wasn't immediately faced with again and again and again. Negativity, criticism and, and prejudging. And there's, there's a couple others, but they're all significantly spaced out. So it's that whole next level of, you know, why is everybody seemingly and apparently absolutely treating me this way?
[00:18:43] FAWN: You brought up how you were dressed. To this day, when I take the kids to the pediatrician or the whatever appointment that we have, especially one that is sensitive, right? We, I make them dress up. Sometimes we go with gifts, you know, like Feed the Beast. I don't know who's going to be mistreating us and they have their lives in our hands, right?
[00:19:07] FAWN: So we dress up, I go with a gift.
[00:19:11] FAWN: It just, there's that, I mean, and the, but the feeling ashamed and wanting to change everything about yourself comes, uh, in so many layers as well. Like you wanna be either invisible, which you already are anyway, unless you happen to be annoying somebody by your presence or you. So you either wanna be that invisible or
[00:19:38] FAWN: you wanna blend in? So I saw my family members get colored contacts. Right. And turn their hair blonde. Mm-hmm. So they were blonde-haired, blue-eyed or green-eyed people walking around, try not to get any sun. Mm-hmm. So they're not dark.
[00:19:57] FAWN: It just, it, it was painful because like I I asked you a few years ago, I'm like, Matt, I just wanna walk down the street and not be othered. Right. Because we lived in a small town in Colorado or wherever we went, it was like I was targeted in some way. Mm-hmm. And it wasn't always bad. It was just like, It wasn't because I was a human that they wanted to get to know.
[00:20:20] FAWN: All they saw was just what I am, right? My culture, my color, whatever. And you know, as I'm telling you this, I'm hearing my friend who, when I tell her these stories, she,condemns me and says, you're being negative. You're being too negative. The world is not like that.
[00:20:38] FAWN: It's what you're choosing to focus on. And I can't fight against that because in a way I can see, yeah, you're right. I'm, I'm, I'm harping on the negative. That not everybody is racist. That it's not, not everything is about a racial issue, but in my case, I'm trying to tell you my stories of race and how I was treated.
[00:20:59] FAWN: Mm-hmm. And so it, it, and that's another pain point right there when, when Caucasian friends tell me that I'm being negative and talking about this. that's another major pain. That, that, and not to be flippant, like, oh, that's a pain, but it really hurts me. It just hurts because they're denying my experience.
[00:21:21] FAWN: And then they're also denying what happens in the world, right? And saying, oh, you know, it's what you focus on, what you focus on grows, which is using that kind of thing against me, cuz I talk about that all the time. Anyway. To feel all those things as a little kid. Mm-hmm. To see a human being treat another human being like that.
[00:21:48] FAWN: So I, I was listening to, David Sedaris. he was saying, let me, let me read you what he said.
[00:21:54] FAWN: So he was talking about people don't count you as a real human being. He was talking about traveling. He was saying that when you go to another country, he loves going to another country because have you noticed when you go and you don't speak maybe their language or you're not familiar with their culture, that he thinks that people
[00:22:13] FAWN: tend to treat you like you're less than, like you don't really count, you're not a real human being. I'm like, huh, I never experienced it that way, by the way. Never Unless you're an ugly American then. Yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? Because people are tired of like, um, be, you know, someone coming in and, and assuming that they're better than you and they're pointing and you're, they're saying gimme, and they're assuming.
[00:22:42] FAWN: English is spoken, right? You're not even gonna try to speak their language. Um, right.
[00:22:47] MATT: You're, you're not even gonna pretend to meet them halfway. It's my way
[00:22:50] FAWN: or the highway. So, I mean, I kind of understand how that treatment could be there. Um, but it's very interesting for a white man to, to say what he said. it totally helped me, he said, that people can discard you, right.
[00:23:09] FAWN: But he loves that. So what he did was, I think I had you listen to his story when he was reading from his journal, right? Yes. So he, I think he lives in England and he picks up trash. Or like sometimes he'll, he'll walk, he'll walk daily or something with index cards. Mm-hmm. And he is learning, like is he, was he learning other
[00:23:31] MATT: languages?
[00:23:31] MATT: He was, yes. And this was happened to him, I believe, when he was in France. And so he was the guy who was walking through talking to himself but he was looking at index cars, 10 vocabulary words a day to, you know, know how to speak a little
[00:23:44] FAWN: better. So he was repeating words out loud.
[00:23:47] FAWN: And the meanings. He was trying to learn the language, so he was learning words and reciting the words out loud. Right? So he was perceived as someone crazy who's walking around talking to himself. Right. He's definitely a crank. And then I think in England, he goes around picking up like whatever he see.
[00:24:04] FAWN: If he sees trash on the ground, he picks it up, right? So he takes care of his environment. He picks up trash. He's
[00:24:09] MATT: conscientious and yeah, if he sees trash on the ground, he'll pick.
[00:24:12] FAWN: And so he was talking about how people treat him because they think he's
[00:24:17] MATT: lesser than, well, they think it's his job. It's a public service.
[00:24:21] MATT: You know, it's one of those community service things where he has to, he has
[00:24:25] FAWN: to do it. And he was saying that, you know, it's funny because some people just ignore you. They won't even have eye contact with you. Or they'll say, oh, I have some trash. Come pick it up here. Oh, that street over there needs to be cleaned up.
[00:24:37] FAWN: Go over. You know, and he, he says, I love that because
he said that someone's character, your character is based on how you treat the people you're allowed to mistreat. So for example, a busboy who doesn't speak English, you know, hotel made, these people are often mistreated. Or like in my case, you know, immigrants that are talked about, like they are intruders, aliens,
whoever is powerless to complain about them. Right.
[00:25:08] FAWN: So he was saying it's like having special glasses. To see what people are really like because they're not counting you as an actual human being like they are. That's what he said. They're exposing themselves in a way they wouldn't if they thought you were their equal,
[00:25:25] MATT: which is very uncomfortable when you start thinking about it.
[00:25:29] MATT: Wow. And, and the fact that he sees this as an atypical behavior means he's used to kind of being an alpha dog for sure. I remember reading about, a company where if you inter, when you interviewed with them, they walked you through this before obviously virtual stuff, but they would walk you through the office and they would present an opportunity for you to
[00:25:51] MATT: you know, maybe there was, something laying on the side that needed to get picked up and thrown in the bin that was three inches away. They would keep track, uh, or maybe it was just a case of different things they would do. Another thing they would do is they would, give you a bottle of water, and then they'd see what happened to that bottle.
[00:26:08] MATT: After the interview. And if you didn't act in a way that was consistent with their values and their values were to value everybody, they wouldn't hire you. It didn't matter how good, bad, or indifferent you were.
[00:26:19] FAWN: So if you had an interview and there was a piece of trash on the floor that you didn't pick up and you just went along with everything, they put that piece of trash there on purpose to see how you would treat your environment.
[00:26:30] FAWN: Exactly.
[00:26:31] MATT: Got it. How interesting. And how. You know, it's good to find, hear about companies where that's kind of a fundamental belief.
[00:26:39] FAWN: Remember we had a friend who was telling us that that's how she got her job, that she was on an interview there was a very famous grocery store there, very famous in history.
[00:26:51] FAWN: because it goes back to, The internment camps. Right, right. It was owned by a Japanese family and then they were taken away. All the Japanese people were taken away, put into internment camps. And so what the community did with this grocery store was all the people who worked there did everything in their power to make sure that the grocery store was kept alive.
[00:27:17] FAWN: Their ideals, their respect, the, the beauty, everything that was wonderful and honorable. They kept that until the families came back. Tnc. Town of Country. Town and Country. And so our friend was interviewing for this place. Right? But, and mind you, the people who worked there were major educators.
[00:27:38] FAWN: People with amazing careers, but they wanted to work at this grocery store. Like a lot of people decided not to be teachers anymore for very legitimate reasons. but anyway, so our friend was telling us her story about how she got the job, and so they interview in the cafe, so you're around everybody, the customers, everyone.
[00:27:58] FAWN: And so they were interviewing. And, uh, someone was having trouble. What happened? Someone spilled their drink or something in line trying to get coffee, and then all of a sudden our friend was like, excuse me, excuse me. Like she stopped the interview. She's like, I'll be right back. And she went and bought the person a coffee, helped clean up.
[00:28:17] FAWN: And came running back. She got the job immediately.
[00:28:20] MATT: And who wouldn't want to hire somebody like that, for goodness sake, period.
[00:28:25] FAWN: But you know, there you see someone's true nature, what's really important to them.
[00:28:30] MATT: Right. Which is incredibly difficult to gauge in the course of an interview.
[00:28:33] FAWN: Yeah. Because people train to have a certain face on, and this goes with friendship too.
[00:28:38] FAWN: People have a certain face. You don't know what they're truly like until you step into the fire or like there is a fire or something. You see their true nature when they're tired or you're going through something, or they're going through something, all of a sudden, everything that they have. This has happened to me so many times, where people all of a sudden reveal, not on purpose, but it, it all gets revealed to you what they're really like.
[00:29:10] FAWN: And sometimes it's you who is having a bad time and you are unraveled. But because you are unraveled, then they are unraveled and they can't handle you. And so then their true demonn comes out. Right.
[00:29:25] MATT: Right. Or sometimes if you reveal yourself as being tired or frustrated or exhausted or feeling Yes.
[00:29:35] MATT: Small yes. Then all of a sudden they see themselves as bigger or better
[00:29:40] FAWN: than you. Right. And if that lasts for longer than they'd like, like I remember, uh, last year I was going through a horrible time. We were experiencing a lot your mom was dying. There was a lot going on. financially we were in a tough situation, right?
[00:29:59] FAWN: Again, and it was really, really stressful. Like for me, like I couldn't take it anymore because we had gone down that road so many times, right? Like it was not the first time, it was not our first rodeo, and I had never really fully recuperated from all the other ones. I was having a lot of trouble and once again, people that I thought were good friends of ours who were even on this podcast all of a sudden just dropped me and like, were so mean about it.
[00:30:34] FAWN: It was hurtful. Like it, it was like, whew. I think around that time I did a show on breaking up with friends, like it's just as painful as anything else that is painful like a divorce, you know? Well,
[00:30:48] MATT: it's even more, it can be even more painful because you know these people might know you better than you know anyone else.
[00:30:55] MATT: How does it feel to be quote unquote dumped or for a friend to stop talking to you who really knows you? Does that invalidate your reality? pH.
[00:31:05] FAWN: Yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot to unpack. There's a lot. It's not just one thing. Yeah. There's a lot like so many questions. Right? So, so what do we do with this?
[00:31:18] FAWN: They, so, okay, I'll tell you about the healing that happened when I was listening to David Sedaris. It's not about you. They are exposing themselves. So, yeah, I'm an immigrant. I'm not white. I'm not what you want. But it really, it's not about me. It's not about my quote unquote, whatever is ugly. It's, your ugly.
[00:31:44] FAWN: Not you, Matt, but like, it's, they're ugly. They're exposing themselves, right? So stop beating yourself up. Stop feeling so bad. I mean, feel bad, you know, get through it, get not get over it, guys, get through it, but realize it's this person showing their true selves. That's all. And what David Sedaris was saying is, it's great for him.
[00:32:08] FAWN: It's like gold. When someone reveals themselves like that, he writes about it. He doesn't try to interfere and say, oh, well I'm not really the trash pickup guy. I'm, I'm David Seras. No. He lets them be whoever they are and he'll write about it. He'll channel it in his art. Mm-hmm. And he was saying it's not the same for the busboy.
[00:32:30] FAWN: Like I hope they have an outlet. Right. But most likely they don't. They don't. So this is for anyone who's ever felt less than. It's not you. You are not less than. It's what is being exposed to you. It's the person being exposed. And isn't that wild? Isn't that fascinating? Thank goodness that you can see the light.
[00:32:57] FAWN: Thank goodness that you can see the true self in that person. And this goes in not only, it doesn't have to be some racist woman yelling at you. It doesn't have to be, oh my God. There was another time when we were getting married, Matt, um, I was at, have, I was having a terrible time with a wedding dress because all of a sudden, and this is in LA all of a sudden I'm not tall enough, I'm not thin enough, I'm not enough.
[00:33:26] FAWN: And the way I got treated by people, I was in tears every time someone even touching me on the shoulder made me jump because of, you know how people like, um, hold your arm. You don't know this Matt, but like there are ways that as women we get touched by behind our, um, slightly above our elbows, behind our arms.
[00:33:51] FAWN: Mm-hmm. People hold us there and they squeeze to see how much fat is there. It's a really cra. It, it, it's crazy. It, it makes me rage. Like I wanna knock someone out that does that. but like shopping around for a wedding dress like that, cuz they have size zeros and twos. And then to, go trying on gowns like that is a humiliating experience.
[00:34:16] FAWN: One, first of all, you can't get dressed by yourself. You need a team of people to like zip things up for you and stuff, right? So there's that, and there's the fact that they only have a certain sample size. So they put it on you and they like, they have to maneuver and you're standing there pretty much like half naked, right?
[00:34:37] FAWN: And
[00:34:37] MATT: you honestly, even when they're done, you're not gonna have a good sense of how this is gonna really gonna look on you.
[00:34:42] FAWN: So, and then you get the snooty looks and the comments, right? So I hadn't had enough, cuz I got that enough from my family. So I had enough, I didn't know what I was gonna do.
[00:34:53] FAWN: So a friend of mine who's a stylist, who is a friend of ours, said, let me take you. I'm like, no, I really don't wanna go. She's like, it'll be fun. We'll go, we'll have drinks later. You know, it'll be fun. I'm like, okay. And so while she was there, while we were there looking at gowns, she's like, let me call up my other stylist friend who worked on this TV show.
[00:35:16] FAWN: They both worked on TV shows, right? And she, she worked on a very famous TV show. She comes running right over, and as soon as this woman looks at me, she looks at me up and down, she turns to our friend and says, um, I'm gonna go. Like she was not interested. Oh, Matt, I think she heard Fawn Fa, I'm here with my friend.
[00:35:40] FAWN: She assumed that was a very tall, blonde person that they could style, that would go in their portfolio. I don't know what they were thinking. Right. But it was so hurtful, Matt, like that was it. That was the last straw. And that was when I said, you know what? I wanna wear a sorry to our wedding. it was a completely different experience.
[00:36:01] MATT: I was present for the, the, sorry, experience.
[00:36:04] FAWN: Remember how she was like, what's wrong with you? What's wrong? Cuz she tried to put something around my waist. Right? And I, like, I got all stiff. Mm-hmm. And I closed my eyes. She's like, what happened? Let's tell her what happened. Like, I didn't even realize I did that.
[00:36:19] FAWN: Mm-hmm. But I was so used to, it was so, um, it was. I don't know the word for it. I wanna cry right now. But like, the way I got treated as an immigrant when I was a little kid. Mm-hmm. The way like, all of that come, it's, it's all related. It's like you're not good enough ever. Like you have to be whatever is acceptable for someone else.
[00:36:44] FAWN: Mm-hmm. Um, it's just, it's not nice. And so we were talking, oh my God, this is so all over the place. It's all about getting back to the whole point of, because I mean, I can give you story after story of, of this kind of treatment, right? But we're really talking about how we enter the room. The room being life with love, respect and compassion for one another.
if a person's true self is hate, then yeah, let, let them just be. But how can we make things better? sometimes we could be guilty of this, we don't know. So, for example, I went to coffee, oh, couple weeks ago, Matt, a week ago, a week. I went to coffee with some friends.
[00:37:33] FAWN: There were three of us. There is this coffee shop that we all like, but the way they have the furniture is like two people at a time can sit two in a
[00:37:41] MATT: table, two in a table, and two in a table.
[00:37:43] FAWN: And they have these really comfy chairs.
[00:37:44] FAWN: Right. So there's another part of the coffee shop that is not as pretty, doesn't have natural light. It has that ugly fluorescent light and you have tables and chairs. It's all very stiff. And so, because there was going to be three of us, my friend goes, well let, let's go to this room and I never walk into that room.
[00:38:04] FAWN: You know me, I'm very sensitive. Like Right. If I feel it, I'm like, I, I can't be in this room. Mm-hmm. So she's like, okay, she's trying to pick out a table. I'm like, no, no. For the first time I actually said no, because I'll, I'll play, I'll go with whatever the vibe is, but I'm like, you know what? I never go out anymore.
I need to be in a pretty environment. Mm-hmm. So I said, no. She's like, why? I said, it's ugly here.
[00:38:31] FAWN: So she's like, okay, but the, that room only has two chairs at a time. I'm like, yeah, I know, but like, let's just make it work. And I was thinking, we'll just sit in the chairs and like talk across, you know? Mm-hmm. she's like, well, no, that's not gonna do. And so my friend Tracy is Caucasian, you know, and she's very, she has authority about her.
She goes and she starts completely redecorating the room, moving the chairs and the tables, even the lamp, to make it suit the three of us. And I was scared. Yes. And happy at the same time. And I was thinking Tracy, I'm glad you're white and I'm glad I'm with you cuz I. I, I, and I didn't move anything because I was scared to, I let her move everything.
[00:39:23] FAWN: Right. Let,
[00:39:23] MATT: let me guess. You thought somebody'd like pop in and go, Hey, knock it off.
[00:39:27] FAWN: Absolutely. I, I can't, so many times I've been mistreated for just being, not even moving anything, for just being there and being scolded for it. Right. Then I didn't want a part of that. I, I, so she moved everything and we sat and I was thinking to myself, and it.
[00:39:47] FAWN: I didn't wanna say it out loud cuz I don't know what she would've thought of me, but I was thinking, Tracy, I'm so happy I'm with you and you're white, just happy. And so we, we sat there and it was a lovely time. And then when we were done, we moved everything back exactly the way it was
[00:40:07] FAWN: Okay, so yesterday you and I go to the same coffee shop, dun, dun, dun. But this time there's. And I'm like, oh my God. There's a group sitting exactly where we were sitting last week. And look, they also rearranged the furniture just like that how we did. So they were there talking, talking, talking. And I could tell they were talking about the injustices of the world.
[00:40:31] FAWN: Like, you know, like something was going on. you and I were in the corner minding our own. we were there for a while and then this group of people, the group of three got up and left, but they didn't move anything back the way it was. Remember? Yes. And I was like, wow, look at that.
[00:40:50] FAWN: They didn't even move
[00:40:52] MATT: it back. And it, it blocked. It wasn't comfortable. It wasn't, it didn't look natural
[00:40:57] FAWN: like it was, they left the room ugly. They left
[00:41:00] MATT: the room
[00:41:01] FAWN: ugly. And so we went and put all the stuff back.
[00:41:05] MATT: Well, Yes, we did. We
[00:41:08] FAWN: did. There's no, well about it. We, we went and put everything back and then we took those seats.
[00:41:13] FAWN: Heyo!, because the two, it was just the two of us. But we were talking about, isn't it interesting how people assume that the world is to serve them like you? What were you saying yesterday at the library? What happened?
[00:41:29] MATT: Right. Yeah, couple days ago I was at the library and you know, the kids were doing something at the library, so I just hang out at the library.
[00:41:36] MATT: Right.
[00:41:37] FAWN: Okay. To preface, this is such a beautiful library. It is. And it's beautiful also because of the librarians and who work there. They take such care
[00:41:46] MATT: and they're, they're trying so hard to be a good citizen in the community, frankly.
[00:41:51] FAWN: They take care of all these crazy little preteens and teens that go in there, they, and show their butts.
[00:41:59] FAWN: They, the kids show their butts. Yes. Meaning that they're misbehaving quite a bit. Um, but these librarians make sure that these kids have snacks. They're comfortable. It's seriously like a beautiful, they're
[00:42:14] MATT: organizing good stuff. There's a video game console for to check out. It's
[00:42:18] FAWN: like having a beautiful home to be in, but like, my goodness, they're, they're literally like moms cuz they're all women.
[00:42:30] FAWN: Going around and beautifying the whole space and making sure everyone is mentally okay, that everyone's having a good time, that everybody needs, you know, that they're comfortable, that they're fed, there's food. I mean, it's a, it's remarkable. So
[00:42:47] MATT: I wander in. And I had a meeting for work I had to do and they have wifi, so that's cool.
[00:42:53] MATT: But I was looking for a quiet little nook to like, you know, take my call cuz I would have to talk and whatnot. And, and you were there with our kids. They had a lovely conference room that wasn't being used. So I went to the reference desk and I'm like, Hey, yes, this reference can I, can I use this conference room?
[00:43:09] MATT: It's a little tiny one, not a big deal. And the woman looked at me a little puzzled, and then she looked up the schedule, she said it, yes, it is free. I'm like, can I have it until, you know, three 30 or whatever it was? And she said, sure, fine. So, I used it, it was great because I could talk as loud as I wanted cuz there was a door.
[00:43:27] MATT: And when I left I went to her and I was like, okay, I'm done. Because I'm thinking, are you gonna want to look at the room and make sure I didn't trash it anything? And she looked at me even more puzzled and she was like, okay, thank you. I'll, I'll sign you out. And I knew for sure nothing was gonna happen.
[00:43:42] MATT: It's just like, you know, barely had my name in there and doesn't care. it just goes to show how other people just kind of treat it as, a certain element of privilege.
[00:43:52] MATT: So I go parachute from that, and then I find a nice seat. I'm like chilling, waiting for my kids to be done with whatever it is they're doing at the library. And I'm there for a minute and then I look to the side and a little down and, and somebody had not one, but two energy drinks and they left them there.
[00:44:10] MATT: They left the
[00:44:10] FAWN: empties there. I notice that. I notice that all the time people leave their trash e on the street, not just at the library, everywhere. People just treat the world. There are other people there to clean up after them. Right.
[00:44:25] MATT: And in point of fact, guess what it is? The library. Yes. Somebody will clean up after you, but,
[00:44:30] FAWN: but they shouldn't.
[00:44:30] FAWN: That's not their job.
[00:44:31] MATT: That's, that's
[00:44:32] FAWN: so not their job. But if you think about it, corporations do that. Yes. Very much people do that. Yep. I think if we realize that we're showing our true selves, they're showing their true. That they expect that every, everyone else is lesser than animals are lesser than they are.
[00:44:52] FAWN: They're just there to be consumed. You know, thinking as a vegan, right? You know how like when you are a vegan for a while and you always have to go to restaurants or you look around, you're really amazed by how people treat animals how they're appalled if anything on the menu doesn't have some meat in it or,
or knowing that all these animals are mistreated, that we're mistreating the environment.
[00:45:21] FAWN: Okay, now I'm getting on a soapbox. Yeah. Somebody's on the soapbox, And by the way, for the. I picked up the empties, I put 'em in the recycle bin. because you know what? And I don't know if I did it cause I so respect the library and it's such a beautiful place.
[00:45:36] MATT: Or because I'm a good host, so I'm struggling with that a little bit too. I'm really, yeah. I'm really trying to feel through, you know, did I truly, I did. Did it feel like I channeled my inner David Sedaris or didn't it?
[00:45:51] FAWN: Whatever it is, I think that we should concentrate on taking care of our space and realizing in what ways we are showing our true selves the good, the bad, and the ugly, all of it;
[00:46:04] FAWN: being conscious of it. And I think that's a great step to realizing how we're showing up for friendship, how we're showing up in the world, how we are creating our worlds is to look at that and to notice that everybody feels lesser than, I think everyone is being treated that they are lesser than.
[00:46:22] FAWN: And I think that that's what causes a lot of fighting. I think that's what's happening in the United States because everyone has pain. Everyone has experienced hardship, and I think the trouble is feeling like you are the only one. You're not the only one in pain.
[00:46:41] FAWN: Our friends listen. I know you've been hurt. I know that you've been treated badly. It's hard to get yourself out there in ways. I mean, even the people that show their ugly, it's because they have experienced pain that they don't even realize how they're affecting other people. that's their bad, it's their bad and they're not even conscious of it.
[00:47:02] FAWN: But if we can be mindful of what we're touching and how we're touching other people, be mindful of our words. Be mindful of what you're face is doing. if you go to a movie with me and I'm really loving the movie, I look like I'm not enjoying it at all.
[00:47:20] MATT: You look like angry or bored,
[00:47:21] FAWN: but inside.
[00:47:23] FAWN: I'm like, oh my God, I can't, oh,
[00:47:26] MATT: I don't wanna miss anything. I need to focus. Right?
[00:47:28] FAWN: I'm having such a good time, but I didn't realize this until I was dating Matt. He's like, wow, you looked really angry and bored. I'm like, oh I love that. Oh, it was so the opposite. But see, I, I had to realize what my face was actually doing, so I had to, I don't know.
[00:47:45] FAWN: I had to be mindful of that. When I'm with someone else, I'm like, oh, okay. What is my face doing So that's it. Wow. This episode went, I just wanted to talk for 30 minutes, but here we are. Here you are. Uh, that's it guys. Do you wanna add something? You we're gonna say something? I
[00:48:01] MATT: was, oh my goodness.
[00:48:03] MATT: Yes. Um, you know, pay attention to your inner Popeye. You know, you are who you are. And realize that you're beautiful, realize that you're strong and realize that you're worth it. I don't like how
[00:48:15] FAWN: you said you are what you are. It's like, oh, well, you're a piece of crap. You are what you are. No. Oh my goodness.
[00:48:21] FAWN: That's how I, I just heard it. Oh dear. I know that's
[00:48:24] MATT: not what you got. Please see it as, as a very happy, but also happy tall light-filled everything.
[00:48:30] FAWN: But what if that Karen is listening to this and you're saying to her, well, you are what you are. It's okay. No, but for gosh
[00:48:37] MATT: darn it, be a good host.
[00:48:40] MATT: There you go.
[00:48:41] FAWN: I don't know. You know what? No, no. Karens are listening to this, so whenever and for those in other countries, I didn't know what a Karen was until a few years ago. It's this certain person in society who has the power, right? Self-righteous. Self-righteous person. What's the other word we used to have?
[00:49:02] FAWN: Entitled? Entitled, oh my God. Anyway. We're not alone guys. and remember what I told you about the shame. I think that's when people treat you as less than they succeed when you start feeling shame, don't, just don't. You are valuable. You are of great value. You're amazing and beautiful, and you're a friend of ours.
[00:49:31] FAWN: We love you so much. Thanks for listening, guys. Talk to you in a few days. Be well. Have a beautiful every day. Talk to you later.
